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[Timewilltell]

Respect Mary, whilst we can all advise as to what is or isn’t legally correct ultimately only you can decide what you in your life is good for you.
advice is only that, we all choose what advice we will follow or reject.
so I will wish you all the best with what ever you choose.

[Guest]

marylikes

You must do what feels right for you, obviously. You say you do not want to go through a court process, yet on another thread you are gearing up to take Santander to court. I just wonder which of these two processes would be the more difficult.

Let get this out the way................ i've been to court before. Niddy done a post on it or a blog............... " a day in court from a users perspective". Was about 10 years ago, it was what i wrote at the time. I'm not intimidated by a court or its procedures. I'm a confident speaker, maybe too much so. To answer your question, from my perspective it boils down to knowing or feeling if you are right. I would find it very difficult to argue i did not owe the money to AG, based on the fact i knew they where the creditor (in whatever capacity) and i've been paying it for last 12 years. I've no idea what a cost would be to defend a court action if it did arise. But if i did lose it is more cost for me. I can't afford that cost. £10 or £20 i can afford, well actually its £10 !!

You mentioned me "gearing up to take Santander to court"? Well nothing is difficult if you are confident or are right, or correct. As regards my Santander issue, it started out as a query and infact its became an obsession of mine. My gut feeling was what they done was wrong.With research, and maybe your help i have identified it is wrong. So i don't envisage my Santander issue as a difficult issue. My Santander issue is an expensive one to bring to court. But a quick do of maths tells me its more doable than messing about with ag.

[Roger]

Let get this out the way................ i've been to court before. Niddy done a post on it or a blog............... " a day in court from a users perspective". Was about 10 years ago, it was what i wrote at the time. I'm not intimidated by a court or its procedures. I'm a confident speaker, maybe too much so. To answer your question, from my perspective it boils down to knowing or feeling if you are right. I would find it very difficult to argue i did not owe the money to AG, based on the fact i knew they where the creditor (in whatever capacity) and i've been paying it for last 12 years. I've no idea what a cost would be to defend a court action if it did arise. But if i did lose it is more cost for me. I can't afford that cost. £10 or £20 i can afford, well actually its £10 !!

You mentioned me "gearing up to take Santander to court"? Well nothing is difficult if you are confident or are right, or correct. As regards my Santander issue, it started out as a query and infact its became an obsession of mine. My gut feeling was what they done was wrong.With research, and maybe your help i have identified it is wrong. So i don't envisage my Santander issue as a difficult issue. My Santander issue is an expensive one to bring to court. But a quick do of maths tells me its more doable than messing about with ag.

Banks create Money its called Fiat Money (".. inconvertible money made legal tender by a government decree...") This money is recognised and accounted for in government figures. Now when Debt is written off the government figures are reduced accordingly. So when a Bad Debt is written off and Tax relief is permitted against that Debt, that Debt no longer exists in government figures.

The Banks recognise that these DEBTS are uncollectable and stop asking you for repayment. Then comes the chancers called DBA'S.
The DBA's purchased Debts that do not exist in government figures. They are purchased for pennies in the pound.
Now why can't you purchase that Debt for pennies in the pound?

One thing to acknowledge that you owe a Debt to a Bank/Lender! But the Debt no longer exist once this has been written OFF?
If you owe anyone money its to the TAX PAYER.
All Bank Debts are a matter of Banking RISK aren't they! This is especially True of UNSECURED Debt! The high Interest charges for UNSECURED Credit Cards borrowing is to cover this RISK.

So you do not OWE AG anything because they never LENT you any Money did they! Neither are these DBA's DEBT purchases reported to or accounted for in government figures because they do NOT exist,
That's a false conscience perspective which is played on by these scavengers.

As for a CCJ as you well know the opportunity to negotiate prior to Judgement always exist. I would consider a £1 per month Court Order a WIN against these scavengers.

[Pat]

May I say Pat, in some circumstances you may well be correct […]

perhaps in this instance an apology to Roger might be in order?

I do not think any apology is due. Perhaps a little more understanding and compassion is called for from Roger (and sometimes yourself). I feel the lecturing and rants are probably putting people off coming here which is a dreadful shame as this used to be a wonderful resource.

There is no one size fits all and yes I know DCAs aim to intimidate and as Mary I think quite rightly points out, what happens if AGG sell the debt to someone who can bring a claim?

It is also worth remembering that not everyone can actually afford to engage a lawyer and costs awards are not guaranteed even of you win although I am not saying an opinion is not worth getting but even a reasonable knowledgable and articulate person may find the thought of unrepresented court rather terrifying.

AAD used to be fun and informative

[Roger]

I do not think any apology is due. Perhaps a little more understanding and compassion is called for from Roger (and sometimes yourself). I feel the lecturing and rants are probably putting people off coming here which is a dreadful shame as this used to be a wonderful resource.

There is no one size fits all and yes I know DCAs aim to intimidate and as Mary I think quite rightly points out, what happens if AGG sell the debt to someone who can bring a claim?

It is also worth remembering that not everyone can actually afford to engage a lawyer and costs awards are not guaranteed even of you win although I am not saying an opinion is not worth getting but even a reasonable knowledgable and articulate person may find the thought of unrepresented court rather terrifying.

AAD used to be fun and informative

Pat
I appreciate your comments and yes understand exactly what you are saying. Before coming to AAD I approached my Debts with precisely the same sense of values.

BUT everything has changed.

DCA's are major global groups. Their intent is to purchase tranches off debts that for whatever reason have become Unrepayable from the major Banks and Lenders. Maximise means more than just the face value of the Debt and more and more charges (and growing outstanding interest) if possible on assets!
In this Case marylikes different posts reveal she is a excellent target for precisely a Greedy and agressive DCA.

At the same time tactics and current Case Law have changed considerably in the last what 2 years.
AAD and the advice suggested has needed to change.
This change is because of the Aggression of DCA's

Right now facing an acknowledged global recession, rises prices for ESSENTIALS means recognising where OUR priority's lie. Inflation what 8% to 10% and almost no increase in income! These UNSECURED debts and a growing AGRESSION of these DCA's means we have to protect OURSELVES.

The best protection is guess what SILENCE and a good uptodate DIARY because the DCA's are only given very minimium information of the DEBTS they have purchased.

The evidence of Ping Pong correspondence is giving the DCA the knowledge to build and harden their CASE against you and maximise the DCA's profits.

Sometimes spelling out the RISKS and DANGERS especially to a Homeowner need to be forcefully spelt out.

[Timewilltell]

Pat prior to coming to AAD I was doing exactly what marylikes is doing, making nominal gesture of payment, I must admit the thought of paying them until I was 120 peeved me slightly, I would like sometime for MY life.

it has taken me years of research, posts and listening and reading from those more experienced to gain the understanding that I have today. Whilst I do not know everything I know enough for me. There have been some DCA’s that I too was worried about, however the more you gain understanding the easier it becomes to see what is exactly going on here with these Debts and the murky world of the purchasers.
There is a time for compassion and empathy and I do understand this, however there has too come a time when people wake up and smell the coffee to coin a phrase. People who come here come looking for an answer, a way out of the financial stooper they have found themselves in.
What coming to AAD teaches is that these companies are no respecter of person, so will follow the same approach to each and all, in the hope that we buckle and pay, being here we learn how to play their game so that we can deal with our life circumstances and take back the control.
It would also appear that by using the tried and tested methods many of the more dubious DCA’s will back down as they know they are beat. Many of the others will also back off once they are aware that you know the law but others will just try their luck.

ultimately we on here that have some experience and or knowledge can only speak of our own experiences and any poster asking questions must accept this and make a decision which suits themselves, but we have have to acknowledge that just because a decision is made doesn’t necessarily mean it is correct. Similarly for any advice given.

[Pat]

Hi both
I am glad you see, to some extent, what I am trying to say. Sometimes people are struggling to stay afloat and battling a dca may be one step too far, so many balls to juggle. If we can help keep someone afloat and a dca at arms length so much the better.

Once you go down the UE route the barrage of letters and phone calls can seem totally overwhelming and while they slow down in the end, for some it may be too much- so a DMP for a while makes sense. It certainly helped the person who referred me to get things together and they are now debt free.

Roger, if I may, your rants with mixed cases appear JUST that- rants. Be nice, be fun, be respectful. Ask don’t tell , explain why a diary is helpful , imo it helps posters get advice and opinions , it does not help them beat the creditors. Surely that is done by organisation and filing , I can find every letter sent and received not just an entry in a spreadsheet. If I sent a SAR and a reconstructed DN arrived I would know it was reconstructed and why because I would have the original. Ok I might not tell a court that should it come to it but I would know. That would give me confidence.

It is the little wins we make, people respond to carrots better than sticks. Personally I would try to encourage Mary to stop paying but I do not know all the circumstances. If you rent privately having a CCJ or even a default can be problematic. Some employers do credit checks and deem you to be a risk. Some potential relationships might deem you a risk if you want to move in together, I know that one.

Yes there has been some new case law but maybe less than we think. I believe one showed a DN was necessary (Doyle v PRA?) but others are not binding and only persuasive. Judges are funny beasts, some are kind and compassionate and believe in the law, others think all debtors should be thrown in jail. However good a lawyer is, there is no guarantee.

The mantra I go by is avoid court at almost all costs, as an aside I read somewhere of a Debt purchaser refusing mediation , a CCJ or nothing- that ended in tears.

I am debt free now with the odd fly like a new default being registered recently but I know how to get rid of that as I had an old copy of my credit report.

sorry for the long post. I just wanted to explain my reasoning.

[Roger]

Pat
I understand completely. BUT Paying them doesn't mean that they can't or won't issue a CLAIM does it!

The problem is that there has been a change and especially of tactics on AAD. Remember DCA's don't have full information on the Debts they BUY.
It is for the Claimant to prove their CASE.

Ping Pong communications alerts them to issues of which perhaps they are NOT aware. Destroying your DEFENCE by disclosure.

I hope you can see that all that is being suggested is building up a Diary that could assist you should you need to build a DEFENCE. The better the Diary the better the advice the better the Decisions.

But SILENCE really is GOLDEN.

If negotiating a repayment be aware that this doesn't mean they can't or won't SUE!
You also have to be aware of the CURRENT Economic facts that ESSENTIAL COSTS are extremely hard to predict. We know for instance that Gas and Elec are rising again in OCTOBER

The Government has given payments towards Our ESSENTIAL LIVING COSTS. This money isn't for DCA's and the Bad Debts they have invested in.

How can you construct an Income & Expenditure using current Costs when you know these are changing almost Daily.
It should be obvious that committing to any payment even say a reduction from £20 to £10 is almost certain to be out of date within what months!

Why offer anything, on the contrary tell them you and the COUNTRY can't actually today say what surplus monies you may or may not have. Send them a £1 per month.

There is amply evidence of Food shortages, Rising fuel and travel Costs.

Now £1 won't cover the DCA's costs will it!

Remember only a COURT can make you complete and Income & Expenditure FORM and hence a determinate of Surplus Monies if Any.

No point really in saying any more.

[The Tech Clerk]

subject is tending to take over essential advice to others so I suggest keep to main theme of each case and not over-point items of description (specific) argument. our system been there so many years and generally is the right one to follow, but it is the individual who finally decides which ever way but which, our time is precious in helping others (volunteers):- if peeps need to go a different way than suggested up to them, but I would just ask them use the diary and not pages of script to no avail arguments or translate comments in different forms. This one upmanship is not useful and must come to an end.

get back to diaries and if you circumnavigate the system just update as some will/may work but keeping us updated may be a learning cycle.

[Guest]

Ok drydens turned up the screw with a pre action letter today. Ive answered them, made an offer of less than i was paying Capquest. Said a few other things as regards their clients elegibility to make a legal claim, or rather ...enforce the debt through a court. Lets see what that brings me.

So, like i said.............. i contacted Dydens through their website (via email) on 22nd. They aim to reply in 72 hours. No reply to date, i'll keep you posted. Anyone fancy starting a go fund me page ? For me ?

[Guest]

Been away for a few days visiting family. Came back yesterday to the dreaded letter on the mat. They've accepted my circumstances and finances and accepted my offer. Thats all that stress and anxiety gone in one swoop, and an affordable payment. I'm happy with the result. Cheers.

[Roger]

Been away for a few days visiting family. Came back yesterday to the dreaded letter on the mat. They've accepted my circumstances and finances and accepted my offer. Thats all that stress and anxiety gone in one swoop, and an affordable payment. I'm happy with the result. Cheers.

marylikes Its affordable on old figures but will it still be by October when the fuel costs are factored to rise again. Remember this isn't just me saying so. Its the Bank Of England, Treasury etc..

I wish you well personally I would send £1 per month and copy of the latest Economist

[Timewilltell]

As long as it works for you Mary then crack on girl!

[The Tech Clerk]

at the end of the day you are important and if fits situation then that is it, you happy thats all matters.