The Dark Clouds Are Gathering

[BBoo]

Re: The Dark Clouds Are Gathering

The reason that was asked was that pre April 2007, many agreements were unenforceable at law, so there was a chance yours could have fallen into this category. It looks as though they don't.

Personally, and I've said this to you before elsewhere, your level of personal debt really is not an issue here. The real problem is the business lease. If there was a way to get that resolved, it would make a huge difference to your situation.

[Admax]

Re: The Dark Clouds Are Gathering

Hi BBoo

The business lease is a strange one. On the one hand, it is no different to a personal debt. The only real difference is that the debt changes daily.

My current paid up rent period finishes on 8th May. On the 9th May I'll be in arrears with one days rent. On the 10th with two days rent etc. If the landlord then manages to lease the property out on 11th May, he can't then ask for more rent arrears whilst the new tenant is paying.

But whatever the circumstances, I don't see how it isn't just another personal debt, all be it a variable one...

[BBoo]

Re: The Dark Clouds Are Gathering

Hi BBoo

The business lease is a strange one. On the one hand, it is no different to a personal debt. The only real difference is that the debt changes daily.

My current paid up rent period finishes on 8th May. On the 9th May I'll be in arrears with one days rent. On the 10th with two days rent etc. If the landlord then manages to lease the property out on 11th May, he can't then ask for more rent arrears whilst the new tenant is paying.

But whatever the circumstances, I don't see how it isn't just another personal debt, all be it a variable one...

The reason I look at it differently is that while I agree with what you're saying, the landlord could release you from it at any time. From what you have said previously, you believe this to be unlikely, but technically he could. Had you not been guarantor for the lease, it would not have been your debt, so in a way it is inherited by you because the business is closing. I don't know if that makes sense.

Either way, it has to be addressed - you're right about that. What happens about NDR, electricity, gas etc... when you fall into arrears? Are they covered by the Limited Liability or will they still fall to you?

[SXGuy]

Re: The Dark Clouds Are Gathering

Utilities should all fall under the ltd company, so shouldnt be any personal liability.

Lease is def the big issue here, if you havent done so already, check the terms because some include a "give the keys back" clause.

You would owe what you have missed up to that point, but the debt would not continue to rise.

Unoccupied Non domestic rates would apply at that point but that should also fall under the company liability.

[BBoo]

Re: The Dark Clouds Are Gathering

I can say on his behalf that the lease has already been thoroughly checked, and sadly there is no get out clause in it.

[Admax]

Re: The Dark Clouds Are Gathering

What happens about NDR, electricity, gas etc... when you fall into arrears? Are they covered by the Limited Liability or will they still fall to you?

I assume when I inform the Council and utilities that I will be vacating the premises on 8th May, my liabilities will end. I don't think it's any different to moving home.

There aren't presently any arrears with NDR or utilities and there won't be any on the day I leave, so I'd hope that would be the end of it.

I'm not a guarantor on any of those things, so even if there was an issue then yes I believe I would be covered by Limited Liability.

[Never-In-Doubt]

Re: The Dark Clouds Are Gathering

If there is no break clause then other than assigning the property yourself (i.e. sublet it) you may be worth speaking to the actual landlord....

Not much help I know, but an awful position to be in cos ultimately you'll be liable for the remainder of the term

[Admax]

Re: The Dark Clouds Are Gathering

If there is no break clause then other than assigning the property yourself (i.e. sublet it) you may be worth speaking to the actual landlord....

Not much help I know, but an awful position to be in cos ultimately you'll be liable for the remainder of the term

Thanks for the suggestion.

Unfortunately, no break clause that I'm aware of.

I have only spoken to the landlord twice in the past seven years and on the second occasion if it were not for the intervention of my wife, I would now be serving a very long prison sentence.

In addition to this, the landlord lives abroad and refuses to give me his address. He also failed to tell me that his solicitor had died a couple of years ago and it was only through some rather lengthy detective work on my part that I found out who was now representing him. Though I'm now beginning to doubt I've got that right as his solicitor has so far declined to respond to my two letters and a phone call to the solicitors in question have not been very conclusive. Basically I was told by the receptionist, who I can't seem to circumnavigate, that she "isn't sure whether they represent the landlord or not, but it may be a Mr xxxxx I need to write to as he generally deals with things relating to commercial property issues"

I desperately need some legal advice on this issue, but have no money to pay for it and I'm not eligible to free legal advice until I start claiming benefits. By that time it may be to late. I need to know now whether my position is better if I return the keys to the premises when my current rent period runs out or whether to hold on to them and make the landlord go through the court system. I know the first option seems the sensible one, but it may be that if I stay in situ and don't pay rent then I would be in breach of my lease and that may mean the lease becomes null and void. Of course only a solicitor can answer that question for me.

[Admax]

Re: The Dark Clouds Are Gathering

Just to add to my woes (now there's a suprise). It now transpires that as the tenant of the property, I will also be responsible for the business rates until such time as I'm no longer the tenant.

Now that wouldn't be such a bad thing if there were no rates to pay on an empty commercial property. Unfortunately, the self serving pigs that call themselves our Government, decide a short while ago that rates would only be rated at 0% for the first three months and then would revert to 100% after three months.

So if anyone out there has a shit load of debts they would like to get rid of, just stick them in my name. I seem to acquire at least one new debt a day, so a few thousand more 'aint gonna make any difference now.

The fight hasn't even begun and I've lost the stomach for it.

[BBoo]

Re: The Dark Clouds Are Gathering

There are a few places you can go to try to get legal advice:

Law Centres Law Centres if there is one near you.

The Bar Pro Bono Unit The Bar Pro Bono Unit: Free Legal Advice and Representation

Can't Afford A Lawyer About Us - Can't Afford a Lawyer - free and affordable legal help and resources I don't know this company, but looks OK and above board on Google, but treat with caution.

or the Bankruptcy Association, whose reference I have already supplied you with who I believe, for £50 give £1500 of legal representation and advice

Hope this helps

[Admax]

Re: The Dark Clouds Are Gathering

Morning BBoo, how you doing?

I will need to explore the Bankruptcy Association idea further. My understanding is the fee is £150 (not a lot I know, but it's a fortune when you're skint) and I suspect they only advise on issues relating to bankruptcy.

I think I mentioned before there were no Law Centres close by, though maybe I need to make the effort and travel the 100 miles to the nearest one.

I'll have a look at your other link and see what they're about.

Thanks for your suggestions...

[philnicandamy]

Re: The Dark Clouds Are Gathering

just a thought....have you spoke to someone at BDL?

http://www.bdl.org.uk/

[Admax]

Re: The Dark Clouds Are Gathering

just a thought....have you spoke to someone at BDL?

http://www.bdl.org.uk/

Hi

Yeah I've been speaking to them for a couple of months. They've been helpful in many respects, but when it comes to things like going through a lease with a fine toothpick, they don't provide such a service. They are very good at providing information on company law etc as it applies to everyone, but not so good when specifics are needed.

They can tell me the consequences of my situation, but I already know that.

However, I would like to add they they are a very useful and knowledgeable charity and I wouldn't hesitate recommending them to anyone.

[Admax]

Re: The Dark Clouds Are Gathering

My wife has just suggested we move into our holiday home in France and never return... Would this be a solution?

[BBoo]

Re: The Dark Clouds Are Gathering

Admax,

I mentioned this to you ages ago, but you may have forgotten (as I had about telling you about Law Centres lol), if you're able to scan your lease and e-mail it to me, I can get a barrister to go through it at no cost to you.