Full and Final settlement

[Angry Cat]

Re: Full and Final settlement

sorry here we go again whats a short settlement?

It is when you pay the amount agreed under a short settlement and then they sell the remaining debt to another DCA.

mrs m, you need to check your paperwork!

Apologies, if I have confused you.

[mrs_m]

Re: Full and Final settlement

No although i cant find the letter it deffinately stated full and final at the reduced rate of 74 pounds x Lol if i had kep me papers i would be able to tell all im sure its here and will turn up in 2 years time lol

[Angry Cat]

Re: Full and Final settlement

At the reduced rate of £74!

Hopefully, you will be able to find the letter?

[mrs_m]

Re: Full and Final settlement

Yeah its not a big deal really but knowing full well ive paid it and it still shows im in debt is annoying ....ah well

[Angry Cat]

Re: Full and Final settlement

Yeah its not a big deal really but knowing full well ive paid it and it still shows im in debt is annoying ....ah well

Your concern is valid mrs m, why not gather all your information and then make a formal complaint to the ICO?

[mrs_m]

Re: Full and Final settlement

Im thinking I will contact them again and ask for the letter again just for my records see how I go

[Angry Cat]

Re: Full and Final settlement

Im thinking I will contact them again and ask for the letter again just for my records see how I go

You are legally entitled under the Data Protection Act 1998 to make a 'Subject Access Request'.
Request any and all historic data that relates to the account in question.

The statutory fee payable for this request is £10;
mark your payment: SAR Stat. Fee, Only.

Send the (short) letter by Recorded Delivery;
keep a copy and keep a copy of the postal order payment.

The above advice will provide you with all the information that you require for your records.

[garlok]

Re: Full and Final settlement

Hi All I have just read this thread through, sorry mrs M.

If I may be so bold as to make comment for anyone else reading through in the future. This is a classic case of never dealing with this on the telephone. DCAs do tell lies as do OCs. I know I keep banging this drum but F & fs can never be watertight in the long term unless they are dealt with properly at the outset.

everything in writing.
no telephone discussion.
Terms of F & F laid out specifically in writing by you at the time in writing.
Personally I would only ever use a "third party benefactor" cheque to make the payment and always track it on a daily basis throught the accounts and ask your benefactor to do the same until you can print hard copy proofs before it is lost forever. ( Niddy has a different technique which has equal value).

This is Common Law of Contract not relatively simple Statute Law for example in CCA1974. A very volatile minefield and DCAs expect that you will know nothing of the complexiries and exploit that.

Even when either route is followed and lawyers (another thing) have dealt with it, DCAs will go phishing and try it on.

regards
Garlok

[SaltnVinegar]

Re: Full and Final settlement

Personally I would only ever use a "third party benefactor" cheque to make the payment and always track it on a daily basis throught the accounts and ask your benefactor to do the same until you can print hard copy proofs before it is lost forever. ( Niddy has a different technique which has equal value).

Hi Garlok

As you know F&F offers are something I am considering doing.

Did your solicitors act as your thrid party benefactor?

I was wondering if this would hold more weight than a cheque from a family member or friend?

I know for example that my Shop Direct accounts have been given absolute assignment to Lowells and Capquest so likely to have been bought for pennies.

The fact that Shop Direct bloated the debt by adding charges every month for 6 months until they finally defaulted me significantly added to the overall balance makes me keen to reduce this to close to what it originally was.

Best

SnV

[garlok]

Re: Full and Final settlement

Hi SnV,

I have my take on this complex subject but there are others and before you proceed read up niddy's stuff on ity as well,

Firstly the answer to your question is no, the solicitor acting for you should not be the third party benefactor. The cheque(s) should be written by someone genuinely third party and if a relative definitely not with your name.

Do not endorse the cheque with anything.

Cover all account details and the terms on which it is offered in the covering correspondence and monitor those accounts daily as I said.

As far as I can see from our settlement and the case law studies I did, coupled with the published legal advice given to creditors, once they cash those cheques, then a legally binding agreement with your benefactor is put into place, the agreement is not with you. Much has been made of one case "Fry" but our sols said not relevant. However Lloyd LJ made comments in Stour Valley Builders, which although the case fell against the debtor, which are of particular importance it would seem and that is he made distinction between settlements made between client/creditors direct and those made by "lawyers". The exact implication of that I have not been able to ascertain. Ours cost four legal letters and if significant sums are involved I would always advise professional help.

Hope that helps a bit if not come back and we will open a full discussion on it all for everyone to get their input into it.

regards
Garlok

[caspar]

Re: Full and Final settlement

Brilliant advice as ever Garlok. The only bit I question slightly, and I am the first to admit not having studied it in anything like the detail you have is the advice being given to creditors.

I was of the opinion that if they cashed the cheque, but responded immediately (and I mean within one day!) they could write saying it was being cashed on account.

It is an exceedingly complex area of law, and I would definitely echo your advice about seeking proper, specialist legal advice.

[garlok]

Re: Full and Final settlement

Hi Casp,

The best place to explain this is to go to Gannons London Solicitors ( who represent creditors by the way) it is on their website as per my text on the subject. They make a clear distinction between cheques which come from the debtor itself (what a horrible way of describing an alleged debtor but their words not mine) and cheques which come from third parties. It says quite clearly, if you look disspassionately at it, that although they may cash a debtors cheque "on account" and inform immediately in writing that they have only accepted "on account", they MUST NOT CASH third party cheques. This is why the covering letter must state as such and the creditor in the correspondence must be given the opportunity to return the cheques without cashing them. If you also take a look at Addleshaw Goddard well known to allged debtors fighting their corner you will find a similar scenario. These two are probably the easiest to understand the creditor angle.

Hope that helps to clarify my understanding of the situation.

regards
Garlok

[garlok]

Re: Full and Final settlement

Hi Casp,

This is the relevant bit from Gannons although again this is all a minefield and i must stress all cases stand or fall on their own merits, the multitude of case law back to 1602 does not give a clear black and white picture:-

"Q: I have been sent a cheque for less than I am owed but the letter with it says it is sent "in full and final settlement". Can I cash it and still go after the rest?

A: The short answer to this is that you probably can, if you go about it the right way. The first thing to look at is whether the cheque comes from the debtor itself, or from some other person (e.g. a director, a group company). If it comes from a third party then you must not cash the cheque unless you really are going to accept it in settlement. Doing so would make an agreement with the third party which will be binding on you. "

End quote.

I'm sorry mrs M, we are not wanting to hi jack your thread, we are trying clarify for those following.

Regards
Garlok

[SaltnVinegar]

Re: Full and Final settlement

Apologies to the OP for going off topic but this is obviously something of great interest to many.

I'd like to take Garloks idea that this is opened as a thread or even a topic in its own right and if no one has any objections would the Mods create one and move the appropriate posts from Mrs M's thread to the new one?

Best

SnV

[garlok]

Re: Full and Final settlement

Hi SnV

Yep we are looking into it mate, but it is such vexing subject I think all of us want to get it right so that everyone gets their chance to input their ideas etc.

regards
Garlok