Determining if DFN issued, the date, and importance further to sending for CCA's to creditors

[Florida2020]

I've recently sent off for copies of 14 CCA's with 8 creditors. All [bar one] have been sold on to DCA's. Can anyone please advise how i can find out if and when DFN's have been issued, and when. Also the importance of determining this if I stop paying. Currently, payments are being handled by a debt management org' for almost £400 a month, for nearly 15 years. Hope someone may be able to advise

[Roger]

I've recently sent off for copies of 14 CCA's with 8 creditors. All [bar one] have been sold on to DCA's. Can anyone please advise how i can find out if and when DFN's have been issued, and when. Also the importance of determining this if I stop paying. Currently, payments are being handled by a debt management org' for almost £400 a month, for nearly 15 years. Hope someone may be able to advise

Well in the first instance send a SAR to debt management org. See what if any correspondence has taken place between them and the Creditors/DCA's.
I would delay, for the moment on sending SAR's to Original Creditors until you have had a response/or otherwise to your CCA's.
After 12 days without response these (I assume that template letters were used plus £1 for each debt) will be UE. In which CASE stop paying!

£400 per month = £4,800 per year over 15 years = £72,000
15 years tells me the original debts were latest 2005/6? It also suggests that these nolonger appear on any Credit Reference Reports (6 years).
Sadly your Statute Bar hasn't yet started. This means these won't be Statute Barred until 2026 (2025 if in Scotland).

The AAD proven track route is through a Diary entry for each Debt. I appreciate that there will be gaps in what you can provide, but each Debt is a different Case and no two Cases are the same.

The Diary format is as follows

Use this format for each one >

• Type of account (credit card/loan/overdraft)
• Date commenced
• Approx balance
• Date last paid (approximate date you last made a FULL payment)
• Are you on arrangement or not paying
• Status (default/in arrears/up-to-date)
• Account owner (who is writing to you, a DCA or the lender or a debt purchaser)

When or if you receive CCA's send unredacted copy to:- webmaster@all-about-debt.co.uk for checking refer to this thread

Welcome to AAD

[Warwick65]

Do you have records of any default notices issued? Remember these need to be formal, technically correct S87 default notices. While I understand it is comforting to know if these have been sent may I suggest 1 step at a time. Let's see what the debt purchasers do in response to your CCA requests. It would help if you could start a diary as Roger suggested.

A SAR to the debt management company, as Roger also suggested may be a good idea to make sure the payments have been going to the creditors

There are many reasons why a debt is unenforceable , sometimes they can not produce a copy of the agreement, sometimes , for older debts, the agreement may be incomplete and then we have things such as DN's. There are also other reasons why they can not enforce but they tend to get technical.

As I said, wait for responses (or hopefully not) from your CCA requests.

Meanwhile it would be good for you if you made sure all your paperwork was kept well organised and up to date . I used to file all letters sent and received in date order, I used to scan them as well and keep a copy in a folder on google drive (In electronic format I used to number the file , brief description and date e.g 1- CCA request march 2010, 2- CCA response April 2010 etc etc )

[nightwatch]

Hello and welcome.

could you tell us which debt management org it is please, i am assuming it is one of the free one's

I can understand your reluctance in giving some information, but without it, it will be difficult to give specific help, each debt is different, as is the way different debt purchasers work in trying to convince you to fork out your money, sometimes on a debt that may be unenforceable.

please have a read of my diary to give you an idea of how things work, it is a bit long, 65 pages, but may help you.

https://all-about-debt.co.uk/forum/d...-diary-of-debt

enjoy your evening NW

[Timewilltell]

All I can say is you have nothing to loose but everything to gain in giving the details as requested. You have the debt and have been admirably paying it for a long time, it always remains your choice to do what you prefer with this debt. But remember we on here can offer tried and tested advice and although you divulge what is possibly the most personable of information to yourself, at no time will we know who you are or where you are and the debt owners know of your situation anyhow so your embarrassment will be saved. You are clearly curious as to where you stand with the debts as you’ve already moved for CCA requests, so you have nothing to lose by gaining the knowledge and experience of those well versed in the situation you are in as we have all been where you are and some remain on the journey- myself included.

[Florida2020]

Hi all,
Firstly thank you all ever so much for your advice, guidance, and support. I guess this is something I should have done a long time ago, alas better later than never.

Ok, in the way of an update, the mystery of returned mail has been resolved. PRA wrote back to me enclosing the PO's advising that as a gesture of goodwill they do not charge the £1 fee. They advise that they will contact me asap, but if I have any problems to telephone them. NCO has also returned PO's stating "Your creditor has advised that they no longer require payment for this therefore we are returning it to you. You will receive the credit agreement in due course".

Would it be ok if I cash in the postal orders, or should I keep these with copies of the letters? [I think they're valid for 6 months]

Nightwatch, I'll take your advice and commence a log, probably on a spreadsheet. I think that any DFN's that may have been issued may be in boxes in my attic. It would be a bit of a chore but do any of you think it may be worth the effort to go up and dig around to see if I can locate these? There may also be additional correspondence up there advising when the debts were sold to agents. If so, how important is it that I try to find the DFN's and any additional correspondence?

It may be worth noting that I approached all creditors by telephone a week or so before finding out about this forum and made offers in full and final [circa 30-50%] before stumbling across this forum and having a chance to speak with the lovely Diana on the telephone. It was only then that I realized that I need to go down the request CCA route and contest things. My monthly payments to the debt management company continue at least for the moment.

Looking for any updates on your advice in view of my update above whilst I wait for any response on the CCA requests, and will monitor things on this forum.
Best Regards,
Florida2020

[Warwick65]

So your attic

Just at the moment there is little necessity for going all out searching boxes etc BUT
In the longer term and especially if you think any creditors may be looking at court action then it is important .

There may be mileage in knowing exactly what they have sent for example if you have a non compliant default notice and they pretend to have sent a different one it could be part of a defence. Of course if you have a good one and they say there isn’t one it would be rather silly to tell anyone and that includes someone who might end up representing you if the debt is large. I suppose fortunately lawyers have codes of conduct and can not lie if you see what I mean.

So short answer , add the attic search to your todo list but not the urgent one, unless it helps you feel more settled. Me, I would be up there searching but take my advice because I don’t use it?

And yes Di is fabulous

[nightwatch]

Hi,

Please keep the letters saying they don't require payment for the CCA request, just update each debt post to say payment returned.

Go ahead and cash them if you want.

Please try and find any correspondence and add to you post for each debt, any dates that say when and to whom the debt were sold are an advantage, if you come accross a DFN while up there even better, but I am thinking that they must have been defaulted quite a while ago, put on your Credit reference file and dropped of it now, like ours have. You may find an odd letter saying that a default will be registered with CRA's, so that would give a rough estimate of when it was defaulted.
this is not a rush job, take your time.

Having spoken to Di, you will have been told a little about how things work, re F&F and why it is important to see where you stand legaly, before making any offer's.
they can be like wolves, one sniff of cash and they will be like a pack baying for more,
but I think as you are still paying them, through your DMP you won't have done much harm.

let's see what comes back from your request's and take it from there.

Have a good weekend, NW

[Florida2020]

Thanks guys,
I really appreciate your support and very much valued advice. Things have gone quiet with Cabot and Wescot also acknowledging receipt and advising they are dealing with my request. The only surprising and rather disturbing thing is that Robinson Way [Hoist] have now acknowledged my request, however, they have advised that "In order for us to request the document from our client, we have had to cancel the StepChange arrangement that was in place" None of the other companies that I have written to have said this, and I am now concerned at what will happen in the event of default. As far as i am concerned the arrangement is still in place.

At this stage, would i be advised to approach stepchange to discuss in view of the response from Robinson way?
Also, I agree with Night watches advice to have a look for any DDN's and/or correspondence. Correspondence isn't scattered everywhen but in boxes on the attice so i'll take a look and compile a fie.

Looking forward to any advice and will keep you all updated on here.
Many thanks!

[Roger]

Thanks guys,
I really appreciate your support and very much valued advice. Things have gone quiet with Cabot and Wescot also acknowledging receipt and advising they are dealing with my request. The only surprising and rather disturbing thing is that Robinson Way [Hoist] have now acknowledged my request, however, they have advised that "In order for us to request the document from our client, we have had to cancel the StepChange arrangement that was in place" None of the other companies that I have written to have said this, and I am now concerned at what will happen in the event of default. As far as i am concerned the arrangement is still in place.

At this stage, would i be advised to approach stepchange to discuss in view of the response from Robinson way?
Also, I agree with Night watches advice to have a look for any DDN's and/or correspondence. Correspondence isn't scattered everywhen but in boxes on the attice so i'll take a look and compile a fie.

Looking forward to any advice and will keep you all updated on here.
Many thanks!

??
How can a S.77/78 CCA Request (plus £1) cancel the StepChange arrangement?
Ignore and file. They have acknowledged receipt!

[Colin G Quinn]

Hi all,

With regards to an interpretation as to what is meant by the comment made by Robinson Way, I can probably shed some light on that;

Debt purchasers do not warehouse account documentation and the amount of people who do not choose to dispute an account, assignment or Claim, versus the small amount who do, means original creditors and assignees/debt purchasers do not exchange account documents at the point of assignment for 'economical' purposes. At least economical purposes from their point of view.

Purchasing parties are usually obliged to report the status of accounts to the original creditors, say on a monthly or quarterly basis for instance. That way the original creditor can monitor which accounts they have sold are performing. It also allows them to understand if any accounts they have assigned are in dispute and, if so, if there is any risk to reputation for them.

Furthermore, many original creditors won't release documents to even the party who has purchased the account, unless the account is in dispute and there is a valid reason for doing so from their point of view, i.e. a defence or application to set aside a Judgment received by the assignee.

I imagine that because you are/were paying StepChange, you account was being reported as a 'performing' account and for that reason the assignee won't be able to request documents from the original creditor upon receipt of your CCA request, or that any such request for documents would likely be ignored or at the very least treated as non-urgent. Which it is of course to the assignee who has 12 working days to comply with the request before falling into breach of Section 77/78 of the CCA.

I therefore also imagine that the only option for the assignee, at least from their point of view, is to cancel the StepChange arrangement, at which point your account becomes 'non-performing' and in dispute owing to the CCA request.

The issue of the assignee or a party instructed on their behalf deliberately disabling your ability to make payments raises quite a number of issues however.

In any event, the request has been acknowledged.

[Joanna Connolly Solicitors]

I approached all creditors by telephone a week or so before finding out about this forum and made offers in full and final [circa 30-50%] before stumbling across this forum and having a chance to speak with the lovely Diana on the telephone. It was only then that I realized that I need to go down the request CCA route and contest things.

I tend to have that effect on people

Di

[nightwatch]

I tend to have that effect on people

Di

[Florida2020]

Dear all,
Thank you again for your ongoing support. Can anyone reading this post please advise relating to the response that I have now had from Capital One.

Their letter states
"We enclose a reconstituted copy of your original agreement. Although not required under S78 we have included as part of the reconstituted agreement a scanned copy of the signed signature page of your original agreement. The reconstituted agreement sets out the terms of your agreement and your name and address when you entered into your agreement with Capital One on 2 July 2001. We also enclose a copy of your defaulted agreement; and a statement of account required under S78 which is set out at the end. By providing the information set out above we have complied with our obligation under S78 to provide you with a copy of your executed agreement. It was confirmed by the judgement of His Honour Judge Waksman QC in Carey v HSBC [2009] 3417 (QB) that providing a reconstituted copy of your agreement is compliant with S78 and there is no requirement under the CCA to provide you with a copy of the original signed agreement"

So there we go, a very long-winded response, also in their enclosures I cannot see any form of document that looks like a default notice. Can anyone please advise what the position is relating to this letter i have now had from Capital One?

[Roger]

Dear all,
Thank you again for your ongoing support. Can anyone reading this post please advise relating to the response that I have now had from Capital One.

Their letter states
"We enclose a reconstituted copy of your original agreement. Although not required under S78 we have included as part of the reconstituted agreement a scanned copy of the signed signature page of your original agreement. The reconstituted agreement sets out the terms of your agreement and your name and address when you entered into your agreement with Capital One on 2 July 2001. We also enclose a copy of your defaulted agreement; and a statement of account required under S78 which is set out at the end. By providing the information set out above we have complied with our obligation under S78 to provide you with a copy of your executed agreement. It was confirmed by the judgement of His Honour Judge Waksman QC in Carey v HSBC [2009] 3417 (QB) that providing a reconstituted copy of your agreement is compliant with S78 and there is no requirement under the CCA to provide you with a copy of the original signed agreement"

So there we go, a very long-winded response, also in their enclosures I cannot see any form of document that looks like a default notice. Can anyone please advise what the position is relating to this letter i have now had from Capital One?

My advice is DON'T try to be your own Judge of Capital One's response!
Don't reply or otherwise engage with Capitol One (you are a long way from a CCJ).

CCA 1974 this Act has grown with additions etc.. since that year! Plus a consider amount of legal precedent. Its NOT static so make notes (for your own purposes) but take advantage of this AAD site because there is a wealth of knowledge here!
Don't over think. Your next step is to send a unredacted copy of this paper work to Niddy (webmaster - NOBODY ELSE WILL SEE THIS) for review.

"..When or if you receive CCA's send unredacted copy to:- webmaster@all-about-debt.co.uk for checking refer to this thread .."