Determining if DFN issued, the date, and importance further to sending for CCA's to creditors

[Joanna Connolly Solicitors]

Also upon making a decision for each on how to proceed, would it be a case of writing to each creditor, or just ignore them? As it was July I wrote to them I think I've given sufficient time to respond.

You have indeed given them enough time to respond.

Your s77-79 CCA Requests were sent in July, they haven’t complied within the statutory timeframe so those debts are currently unenforceable. Long may that last.

Di

[Florida2020]

Thanks Diana,
I will be posting again over the next few days

[Florida2020]

Thank's ever so much, I've contacted Niddy, and has looked at 2 of the 4 CCA's received, deeming them unenforceable, in dialogue about having niddy look at the other two. I will be posting over the next few days relating to the other 10 CCA's to which I have had not secured copies since my request in July. I have a spreadsheet, the info from which I will be migrating to a diary to post and monitor things as time goes by as i'm sure many of them will start to wish to engage with me shortly as I have stopped my step change payments this month.

[nightwatch]

I look forward to seeing how we can help you.

enjoy the weekend. NW

[Joanna Connolly Solicitors]

Thanks Diana,
I will be posting again over the next few days

I look forward to any updates on the 10 x CCA Requests which you sent in July but did not get credit agreements sent in response so they would have become unenforceable

Di

[Florida2020]

Hi all,
Re: PRA
Thanks for your responses and ongoing support. Whist Niddy is looking at the 4 agreements in total where CCA's have been provided I am posting copies of responses that I have received where creditors have failed to provide a copy of the CCA. Commencing today the first one is from PRA. In the event of my pdf copy of their letter not being able to be uploaded onto the forum, I have posted a copy of the text of their response dated 08/07/20.

Further to my CCA request, I continued to make regular payments to PRA via step-change, for August, September, and October.
I have not made payments at the beginning of November, or December, and have had not subsequent follow-up contact from PRA since their letter dated 08/07/20.
Have made three further payments after my CCA request I feel that I have given sufficient time for them to respond, and would appreciate any guidance as to what i need to do, if anything at theis stage.

Here's their response, from 08/07:

l am in receipt of your correspondence in relation to the above and have requested the required
information. Until this is received I have placed your account on hold which will cease any further
collections activity until further notice.
As a gesture of goodwill to our customers PRA Group UK Ltd do not charge the £1.00 statutory fee to
carry out this request. I am therefore returning this payment to you.
We will contact you to provide an update as soon as possible but if you have any questions please
telephone us on 0800 877 2772 where an agent will be able to assist you.

[Florida2020]

Hi all,
Moving on to my next one: Robinson Day
Robinson Day has now responded to my CCA request in July of this year. In the event of my pdf copy of their letter not being able to be uploaded onto the forum, I have posted a copy of the text of their response dated 05/10/20.

Further to my CCA request, I continued to make regular payments to Robinson Day via step-change, for August, September, and October.
I have not made payments at the beginning of November, or December, and have had no subsequent follow-up contact from Robinson Day since their letter dated 05/10/20.
Have made three further payments after my CCA request I feel that I have given sufficient time for them to respond, and would appreciate any guidance as to what I need to do if anything at this stage.

Here's their response, from 05/10:

Further to your recent contact in relatlon to your account we have now completed our investigation. Unfortunately, despite our attempts, we have been unable to source the additional information we required from your original creditor to tully resolve your dispute however should we recelve this in the future we will provide it you.
Please find below the information that we currently hold within our records:
* Your account was passed to HOIST FINANCE UK HOLDINGS 2 LIMITED on 01/08/16
The last payment received on your account was for £19.68 on 05/07/16
There has been a total of £1,273.26 pald slnce 01/08/16
Your default date is 26/10/05
Your current outstanding balance is £2,551.18
Your account was opened with the original client on 01/10/99.
As we have been unable to fulfil your information request at this time your account is currently unenforceable therefore any entries regarding this account on your credit file will be removed by Hoist Finance UK. Please allow up to 60 days for this process to be completed.
Where accounts are unenforceable the creditor is unable to take legal action to recover the outstanding balance
however it remains due and the creditor Is entitled to continue collection activity which may include writing to
you and contacting you by telephone.
We would like to remind you that the balance on this account remains outstanding. Please contact us using the details at the top of this letter to discuss your options. We can agree a repayment plan based on your individuai
Circumstances, or agree a discounted settlement amount, helping you to clear this account.
You can also register to manage your account online at www.robway.co.uk - it's simple, fast and allows you to
access your account at a time which suits you:
View your balance and transactions
Make a payment- instalment or in full
Setup or change a payment plan
Setup a Direct Debit
Agree a discount to settle your account
Update your contact details
Peasebe aware that should we be able to provide the information you previously requested in the future, your
account will become enforceable again at that time and we will contact you to inform you of this.
Yours faithfully
Customer

[Joanna Connolly Solicitors]

Robinson Day has now responded to my CCA request in July of this year.

Here's their response, from 05/10:

. . . . Unfortunately, despite our attempts, we have been unable to source the additional information we required from your original creditor to tully resolve your dispute however should we recelve this in the future we will provide it you.

* Your account was passed to HOIST FINANCE UK HOLDINGS 2 LIMITED on 01/08/16

Your default date is 26/10/05

As we have been unable to fulfil your information request at this time your account is currently unenforceable therefore any entries regarding this account on your credit file will be removed by Hoist Finance UK. Please allow up to 60 days for this process to be completed.
Where accounts are unenforceable the creditor is unable to take legal action to recover the outstanding balance

Peasebe aware that should we be able to provide the information you previously requested in the future, your
account will become enforceable again at that time and we will contact you to inform you of this.

Result!

An admission that the debt is unenforceable and they're unable to take legal action. Keep that letter safe.

They say "unfortunately" they have been unable to source the credit agreement - I would say that's their subjective view since it's fortunate for you that their attempts have failed

I note they say they'll remove the entry from your CRA files, but since this account was defaulted in 2005 that should have been removed in 2011 (i.e. 6 years later. or 9 years ago in other words).

And even if they do provide the information in future (which I doubt for this 1999 account) it won't alter the fact that Hoist Finance UK Holdings 2 Limited aren't currently authorised by the FCA to issue legal proceedings as Jo explains here >

Both of these companies are not authorised by the Financial Conduct Authority to exercise the rights of a lender. They rely on the para 55 FSMA 2000 servicing exemption.

Their cases, or their predecessors Hoist Portfolio Holding 2 Limited and Hoist Portfolio Holding 2 Limited, rarely reach trial in cases we are involved with. They have not been successful at trial with us.

We look forward to using the same legal arguments in the future against Hoist which we used against Idem Capital Securities Limited in the recent successful FCA authorisation Appeal where the Circuit Judge found that the para 55 FSMA 2000 servicing exemption did not allow the unauthorised debt purchaser to issue proceedings in the county court.

The Hoist companies also have issues with their assignment process and documentation.

Di

[nightwatch]

Hi F2020,

great news with Robinson way, saying it is UE.
plus I doubt the original owner of the account will still have anything on file, keep that letter safe.

Pra, they have put your account on hold, this means, they have stopped collection of it, TILL, they conveniently forget that they have not complied with your CCA request.
Again keep in a safe place.

while the CCa's are outstanding they cannot enforce through the court's, RW kindly tell you this.
PRA do not.

Both may and will ask for payment's BUT, none need to be made, most letters can be filed away.

Please post on here if you are in any doubt about the wording of any you receive, some can be a tad misleading.

all the best NW

[Joanna Connolly Solicitors]

the first one is from PRA.

I have not made payments at the beginning of November, or December, and have had not subsequent follow-up contact from PRA since their letter dated 08/07/20.

l am in receipt of your correspondence in relation to the above and have requested the required
information. Until this is received I have placed your account on hold which will cease any further
collections activity until further notice.

Who was the original creditor of this debt which was subsequently assigned to PRA and when (what year) was the account opened?

It's been more than five months since you sent your s77-79 CCA Request so hopefully that means they're struggling to comply.

No need for you to do anything at this moment in time.

Di

[Florida2020]

Thank you for your response and ongoing advice and support Diana, and of course everyone else who has chipped in to advise. I apologize for my delay in responding further to a busy Christmas and new year. I hope that everyone's staying safe. The original creditors relating to PRA were Lloyds TSB, and Barclaycard. I'm unsure of the original date that the account was opened, but it would have been earlier than 2005. Could you advise where I now stand regarding PRA?

In way of an update since my last activity on the board:
1) I have engaged with Niddy relating to determining whether copy's of CCA's that I have been sent are enforceable or not, and he has advised all are unenforceable. This is except for two final ones on my list which I am waiting to hear back from him about.

2) I have made no further payment to Stepchange since October 2020

3) Amex' contacted me last week seeking proposals, I agreed to contact them on Wednesday the tenth of this month. I also had a call from NCO Europe who have been acting on there behalf, but I only knew it was them as I dialed 1471 as there was no one on the line. Niddy has previously advised me that the reconstituted CCA provided by them is unenforceable by Amex’s own admission in the cover letter that they can never provide the terms and conditions and so can never comply with Section 78 of the CCA,

Can I ask for the following advice please:
*. Should I contact Stepchange as a courtesy, and if so what do I need to say to them?
*. How should I engage with Amex'?

I will monitor the board for any responses,
Regards Florida 2020

[Joanna Connolly Solicitors]

Thank you for your response and ongoing advice and support Diana

. . . Could you advise where I now stand regarding PRA?

. . . engaged with Niddy relating to determining whether copy's of CCA's that I have been sent are enforceable or not, and he has advised all are unenforceable. This is except for two final ones on my list which I am waiting to hear back from him about.

. . . I have made no further payment to Stepchange since October 2020

. . . Amex' contacted me last week seeking proposals, I agreed to contact them on Wednesday the tenth of this month. . . Niddy has previously advised me that the reconstituted CCA provided by them is [COLOR=#222222][FONT=Arial]unenforceable by Amex’s own admission in the cover letter that they can never provide the terms and conditions and so can never comply with Section 78 of the CCA,

Can I ask for the following advice please:
*. Should I contact Stepchange as a courtesy, and if so what do I need to say to them?
*. How should I engage with Amex'?

This looks like it's all heading in the right direction.

The credit agreements you've received are unenforceable after Niddy has looked at the paperwork, and two others are unenforceable because they've not provided any paperwork.

I don't think you should engage with anyone, least of all Stepchange! Have they been writing to you since you stopped paying last October?

Amex admit their debt is unenforceable so there's little point in talking to them next week since they'll only put pressure on you to pay. If they want to contact you they can write to you.

PRA can write to you as often as they like but you don't need to reply. If you get a Letter of Claim then you can contact me immediately.

Time to change the dynamics of this situation

Di

[Florida2020]

Thanks Diana,
Yes, things are progressing well thanks to you. If I hadn't had that conversation with you I'd still be paying and in a terrible place. I will take your advice and not contact step-change. In the event of them contacting me what would you advise? Finally, how do I head off Amex', do I write advising them not to contact me>? or how do i respond when they undoubtedly may call? I wonder if there would be a scripted response, or tell them to put things in writing then post on here?

If PRA send out a written claim then I'll post on here.
Thanks again for all of your support!

[nightwatch]

HIYA ,

The general Idea is to NOT engage with any of them on the phone, their" highly trained" work force, are trained to get you to pay up, even though the debt is unenforceable (UE), plus they will get you to pay more to them than any of your other accounts.

So if you have caller ID and you know the incoming call is from one of the said company's Ignore or if you can block it. they will soon write to you.

if you do answer the call, DO NOT go through the security questions, tell them everything in writing, If they continue to call we have a letter you can send for harassment,

Post on here BEFORE you reply to any of their letters, you have to learn that they will contain many If's and May's, so you will need help to read between the lines,

If Step change contact you, just thank them for their help, then say you are going to manage the debts yourself. they may try and convince you that they can help you manage them better, but to be honest, if one of them want's to take matters further ie, court, then they won't stop them.

Sorry if this post sounds a bit bossy, but being nice to them won't help you take control back from them, being in debt is not a crime so you should not be hounded for money you can not or need not pay.

any questions just ask, I promise not to bite x

NW.

[Joanna Connolly Solicitors]

Thanks Diana,

Yes, things are progressing well thanks to you. If I hadn't had that conversation with you I'd still be paying and in a terrible place. I will take your advice and not contact step-change. In the event of them contacting me what would you advise?

That would depend on what they say when they contact you, if ever

I also agree with NW about not speaking with Amex. They can always write to you if they have something meaningful to say.

The longer you remain interacting with a creditor or debt purchaser, the further away you're pushing your Statute Barred date.

Di