Proof of how much a debt was sold for?

[Susie]

Re: Proof of how much a debt was sold for?

I do like your idea of the fantasy court, it would certainly make any proceedings interesting if they had bought for a very low cost. I doubt any judges would be brave enough to kick cases out for a good while though thats if they ever did!

I only have one thats definitely been sold on, but I suspect any others now that got sold would be the bargain basement type as well

[garlok]

Re: Proof of how much a debt was sold for?

New World Order does exist! Take a look at current conspiracy theory. However it is definitely not what we would all like.

However frivolity aside malamute, depending on the state of play at the given time, I would always start the negotiations at an F & F offer of 10% and please always remeber that you are not playing with relatively simple Statute Law this is the Common Law of Contract (judge made law). One of the most recent tricks being pulled by creditors is to use terminology similar to that used on you credit reference file for example " partial settlement". Never agree to this it will trip you up later and you will be pursued.

Garlok

[malamute]

Re: Proof of how much a debt was sold for?

New World Order does exist! Take a look at current conspiracy theory. However it is definitely not what we would all like.

However frivolity aside malamute, depending on the state of play at the given time, I would always start the negotiations at an F & F offer of 10% and please always remeber that you are not playing with relatively simple Statute Law this is the Common Law of Contract (judge made law). One of the most recent tricks being pulled by creditors is to use terminology similar to that used on you credit reference file for example " partial settlement". Never agree to this it will trip you up later and you will be pursued.

Garlok

Duly noted - I'll be keeping my diary updated with all negotiations I have when the time comes and will defintiely make sure I have the correct template checked and approved.

Thanks everyone!

[SaltnVinegar]

Re: Proof of how much a debt was sold for?

If you're considering F&F's you should also keep in mind that DCA's are effectively 'sales' machines driven by targets; monthly, quarterly and annual.

You are more likely to achieve a better settlement figure by making an offer close to the end of the financial year, or the end of a quarter, as if they are struggling to hit targets they're more likely to accept.

I intend on putting in F&F's to some of my creditors mid Fed next year which gives them 6 weeks to think about that end of year figure.

Of course, if they've hit target already they may not bite, or, if they are on 'accelerators', figures above target may actually bump up some greedy scrotes bonus so they may be even more likely to accept!

Go in at 10% and work from there. If they refuse your max offer, then wait 6 months and strike near the end of the next financial quarter.

Best
SnV

[garlok]

Re: Proof of how much a debt was sold for?

Thanks SnV thats good thinking.

Garlok

[malamute]

Re: Proof of how much a debt was sold for?

If you're considering F&F's you should also keep in mind that DCA's are effectively 'sales' machines driven by targets; monthly, quarterly and annual.

You are more likely to achieve a better settlement figure by making an offer close to the end of the financial year, or the end of a quarter, as if they are struggling to hit targets they're more likely to accept.

I intend on putting in F&F's to some of my creditors mid Fed next year which gives them 6 weeks to think about that end of year figure.

Of course, if they've hit target already they may not bite, or, if they are on 'accelerators', figures above target may actually bump up some greedy scrotes bonus so they may be even more likely to accept!

Go in at 10% and work from there. If they refuse your max offer, then wait 6 months and strike near the end of the next financial quarter.

Best
SnV

That's really helpful is there a way of finding out their financial year? Or is it a sticky post thingy somewhere (sorry if it is).

Definitely good idea

[SaltnVinegar]

Re: Proof of how much a debt was sold for?

That's really helpful is there a way of finding out their financial year? Or is it a sticky post thingy somewhere (sorry if it is).

Definitely good idea

Its generally April to April though if you want to be sure then you should be able to get hold of a copy of the accounts from companies house.

Looking through their accounts will also give you an idea of their operating costs and you can start to make an educated guess as to what they are buying their 'books' for though its generally hidden in accountancy 'legalese'.

[Susie]

Re: Proof of how much a debt was sold for?

If you're considering F&F's you should also keep in mind that DCA's are effectively 'sales' machines driven by targets; monthly, quarterly and annual.

You are more likely to achieve a better settlement figure by making an offer close to the end of the financial year, or the end of a quarter, as if they are struggling to hit targets they're more likely to accept.

I intend on putting in F&F's to some of my creditors mid Fed next year which gives them 6 weeks to think about that end of year figure.

Of course, if they've hit target already they may not bite, or, if they are on 'accelerators', figures above target may actually bump up some greedy scrotes bonus so they may be even more likely to accept!

Go in at 10% and work from there. If they refuse your max offer, then wait 6 months and strike near the end of the next financial quarter.

Best
SnV

Same thing as I am thinking of doing!! Only one of mine has been sold, but its still worth an offer once a year!!

I wonder if there is there anywhere or anyway we can find out which DCA's are on which sort of target or bonus so we know who is most likely to accept

[charitynjw]

Re: Proof of how much a debt was sold for?

I read somewhere that when offering a F & F, it is advisable to do so via a third party, as acceptance creates a binding contract between the 'owner' & the third party.

[SaltnVinegar]

Re: Proof of how much a debt was sold for?

I read somewhere that when offering a F & F, it is advisable to do so via a third party, as acceptance creates a binding contract between the 'owner' & the third party.

Yes that is generally the consensus.

Garlok has a great deal of knowledge in this area as I believe he had solicitors draw up some F&F deals and still DCA's tried to stiff him over.

Very much a minefield!

[garlok]

Re: Proof of how much a debt was sold for?

Third party cheque is normally the route preferably via a solicitor representing you if you go this way. Not usually recommended on this site or via its templates. In principle you are correct, charity and it was established in the Bracken v billinghurst case which in turn refers to Fletcher Moulton LLJ's rulings in the C of A in the Temple case. Fundamentally the debt is extinguished (note) if the third party cheque(s) are cashed. If it is the debtor's cheque then the debtor MUST be informed immediately that the cheque is taken on account only as per Lloyd LJ, C of A, Stour Valley Builders. 7 days acceptable, 8 weeks not.

"it matters not what the creditor intends but by his words and actions he has led the debtor to believe" et al.

Also refer Cantor Index case ) emphasis on " performance".

Yes Snv, thanks we did have soliciutors deal with the whole thing using third party cheques, yes they cashed them and months later both the OC and their debt collection agency Credit Style pursued us direct. They have both received a nasty rap on the knuckles from our sols and we await their decisionas to whether to issue or not. Sols are happy to let them we might all be a bit richer if they do.

Garlok

[Never-In-Doubt]

Re: Proof of how much a debt was sold for?

I read somewhere that when offering a F & F, it is advisable to do so via a third party, as acceptance creates a binding contract between the 'owner' & the third party.

This same "binding contract" exists regardless who agrees the offer, so long as you get acceptance of your offer agreed using wording you add, then it would form the same basis.

Our F&F template as scattered here mentions case law to bypass them trying to reclaim at a later date, as part of the agreement to settle would mean they agree that (in line with the quoted case law) they accept the deal.

Regards to offers, you always go in at between 5-10% to start with and then have a cut off point, I usually say for a £5k debt, a £500 offer is good to start - BUT it will definitely be declined, so then be prepared to go as high as £2000 for a £5k debt. Doesn't seem much of a saving but it really is when you think about it.... then work the rest to the same level, so a £20k debt would mean a maximum offer ever of around £7k-£8k but obviously you'd start around the £1k-£1500 mark and work up....

Basically an offer is only as good as what you're prepared to pay - the amounts the DCA paid for the debt matters little as some people still make a profit on a loss, basic business accounting - making £2k on a debt that you paid £3k for is still good - the bad version would be if it was a write off or unenforceable so to even get £2k back is a bonus to the DCA. Remember that!

[garlok]

Re: Proof of how much a debt was sold for?

Thanks Niddy.

Much depends on the exact wording of the correspondence and if I compare the templates here with the letters which went from our sols they are very much comparable. With sols dealing as we did they will not bother with getting the agreement, worrying for us lay people, but a day to day occurrence for them. As a layperson dealing with it alone I would never send a cheque from anyone until I had their written agreement to the terms laid down in the offer.

In fact purely from a personal point of view I would not deal with it without professional help if significant sums are involved unless you can afford to "lose" the money on account.

regards
Garlok

[Undercover Elsa]

Re: Proof of how much a debt was sold for?

Interesting!
Garlok - did you pay the money to your Solicitors and then they issued a cheque drawn on their own a/c to the creditor/s, thus the sols being the third party?

Shep xx

[CleverClogs (RIP)]

Re: Proof of how much a debt was sold for?

Sadly there is no way to get this information. If only there were.......

It still frustrates me that the debt can be charged out, but still exist and be sold on, so even if you don't pay, the OC makes money from it. That has to be wrong!

It's worse than that, as not only does the OC make money from the debt by selling/assigning it to a debt collector, the OC will also claim the full value of the debt against taxable profits.