New tenancy problem

[marypoppins]

Re: New tenancy problem

Oops, crossed posts!

Sorry PlanB I edited it several times because I realised I'd missed some points.

No other communication has been by post so why shouldn't they expect it to continue by email?

I take on board what you're saying about me getting involved but someone needs to take her to task and I believe that the only reason she has emailed the lead tenant tonight is because of my call to her and the threat of putting in a dispute to my deposits.

As ALL payments have been processed via the BACS system, then is it unreasonable to expect the deposit to be returned in the same manner?

[marypoppins]

Re: New tenancy problem

See post 96, you advised to put Monday 18th as a deadline to respond by.

[PlanB]

Re: New tenancy problem

See post 96, you advised to put Monday 18th as a deadline to respond by.

That was to pressure on her to focus. You then acknowledged that legally speaking she had 10 days to respond.

Nothing they can do now until the 10 days have elapsed which is annoying but out of their control.

[marypoppins]

Re: New tenancy problem

Roll on Sunday!

[PlanB]

Re: New tenancy problem

No other communication has been by post so why shouldn't they expect it to continue by email?

Because you can't send a cheque by email

[marypoppins]

Re: New tenancy problem

The lead tenant has finally received a cheque with a list of deductions that she has taken.

A total of £650 some receipts have been provided but not all for what is being claimed.

This does include a check out fee of £130 which has to be proven as no signed document has been produced yet. They don't have a problem paying a check out fee but she states that she has their signed agreement of this which was done by the agent who introduced the tenants, they do not have a copy of this and don't remember signing anything but I accept that sometimes these things can be forgotten.

The deductions focus completely on the kitchen and utility area, she claims that the whole area was 'filthy', cupboards, cooker, washer, floors, the lot!

She claims that the work surface had to be replaced because of it rotting due to water being allowed to seep from the taps and also because of deep scratch marks.

They have been accused of putting a tennis ball in the extractor fan!

A few other issues (as far as she is concerned) one of which is replacing a curtain track to the small kitchen window. This was a net cord that would have been no longer than four feet and has charged £35 to replace and fit!

There was an issue with cleaning not being done behind the fridge and freezer but as there was no evidence of them being removed for inspection on occupancy, there is probably little they can argue about this and the 'professional' clean should have done this.

However, they say every picture tells a story so dispute being filed tomorrow with colour photographs showing how clean the kitchen was when they left.

Will update in due course.

[marypoppins]

Re: New tenancy problem

Should the tenants let the LL know that they will be filing a dispute?

[PlanB]

Re: New tenancy problem

Should the tenants let the LL know that they will be filing a dispute?

The Tenants have to dispute it with the Landlord first before they file a dispute with the deposit scheme, and give her a limited time to respond to that dispute. There's a protocol to handling this. Maybe the Lead Tenant (because they're the only person who can do this at the moment) should ring mydeposits and ask their advice on the procedure. Just like a court claim there must be efforts made on both sides to negotiate first. You can't just throw it at the deposit scheme and say "sort this out". Judging by your last post I may be saying this too late.

Everything deducted from the deposit will need to be backed up by receipts and evidence from the Landlord. Everything disputed by the Tenants will need to be backed up by their own evidence.

There are only two things which really matter when deciding the outcome. Firstly the tenancy agreement which spells out what can and can't be charged in a legal contract (e.g. who pays for the check-out etc); and secondly the two inventories for forensic comparison. It's a case of the Check-In vs the Check-Out. It doesn't matter what either the Landlord or the Tenant say, it's what is written down, documented and photographed in those two inventories which will be the Arbitrator's starting point. After that there will be a decision made on what is fair wear and tear, what is damage and what is taking the piss.

I can only reiterate that only the Lead Tenant can do this unless they decide that they do not wish to dispute anything then any of the other Tenants can dispute their own portion. However this may weaken the case of the Tenant who does wish to dispute it because the Arbitrator will wonder why the others agree that they caused damage and not the one challenging the decision.

The only thing on your list which strikes me as blatantly unfair is the replacement of the kitchen work surface. I had a similar issue with a Tenant recently. The wood work surface suffered black watermarks, burns and knife cuts. The Tenant argued that the tap was leaking which caused the stains. I argued that if they'd told me the tap was leaking I would have got the washer changed. They couldn't argue about the burns and knife cuts since that was their fault. The resolution was to have the wood work surface sanded down which they paid for. Replacing it would have been a bloody cheek.

If the extractor fan was damaged as a result of a tennis ball then that would be their fault unless they can prove there was a tennis ball in there at the outset. The Landlady would need proof that a tennis ball broke it. Presumably that would have been noted by the contractor who fixed or replaced the extractor fan.

[PlanB]

Re: New tenancy problem

Should the tenants let the LL know that they will be filing a dispute?

See my previous post. They need to respond to the Landlord direct before filing a dispute. The Landlord must be given the opportunity to put things right first. I know you're itching to dispute this but the Tenants will look unreasonable if they don't tell her why they disagree with her deductions before charging headlong into a formal dispute.

[marypoppins]

Re: New tenancy problem

Lead tenant has discussed it with MD and they have told them to submit the dispute, it has been prepared between all of them and just needs a few tweaks and documents to be uploaded before its sent.

LL is impossible to speak to (I'm really not joking) all she does is shout and talks over you! She won't respond by email or send a read receipt and then disputes that she's received anything so I guess an email followed up by a letter sent RD to her will suffice.

She had produced a very poor copy of an inventory which is dated 14th Aug (house vacated 31st Jul) and there is no indication who completed it, the inventory fee is mentioned on the agents T & C's and states they are responsible for the fee but no amount is quoted. She says she has a document signed by them all agreeing to the fee so they have asked for a copy, but she hasn't sent it and says it was all agreed with the letting agency who do not appear to have a copy either. The fee isn't in dispute, just the amount and proof that they signed agreeing to it. Its not mentioned on the AST.

Something I did notice was the quote (not a receipt) that she has given them for cleaning the oven/hob is dated on the day they vacated, now bearing in mind the checkout was done late in the afternoon it's strange that she has managed to get a company out, inspect the oven and produce a quote so quickly! They do have good photo's of the hob and interior of this on the day they vacated and it is clean. She also says that the washer interior hadn't been cleaned but again, the photo's clearly show otherwise.

I take your point about the work surface, you can see on the photo's that the sealant had lifted in parts between the tiled wall and the worktop, if the water was wiped away, they would not have had any idea that it was penetrating the board unless there was any sign of water in the cupboard underneath the pics show that it looks ok on top so this will be down to MD decision.

Unfortunately they just don't trust her!

[marypoppins]

Re: New tenancy problem

See my previous post. They need to respond to the Landlord direct before filing a dispute. The Landlord must be given the opportunity to put things right first. I know you're itching to dispute this but the Tenants will look unreasonable if they don't tell her why they disagree with her deductions before charging headlong into a formal dispute.

Agreed!

A letter has been prepared going through the all bullet points individually and stating what and why they consider unreasonable amounts. They will send it recorded post and by email and it gives 7 days to respond, provide receipts that weren't sent and also for a complete and fully legible copy of the inventory she has sent to them.

It will then be submitted if a satisfactory agreement can't be reached.

[PlanB]

Re: New tenancy problem

It will then be submitted if a satisfactory agreement can't be reached.

For what it's worth I think this Landlady is pushing her luck. Mydeposits will have seen it all before. Landlords try to use spurious reasons for upgrading their properties at the unjustifiable expense of outgoing tenants.

Not me of course

[marypoppins]

Re: New tenancy problem

For what it's worth I think this Landlady is pushing her luck. Mydeposits will have seen it all before. Landlords try to use spurious reasons for upgrading their properties at the unjustifiable expense of outgoing tenants.

Not me of course

I hope MD see it for what it is and it come to a fair conclusion.

Having gone through all the paperwork to prepare a draft letter for them, you pick up on things that make you wonder, like the fact that the bill for the fan wasn't dated until 19th Aug, 20 days after they vacated, they could argue that it was working on vacating as she didn't check it so how can she prove anything?

There's a bill from the builders for work they did in the kitchen for the worktop but also for moving gas pipes and other things which all would have been behind the cooker so they may have had to remove the work top in order to complete the job.

The total bill is for £700, £375 of which is 2.5 days labour and she is trying to charge them £200 (£150 which is labour), the cost of the work top was only £30 (she got is discounted due to damage) then £21 for sealant and hoses. Where the hell are hoses required?

I'm off to Spain for a couple of weeks now, thankyou PlanB for your help through this, I hope I will have something positive to report on my return!

[PlanB]

Re: New tenancy problem

I'm almost too nervous to ask for an update on this

[cymruambyth]

Re: New tenancy problem