New tenancy problem

[marypoppins]

Re: New tenancy problem

Finally received a reply!

She states that after she was repeatedly asked for the work to be sorted, she reacted very quickly to the request! (so why did my son have to ask 'repeatedly'?)

She apologised for the disruption but states that it must be expected with this kind of work. Yes agreed, but to be left with the mess to clean up is not expected.

She claims to have told him that the builders would be coming 'well in advance'. 'Well in advance' or 'at some point' is not really what I would consider notice.

So the letter tennis begins!

A request to cover the cost of the wardrobe (not a huge amount) and a question asked if she plans to get the room cleaned? If she decides that isn't necessary, then it is put on record that the paint marks on the carpet and other areas are not down to my son therefore he cannot be held responsible for it at the end of the tenancy.

Also pointed out that the damp has already returned so what can be done to get this sorted once and for all? If no amicable and satisfactory conclusion can be drawn then Environmental health will have to be involved as a last resort.

Environmental health have already been contacted for initial advice and they have the details of the problem and will intervene if needed.

[patchouli]

Re: New tenancy problem

All this stress for everyone. I'd have to move somewhere different, the LL doesn't sound like she will agree to anything.

[PlanB]

Re: New tenancy problem

The landlady has contacted the lead tenant and had a rant about my son and the email that he sent and she has stated that she will not reply!

She states that after she was repeatedly asked for the work to be sorted, she reacted very quickly to the request!

. . . . She apologised for the disruption but states that it must be expected with this kind of work. Yes agreed, but to be left with the mess to clean up is not expected.

She claims to have told him that the builders would be coming 'well in advance'. 'Well in advance' or 'at some point' is not really what I would consider notice.

Do you think there may have been a breakdown in communication between the tenants? How many housemates are there? The Landlady says she gave notice of the works which I'm guessing was given to the lead tenant because that is normal. Could something have got lost in translation between the housemates after that? She has every right to say she'll only deal with the lead tenant because that's why a tenancy with multiple occupants has a lead tenant. She really doesn't have to deal direct with your son unless he becomes the lead tenant.

If the contractors have finished then the lead tenant should advise the Landlady of this so she can arrange for a clean-up. Builders don't clear up their own mess.

the damp has already returned so what can be done to get this sorted once and for all? If no amicable and satisfactory conclusion can be drawn then Environmental health will have to be involved as a last resort .

Why wait to involved the Environmental Health department? If there is a genuine damp issue then they will force the Landlady to deal with it pronto.

My thoughts on what your son should do? He should leave it to the lead tenant to handle.

[PlanB]

Re: New tenancy problem

His room is already showing signs of the black damp/condensation on the wall where the builders supposedly treated approx 1 week ago!

Any thoughts on what he should do or do we contact the Environmental health to come and have a look and assess the problem?

Can you post up a picture of the damp?

[SaltnVinegar]

Re: New tenancy problem

Finally received a reply!

She states that after she was repeatedly asked for the work to be sorted, she reacted very quickly to the request! (so why did my son have to ask 'repeatedly'?)

She apologised for the disruption but states that it must be expected with this kind of work. Yes agreed, but to be left with the mess to clean up is not expected.

She claims to have told him that the builders would be coming 'well in advance'. 'Well in advance' or 'at some point' is not really what I would consider notice.

So the letter tennis begins!

A request to cover the cost of the wardrobe (not a huge amount) and a question asked if she plans to get the room cleaned? If she decides that isn't necessary, then it is put on record that the paint marks on the carpet and other areas are not down to my son therefore he cannot be held responsible for it at the end of the tenancy.

Also pointed out that the damp has already returned so what can be done to get this sorted once and for all? If no amicable and satisfactory conclusion can be drawn then Environmental health will have to be involved as a last resort.

Environmental health have already been contacted for initial advice and they have the details of the problem and will intervene if needed.

Hi Marypoppins

Reading through the thread it does appear that the landlady is making an attempt to get things sorted. I kind of get the impression that things have got a little heated between the landlady and your son for whatever reason (perhaps the tone of his emails were a little confrontational perhaps?).

If the leak through the roof which is causing the damp is partly down to neighbours then there is a possibility that the landlady may be caught in a dispute with them, or insurers, or even the builders who did the original roofing job.

Are you sure the tenants hadn't been given reasonable notice by the landlady about when the builders would arrive? Perhaps she told the lead tenant that builders were coming and the lead tenant neglected to tell your son?

And while I can see your point of view that the landlady should ensure that contractors leave the property in the state they found it sometimes you have to roll with the punches and just get on, get the hoover out and clean yourself and then ensure that any damage that was done as a result of them not cleaning is put in writing.

We rented a property with an Aga, where the flue had a blowback into the house and covered everything in the house in a nice black soot. In that instance we just got on with it and cleaned the place rather than waiting a few days for the landlord to send round "professional cleaners"

What I think is happening here is that there are expectations on both sides that don't appear to be understood or agreed.

Perhaps your son could suggest a meeting/call involving the lead tenant to discuss the situation, acknowledge the fact the landlady may also be having problems she is trying to resolve behind the scenes, and that you want to work with her to sort the situation out. I fear from your posts that if the current situation continues all that is going to happen is that your son and the landlady are going to get further entrenched in their positions, the relationship will irretrievably break down, and then nothing will get done.

SnV

[tastyjane]

Re: New tenancy problem

I can only reiterate what plan b has said about environmental health department, they were amazing when josh had his mould issue; they acted as mediators with the letting agents and gave us lots of impartial advice. Get them in sooner rather than later I would say if you believe there's an issue.

jane x

[alland]

Re: New tenancy problem

Hi Marypoppins

Reading through the thread it does appear that the landlady is making an attempt to get things sorted. I kind of get the impression that things have got a little heated between the landlady and your son for whatever reason (perhaps the tone of his emails were a little confrontational perhaps?).

If the leak through the roof which is causing the damp is partly down to neighbours then there is a possibility that the landlady may be caught in a dispute with them, or insurers, or even the builders who did the original roofing job.

Are you sure the tenants hadn't been given reasonable notice by the landlady about when the builders would arrive? Perhaps she told the lead tenant that builders were coming and the lead tenant neglected to tell your son?

And while I can see your point of view that the landlady should ensure that contractors leave the property in the state they found it sometimes you have to roll with the punches and just get on, get the hoover out and clean yourself and then ensure that any damage that was done as a result of them not cleaning is put in writing.

We rented a property with an Aga, where the flue had a blowback into the house and covered everything in the house in a nice black soot. In that instance we just got on with it and cleaned the place rather than waiting a few days for the landlord to send round "professional cleaners"

What I think is happening here is that there are expectations on both sides that don't appear to be understood or agreed.

Perhaps your son could suggest a meeting/call involving the lead tenant to discuss the situation, acknowledge the fact the landlady may also be having problems she is trying to resolve behind the scenes, and that you want to work with her to sort the situation out. I fear from your posts that if the current situation continues all that is going to happen is that your son and the landlady are going to get further entrenched in their positions, the relationship will irretrievably break down, and then nothing will get done.

SnV

Excellent post SnV, a common sense perspective of the situation before it becomes a stand off with all the parties involved.

[marypoppins]

Re: New tenancy problem

E=patchouli;367380]All this stress for everyone. I'd have to move somewhere different, the LL doesn't sound like she will agree to anything.[/QUOTE]
I agree Patchouli, they have six months to go on the tenancy so will now be looking elsewhere.

Do you think there may have been a breakdown in communication between the tenants? How many housemates are there? The Landlady says she gave notice of the works which I'm guessing was given to the lead tenant because that is normal. Could something have got lost in translation between the housemates after that? She has every right to say she'll only deal with the lead tenant because that's why a tenancy with multiple occupants has a lead tenant. She really doesn't have to deal direct with your son unless he becomes the lead tenant.

There's only four of them and they get on extremely well but no one was told about the builders impending visit. It could have been that the landlady told the builders and it may have been left with the builders to do the job asap but they should not have turned up unannounced. The builders could have been given a contact number to let one of them know the day before.

If the contractors have finished then the lead tenant should advise the Landlady of this so she can arrange for a clean-up. Builders don't clear up their own mess.

As the builders seemed to come and go as they pleased, no one could have known if they had completed everything that the landlady had asked to be done.

Why wait to involved the Environmental Health department? If there is a genuine damp issue then they will force the Landlady to deal with it pronto.

I only became aware of this when you suggested it in an earlier post and at that time, the work was being done so there was no reason to get them involved. I realise now that this was a big mistake and they should have been involved from the first sign of damp.

My thoughts on what your son should do? He should leave it to the lead tenant to handle.

The lead tenant has had several abusive call from the landlady, she doesn't seem to be able to have a conversation without shouting! So understandably she doesn't particularly want to take calls from her. When volunteering to be 'lead' tenant you don't know what you are going to be up against!

Can you post up a picture of the damp?

I'm waiting for him to send me one of how it is now, I've got one from before so will upload as soon as I can.

Hi Marypoppins

Reading through the thread it does appear that the landlady is making an attempt to get things sorted. I kind of get the impression that things have got a little heated between the landlady and your son for whatever reason (perhaps the tone of his emails were a little confrontational perhaps?).

When all she does is shout on the telephone (a couple of them have suffered this), it's not surprising that things have got a little heated.

If the leak through the roof which is causing the damp is partly down to neighbours then there is a possibility that the landlady may be caught in a dispute with them, or insurers, or even the builders who did the original roofing job.

Then the tenants should be told if this is the case. It could also be that the builders doing the work now, were the original that did a botch job but there's no way of knowing this as the roof had been done prior to occupation.

Are you sure the tenants hadn't been given reasonable notice by the landlady about when the builders would arrive? Perhaps she told the lead tenant that builders were coming and the lead tenant neglected to tell your son?

The landlady was on holiday when the builders came so no the lead tenant was not advised.

And while I can see your point of view that the landlady should ensure that contractors leave the property in the state they found it sometimes you have to roll with the punches and just get on, get the hoover out and clean yourself and then ensure that any damage that was done as a result of them not cleaning is put in writing.

That's exactly what my son had to do, have you seen the picture I posted of the state the room was left in? They had literally thrown everything over to the other side of his room. Yes a letter/email will be sent about cleaning because any paint marks left will be an issue at the end of the tenancy.

We rented a property with an Aga, where the flue had a blowback into the house and covered everything in the house in a nice black soot. In that instance we just got on with it and cleaned the place rather than waiting a few days for the landlord to send round "professional cleaners"

That must have been pretty awful at the time and I agree that in some instances it is better to bit the bullet and just get on with it.

What I think is happening here is that there are expectations on both sides that don't appear to be understood or agreed.

When paying £1500 per month, it is not unreasonable to expect a damp free house. I don't think this damp has suddenly appeared, I think that it has been apparent for a while and continued poor attempts to rectify it have not been successful.

Perhaps your son could suggest a meeting/call involving the lead tenant to discuss the situation, acknowledge the fact the landlady may also be having problems she is trying to resolve behind the scenes, and that you want to work with her to sort the situation out. I fear from your posts that if the current situation continues all that is going to happen is that your son and the landlady are going to get further entrenched in their positions, the relationship will irretrievably break down, and then nothing will get done.

That thought did occur to me, it's worth a try.

SnV

I can only reiterate what plan b has said about environmental health department, they were amazing when josh had his mould issue; they acted as mediators with the letting agents and gave us lots of impartial advice. Get them in sooner rather than later I would say if you believe there's an issue.

Thanks Jane, they are aware of the problem now and have said that they will get involved if needed and maybe now is the time to have an independent and impartial the case.

jane x

This is my first multi- quote so forgive me if I've missed anything or got things muddled!

Thank you everyone for the ongoing support and advice.

I think I would like to have a job as a housing inspector for proposed rental properties, I think it would be a most interesting job!

I got logged out when I went to submit my reply This may now be posted twice!

Thanks for post Alland I agree with the suggestion and we'll see if she will agree to a meeting.

[marypoppins]

Re: New tenancy problem

Just another bit to add. When the house was viewed originally with the agent, the basement room had been re-plastered and a de-humidifier was on to dry the walls out.

It seems that the tenant occupying this room has to have the de-humidifier on permanently. Do you think this is acceptable?

[Deepie]

Re: New tenancy problem

Just another bit to add. When the house was viewed originally with the agent, the basement room had been re-plastered and a de-humidifier was on to dry the walls out.

It seems that the tenant occupying this room has to have the de-humidifier on permanently. Do you think this is acceptable?

Have a read here---> http://www.patent-glazing.com/pdf%20...ndensation.pdf


We have a de-humidifier that is on permanently during the day.........

[alland]

Re: New tenancy problem

Thanks for post Alland I agree with the suggestion and we'll see if she will agree to a meeting.

Hi marypoppins,
Just for clarity I was quoting in reply to the excellent post by SaltnVinegar who sensibly suggested trying to set up a meeting and clear the air, good luck to your Son and his fellow tenants in reaching an acceptable solution to their ongoing issues with their Landlady.

[SaltnVinegar]

Re: New tenancy problem

that thought did occur to me, it's worth a try.

"No. Try not. Do or do not. There is no try." - Yoda - The Empire Strikes Back

On a more serious note..........

Thanks for providing more information but I'd like you to put aside everything thats happened up to this point, start as if you approaching everything fresh and there is no history, and have a read back through your responses on post 53.

Putting aside the landlady's conduct, and instead, just looking at your own, would you agree that perhaps you are being a bit defensive? (I'm not saying that there is no reason/justification for being so but can you answer truthfully a simple yes or no regardless of provocation?)

Can you see how this could come across in a telephone call or an email if your responses are similar to those in post 53 and how they could create a stand off position?

Frequently the best way to get what you want out in a situation of conflict is to resolve your own grievances and be the reasonable and calm authority in the situation. I think this is the way forward for your son here. And I put that in bold because I think, perhaps, he is relying on you too much to come up with answers for him here. I'm not suggesting you can't be supportive, put perhaps stop trying to resolve things for him.

Ultimately it sounds like your son has decided that he is going to move out anyway and being honest even if building rectification was done tomorrow chances are the house would likely take 2-3 months to dry out thoroughly anyway. With this in mind your son has to ask the question - "what do I want to get from this?". Involving EH will probably only get the situation resolved for the next tenant (IF the landlord rectifies things). Just a thought...

If he still wants some sort of resolution (perhaps, to ask the landlady for dehumidifiers if that helps) then when things get to this sort of position I suggest face to face meetings on neutral ground are the way forward. Suggest to your son that he proposes to meet with the landlady in a local branch of Starbucks/Cafe Nero/Coffee Republic with him and the lead tenant and that they just wants to discuss things in an amicable fashion with no finger pointing and to allow both sides to understand the others situations. In a public place its much harder for tempers to become frayed, and if the landlady refuses then your son will then know his position and then can consider his options.

Best
SnV

[marypoppins]

Re: New tenancy problem

Whilst I've been thinking about S&V's post and considering what they (tenants) should do, I've just had a call from my son and it seems that they have finally got a result!

I had advised my son to send the landlady photographic evidence of his room showing the areas of damp and the state that the builders left his room in and to try again to get things sorted amicably. But also to point out his concerns about money being deducted from his deposit due to paint marks on his carpet and elsewhere in the room.

His housemates also sent photo's of the rest of the house, again showing areas of damp and what the builders have done (as in mess).

She has contacted the lead tenant and apologised and asked her to pass on apologies to my son too.

She went on to say that she basically didn't believe what my son was saying. It seems that the builders were giving her a totally different story telling her that everything was fine at the house. The builders story to my son previously was that they were having problems with her!

She has told them that she has contacted someone else and asked them to come and look at the house and see what needs doing and has given the lead tenant his number so that a mutually convenient time can be arranged to visit.

She assured them that there would be no issues with their deposits and she would not expect a professional clean to be done when they leave. She added that her lack of communication was mostly down to her other business taking up a lot of her time and again apologised for not contacting them sooner.

Every picture tells a story!

[marypoppins]

Re: New tenancy problem

P.S. To deepie, thanks for the link about double glazing, I've saved it for future reference.

[PlanB]

Re: New tenancy problem

Result