New tenancy problem

[PlanB]

Re: New tenancy problem

No freezer supplied, agent sent £20 as a gesture (one of the group said that they could get a second hand one for that amount off a friend) and he has also said that they can amend the inventory and the landlady will too.

It looks as though this landlady is going to be a PITA as she's already had her accountant chasing rent and she has also called the lead tenant today and shouted at her! The rent isn't due until 1st September and was paid in full yesterday. (it seems there was a problem with Barclays and the payment didn't go through immediately) In view of this, there is no way I would trust her to amend the inventory so I have advised them to send written confirmation and get written confirmation back from the agent that the missing freezer has been noted.

I have also advised them to ignore any more calls from the landlady or the accountant and deal directly with the agent, who they arranged the tenancy through.

Another question please. The tenancy agreement states that the deposit is protected but should they still expect written confirmation of this too?

I thought we had problems with student lets but this is getting off to a very bad start!

Oh dear you do seem to have got off to a bad start here but I'd be lying if I didn't say it's not looking completely one-sided

Housing law isn't always black and white and most disputes are decided on reasonableness. Try looking at this objectively even though it's your son at the eye of the storm.

The Tenants told the Landlord that they could buy a second-hand freezer for £20. The Landlord has paid the Tenants the £20. Sorted. If the Tenants aren't happy with that resolution then they shouldn't have agreed to it in the first place.

The Tenants have said they will amend to Inventory to be accurate, and the Landlord has agreed to do the same. Sorted.

The rent is due when the tenancy agreement says it's due and not before or after. If the rent is due on the first of the month and that day falls on a weekend (like 1st September does) then the tenancy agreement may say that rent should be paid "on the last working day of the month" or "as cleared funds before the 1st of the month" which would mean payment was due last Friday not next Monday. What does it say in the tenancy agreement about the rent due date?

Is the Landlord really a pain in the a*se for demanding rent due? If the Landlord decides to delegate rent collection to his accountant is that so bad? Although I don't approve of anyone shouting at Tenants under any circumstances.

The Tenants can only deal direct with the agent if the tenancy has been established as a *managed* tenancy and this will be spelt out in the tenancy agreement. An awful lot of rentals are set up on a *Tenant Find* only basis. Once the Tenant has been found the agent has nothing more to do with the deal. What does it say in the tenancy agreement? If it's not managed by the agent then they can refuse to take any calls from the Tenants and they will have no option but to deal with the Landlord direct.

On the issue of the tenants' deposit the Landlord has a statutory obligation to give the tenants the prescribed information within 30 days of receipt of the money. Read about how it works here:

http://england.shelter.org.uk/get_ad...ection_schemes

As a mother I share your good intentions to get all this sorted for your son, and you have been giving advice on what to do and what not to do. I did the same until my daughter told me to butt out, stop interfering and allow her to grow up. Don't say I haven't warned you

[marypoppins]

Re: New tenancy problem

Oh dear you do seem to have got off to a bad start here but I'd be lying if I didn't say it's not looking completely one-sided

Extremely bad start but hey ho, only just under 11 months to go!

Housing law isn't always black and white and most disputes are decided on reasonableness. Try looking at this objectively even though it's your son at the eye of the storm.

The Tenants told the Landlord that they could buy a second-hand freezer for £20. The Landlord has paid the Tenants the £20. Sorted. If the Tenants aren't happy with that resolution then they shouldn't have agreed to it in the first place.

The other three agreed this before mentioning it to my son unfortunately so yes, nothing more can be done.

The Tenants have said they will amend to Inventory to be accurate, and the Landlord has agreed to do the same. Sorted.

I just advised them to keep a copy of an email that was sent to the agent.

The rent is due when the tenancy agreement says it's due and not before or after. If the rent is due on the first of the month and that day falls on a weekend (like 1st September does) then the tenancy agreement may say that rent should be paid "on the last working day of the month" or "as cleared funds before the 1st of the month" which would mean payment was due last Friday not next Monday. What does it say in the tenancy agreement about the rent due date?

AST states payments due on the 1st of each month but yes of course if it falls on a weekend then it would need to be paid on the Friday before and in this case, was paid on Thursday 30th (there was a glich, it seems with Barclays that day so it may not have got there until 31st)

Is the Landlord really a pain in the a*se for demanding rent due? If the Landlord decides to delegate rent collection to his accountant is that so bad? Although I don't approve of anyone shouting at Tenants under any circumstances.

Yes if they are demanding rent before it is due, by way of a call from the accountant and then an abusive telephone call from the LL

The Tenants can only deal direct with the agent if the tenancy has been established as a *managed* tenancy and this will be spelt out in the tenancy agreement. An awful lot of rentals are set up on a *Tenant Find* only basis. Once the Tenant has been found the agent has nothing more to do with the deal. What does it say in the tenancy agreement? If it's not managed by the agent then they can refuse to take any calls from the Tenants and they will have no option but to deal with the Landlord direct.

The agent has confirmed that they only act on a 'tenant find' basis, but want to help because it reflects on them for future rentals if the existing tenants have had a troublesome tenancy and are likely to 'warn' any prospective new tenants.

On the issue of the tenants' deposit the Landlord has a statutory obligation to give the tenants the prescribed information within 30 days of receipt of the money. Read about how it works here:

http://england.shelter.org.uk/get_ad...ection_schemes

Thanks for the link, I haven't read it yet but noted that on the AST that it states the name and address of the company that it will be registered but nothing more.

As a mother I share your good intentions to get all this sorted for your son, and you have been giving advice on what to do and what not to do. I did the same until my daughter told me to butt out, stop interfering and allow her to grow up. Don't say I haven't warned you

He wouldn't dare to at the moment, I'm still supplying the readies!

Good news this week is that it looks like a job has been secured so my bank balance will start looking healthier. First time in three years!

Thanks for your assistance.

[marypoppins]

Re: New tenancy problem

Freezer now in situ, it seems they had a bargain, thank goodness for generous relatives!

Seems that the fridge isn't working properly now!

I'm going to 'butt out' and leave them to sort this themselves Plan B.

[marypoppins]

Re: New tenancy problem

I know I was going to 'butt' out BUT it seems that there is a damp issue in the house!

The roof had been replaced before occupation however it seems that it was done by someone who didn't know what they were doing!

My sons room has several patches of damp, in corners and on the chimney breast (mid terraced property) builders came round in October and did 'as much as they could' but stated that the roof job was done very badly.

I don't know what they did in October but of course with all the rain we've had, the damp has re-appeared and is worse than ever!

On new years day, water was also discovered leaking through the loft hatch and it seems that there is a gap between the the adjoining house on the one side, they tried to get in touch with the landlady but she didn't respond to calls or an email at this point.

Moving on to today, my son was woken (about 10am so not too early)this morning by builders entering the house (with keys) in order to start work on his room, which entailed removing plaster and water damaged parts on the chimney breast and replacing plaster board and plan to return tomorrow to re-plaster.

Whilst it is appreciated that this work is urgently needed, no notice was given and this resulted in a mad dash to get furniture and items removed from the area that they needed to get to and the room was obviously off limits whilst the work was being done, which was very inconvenient as no time was given to extract things from the room that he would need.

The builders used no dust sheets! So it doesn't take much imagination to picture the state of his room at the end of today and they are planning to return tomorrow to re-plaster and it will at some point then need to be re-decorated. He will be at work tomorrow so won't be able to see what is done and I guess they won't be bothered about they mess they leave, if they didn't use any protection for items in the room in the first place!

Hopefully planB is around (or anyone else) to give some guidelines as to what redress the tenants are entitled to. In my opinion and knowing how awful plaster dust is and the mess it makes, I would think that the room is likely to be uninhabitable until the job is completed and will require a very thorough and possibly a professional clean.

Any advice very much appreciated, he wants to send an email to the landlady about today but I think we also need to know the tenants rights as far as who is responsible for what. Especially when they will have to come back and sort leak in the loft.

[PlanB]

Re: New tenancy problem

I'm going to speak frankly so please don't take offence

This poor Landlady can't win can she? You were cross because she didn't answer calls or emails on New Year's Day. How many businesses take calls on a Bank Holiday unless the place is on fire? Then when she sends round some builders to fix the problem 48 hours later she's in trouble because she didn't give notice in advance. How do you know she didn't try to ring one of the tenants and they didn't answer her calls? Perhaps she was expecting the tenants to be back at work so she told the builders to let themselves into the property and get on with the job in preference to expecting the tenants to take time off work to provide access.

So the builders have made a mess. That's what builders do I'm afraid. The plastering job isn't finished so who's to say they won't clear up when it's over. Plaster takes six weeks to dry before it can be painted over unless they're using the quick-dry method. Maybe this Landlady will send in professional cleaners when the job's done. Wait and see.

The tenancy agreement will make the Landlord responsible for repairs. I don't know what sort of redress the tenants are seeking and why they think they're due anything. They reported a problem and she fixed it. I think she's blooming marvellous to have got on the job so quick during the Christmas/New Year holidays

You should read Pookey's thread. He's been waiting two years to get some of his repairs carried out by his Landlord.

If your son wants to send his Landlady an email today then I think it should say a great big THANK YOU for responding so quickly to the problem.

I warned you I was going to speak frankly

[PlanB]

Re: New tenancy problem

Moving on to today, my son was woken (about 10am so not too early)this morning by builders entering the house (with keys) in order to start work on his room, which entailed removing plaster and water damaged parts on the chimney breast and replacing plaster board and plan to return tomorrow to re-plaster.

. . . . . The builders used no dust sheets! So it doesn't take much imagination to picture the state of his room at the end of today and they are planning to return tomorrow to re-plaster and it will at some point then need to be re-decorated. He will be at work tomorrow so won't be able to see . . . .
. . . . when they will have to come back and sort leak in the loft.

Blimey this Landlady has got builders who will work on a Saturday. Can you get me their phone number because I can never get mine to work weekends

Your son will be at work tomorrow so will miss the mess. Surely the only crime that's been committed is he got woken up at 10 am this morning. Maybe the Landlady left a voicemail telling him the builders were on the way if his mobile was switched off. Would he have preferred to have been woken up at 7 am with a call to say clear your room out so the builders can start work?

I don't see a problem with the builders returning to fix the loft problem since I presume no one is living in it

[marypoppins]

Re: New tenancy problem

Hi planB,
I don't have a problem with your frankness and please don't take offence, but I think you may be a little biased

Just to clarify my post, the builders that arrived today only came to try and resolve the damp problem in my sons room which has been ongoing since early October, so this wasn't the quick response you refer to for the leak in the roof. No one had any calls or messages left about them coming and indeed, it wasn't a problem with them being there to do the job, but I still maintain that suitable notice should have been given, even if it was just a few hours.

The issue however is that my son has very expensive musical equipment in his room. If the builders had caused any damage to these items, had they not been removed, who would have paid for the damage? The landlady? I think not! So it was fortunate that he was there to move some things.

Water can do serious damage to electrical equipment and as all the tenants have lots of computer an musical equipment, I don't think it unreasonable to have a house that is free from leaks and any mould resulting from the damp, which I am sure you will appreciate can have health issues too.

As far as the cleaning is concerned, we will see what happens. Son won't be there but has moved as much as poss and covered what he can to reduce any more disruption. Probably a bit late but nothing can be done now!

Sorry I just can't agree with 'poor landlady', more like property rich landlady who is likely to lose good paying tenants.

The agent that introduced this house told us that many Landlords are now having to spend money on their poorly maintained properties because student demand is reducing due to the huge increase in uni fees thus resulting in an abundance of student rental properties so they are more particular about conditions of where they are going to live and what they expect for the amount of rent being charged.

Don't get me wrong, the thought of renting out to students is not something I would like to do but I can only speak from my experience with the three properties my son has lived in whilst at uni and now as a 'professional', it is very apparent that little work was or had been done for the enormous amount of rent that is being charged.

Of course it didn't help that he chose one of the most expensive places for students to live but we didn't discover this until after he accepted his place at uni but I don't suppose that this would have changed his decision to study there.

[PlanB]

Re: New tenancy problem

Hi planB, I don't have a problem with your frankness and please don't take offence, but I think you may be a little biased

If I have any bias it's that of a Mother not a Landlady. If my daughter complained about builders turning up at 10 am to carry out necessary work without sufficient warning I would tell her to "deal with it" and stop making such a fuss.

I accept that the expensive electrical equipment may have been caused damaged if it had not been removed, but it was removed and no damage was caused. If damage had been caused then of course you would be able to claim off the Landlady who in turn would claim off her contractor's insurance. What makes you think that wouldn't happen? Most tenancy agreements include a clause which makes the Tenant take out contents insurance including Accidental Damage cover so the equipment would have been covered either way.

Of course Tenants and all human beings have the right to live in a house free from damp and mould so the Tenants should have contacted the Council's Environmental Health Team in October to report the problem. The Environmental Officer would have made an inspection and if he felt the property was substandard and likely to cause health issues then a stern letter would have been sent to the Landlady threatening all sorts of legal action in the Magistrates Court if it wasn't fixed within 21 days. At that point it would seem reasonable to seek a rent reduction and/or a termination of the contract and new home found for the Tenants.

[PlanB]

Re: New tenancy problem

The agent that introduced this house told us that many Landlords are now having to spend money on their poorly maintained properties because student demand is reducing due to the huge increase in uni fees thus resulting in an abundance of student rental properties so they are more particular about conditions of where they are going to live and what they expect for the amount of rent being charged.

I think the agent has almost got that right. When tuition fees went sky high the number of domestic students dropped but the places were taken up by international students. Most of these foreign students are from rich families and they will not tolerate typical student housing conditions. They are willing to pay more to rent good quality houses which leaves the properties needing work unlet.

When my daughter was at university she lived in a dreadful house but she loved it. It brought out her inner slumminess. She left half-eaten pizzas under the bed, food in the fridge was covered in mould, and a couple of laptops got trashed from leaving them out in the rain following all-night raves in the back garden. She said she enjoyed the freedom of not having me telling her to clear up all the time.

[marypoppins]

Re: New tenancy problem

It's now a week since the landlady was advised of the problem with the leaking roof and she has made no contact with any of the tenants.

An email has now been sent to her pointing out the ongoing problems and asking what plans she has to sort the roof and also complete the work in my sons room and whether arrangements are being made to clean the mess that has been left.

My son got chatting to the builders and it appears that they too are having problems with the landlady, they have told her what needs doing to get the house up to an acceptable standard but she will not authorise the work so they can only do 'bits and pieces' to try and tidy the house up.

I have now suggested that they contact the local Environmental Health team for further advice.

[PlanB]

Re: New tenancy problem

It's now a week since the landlady was advised of the problem with the leaking roof and she has made no contact with any of the tenants. An email has now been sent to her pointing out the ongoing problems and asking what plans she has to sort the roof.

It occurs to me that this roof leak may be caused by the neighbouring property (something you posted earlier which I've quoted below) and the Landlady has to liaise with them over liability issues. I could be wrong. Is the leak in the loft affecting life in the house for the tenants?

On new years day, water was also discovered leaking through the loft hatch and it seems that there is a gap between the adjoining house on the one side.

[PlanB]

Re: New tenancy problem

I have now suggested that they contact the local Environmental Health team for further advice.

What has been the advice from the Environmental Health Team? They normally respond rapidly if they think there is a risk to the occupiers The council will be neutral and objective so what they decide to be the case can be relied upon.

[marypoppins]

Re: New tenancy problem

Hi planB, the landlady is still not responding to emails or messages left on her phone.

The roof leak does mean that water is coming through the loft hatch so there's damp on the ceiling and down the walls of the landing and of course the torrential rain has not helped. Some of the town where they are has been very badly flooded but fortunately they are on a hill.

I can't comment about the adjoining house but the builders are now working on the roof to try sort the leak. I do appreciate what you say about work getting done but the house has been like a building site for a week now. Some of them work long shifts and need to get some peace and quiet but it's been very disrupting for all of them.

The environmental people haven't been contacted yet, I think they will now have to wait and see what the end result is when the builders have finished the roof.

The builders seem to be decent guys and want to try and get the problems sorted for them and are just as frustrated because their hands are tied with restrictions that the landlady is imposing on them. Everything appears to be non negotiable.

They are now half way through the 12 month tenancy so they plan to start looking elsewhere now to try and secure somewhere else before the student demand starts in the summer. Where has the time gone?

[PlanB]

Re: New tenancy problem

the builders are now working on the roof to try sort the leak. I do appreciate what you say about work getting done but the house has been like a building site for a week now.

. . . . They are now half way through the 12 month tenancy so they plan to start looking elsewhere now to try and secure somewhere else

I'm glad to hear the builders are dealing with the roof leak. The trouble is builders don't/won't work outside in the rain for health and safety reasons. They could slip and fall. Now the rain has stopped things should move forward.

I do sympathize with your view over the disruption to the Tenants while the work is carried out and maybe when it's all done they can ask for some sort of rent rebate (although it will be hard to quantify). I don't think there will be a legal right to compensation since it's a balance between the Tenants wanting the problems remedied and then complaining when the Landlady does what's needed.

Is there a break clause in that 12 month tenancy agreement? Most Tenants arrange for a break clause at six months for reasons such as these. If there is a break clause then they can give notice any time after the six months is up.

[marypoppins]

Re: New tenancy problem

Hi planB

I agree, the builders can't be on a roof if there's any danger of an accident.

Depending on how long the disruption goes on for, then they will approach her to discuss reduction in rent but as she remains unresponsive, I doubt there will be anything offered.

I've checked the tenancy agreement and it doesn't mention any break clause unfortunately. It's interesting to know that this is a possible option when they are considering other houses.

A strange thing came to light recently regarding the tenancy document. Nobody appears to have a signed copy, the tenants, the agent nor the landlady!

We needed a copy recently for proof of tenancy and the agent said that it was given to the landlady and she says that all copies (4) were left at the house on the day of occupation but there isn't one to be found anywhere and the landlady says she doesn't have the original!