Unenforceable Overdrafts - CCA Information

[Never-In-Doubt]

Re: Unenforceable Overdrafts - CCA Information

[QUOTE=debtguy;559814]Thanks - most encouraging! How come it was enforceable before - was it just the addition of the charges sending it over the limit that rendered it unenforceable? Thanks for the encouraging news![/QUOTE]It was always UE as no s.86 notices were ever issued ;)

[Never-In-Doubt]

Re: Unenforceable Overdrafts - CCA Information

If charges were the sole reason you went overdrawn it wouldn't make it UE; no. However you'd have a huge defence to get it sorted via FOS etc long before a claim was issued.

If a claim was issued we'd likely be arguing that the debt arose as a result of the banks actions. Not those of you.

You send the CCA to whoever owns the debt so in your case it has to be the DCA.

You need to bear in mind that if you had an authorised OD and maxed it out then charges put you over its tough luck BUT it'll then be a regulated agreement as such. However if you did not have an agreed OD and charges forced you into an OD position you've got a great chance of success. There's two scenarios and of those one will always apply.

1. You had an authorised OD and charges put you over your limit - (you could argue but likely you'd lose)...
2. You didn't have an authorised OD but charges etc put you into an unauthorised OD - (you can argue and it's likely you'd get a result)...

In both cases, s.74 applies.

[scottygees]

Re: Unenforceable Overdrafts - CCA Information

I have been reading this thread with interest tonight. I have to admit I am finding parts of it all very confusing though. I am in the process of sending of CCA requests and am wanting to send something similar in connection with my overdraft.All debts are currently on a DMP. The OD is with Yorkshire Bank but has been passed to a DCA , so who do I send my letter to? Though the OD balance has reduced significantly under the DMP I am pretty sure at some stage that bank charges sent it into an unauthorised OD. Would this render the OD unenforceable? Just want to make sure I am sending the correct correspondence at this moment in time. Apologies if I am getting ahead of myself.

[cymruambyth]

Re: Unenforceable Overdrafts - CCA Information

Hi, we were close to the edge, had loads of charges added and then as we changed accounts so the charges took it over limit. A SAR showed that they could produce annual statements though I can't remember receiving any! Since then, charges taking it over the limit and lack of extra statements meant that it failed to comply with the law. Second account was couple with a loan, I haven't told them that and they seem to have forgotten it :).
The result us that the bank that ignored all financial checks and then dumped us appears to lost, £25,000 loan, £18,000 credit card, £6,000+ OD and £400 OD appears to have nothing from us - we did get a cheque for over £6,000 from then for mis sold PPI :). When they issued a claim it was withdrawn thanks to AAd's previous solicitor.

[debtguy]

Re: Unenforceable Overdrafts - CCA Information

[QUOTE=cymruambyth;559812]You are right, my OD exceeded its limit with charges and has been closed but it is unenforceable and has become SB due the bank's behaviour. A SAR had shown that until their actions it was enforceable - shame :)[/QUOTE]

Thanks - most encouraging! How come it was enforceable before - was it just the addition of the charges sending it over the limit that rendered it unenforceable? Thanks for the encouraging news!

[cymruambyth]

Re: Unenforceable Overdrafts - CCA Information

You are right, my OD exceeded its limit with charges and has been closed but it is unenforceable and has become SB due the bank's behaviour. A SAR had shown that until their actions it was enforceable - shame :)

[debtguy]

Re: Unenforceable Overdrafts - CCA Information

Funny thing is, apart from their fees the overdraft isn't unarranged - when I stopped paying into the account it was £14995 overdrawn on a £15000 o/d.

But the next day they applied £200 of charges, which put it over the limit. So they way I see it, they have shot themselves in the foot by doing so, because throwing the overdraft into 'unarranged' appears to give me rights that I wouldn't otherwise have had...

Have I understood that correctly? If so, it's a funny old world - innit?

[debtguy]

Re: Unenforceable Overdrafts - CCA Information

[QUOTE=cymruambyth;559806]If you look at post 2 in this thread it helps to explain the different rules[/QUOTE]

Yes, from my reading of the 2010 law, the fact that there is an unarranged overdraft changes everything (for the better!):

[url]http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2010/1969/regulation/9/made[/url]

[cymruambyth]

Re: Unenforceable Overdrafts - CCA Information

[QUOTE=cardiac arrest;559802]if it were me I'd take the 19 days...no need to rush anything. There's plenty of 'mays' in their letter and no 'wills' ...so just hot air at the moment.

As an aside, is there any difference between a formal overdraft facility and an unauthorised overdraft...like if the bank gave you £100 facility but you ended up £200 overdrawn ?[/QUOTE]

If you look at post 2 in this thread it helps to explain the different rules

[cardiac arrest]

Re: Unenforceable Overdrafts - CCA Information

if it were me I'd take the 19 days...no need to rush anything. There's plenty of 'mays' in their letter and no 'wills' ...so just hot air at the moment.

As an aside, is there any difference between a formal overdraft facility and an unauthorised overdraft...like if the bank gave you £100 facility but you ended up £200 overdrawn ?

[debtguy]

Re: Unenforceable Overdrafts - CCA Information

O.K. - things moving on a bit. I've now had the 'go away' letter predicted on Page 1 of this thread, and it is in much the expected vein. Here it is, or at least the important bits of it:

[COMMENCE QUOTE]

There is no obligation on the Bank to enter into a written agreement with you for the provision of an overdraft facility and there is no obligation to provide a copy of any agreement that might have been made, on demand

You have operated your account and created an overdrawn position by making transactions. The Bank is confident that it will be able to demonstrate to a Court's satisfaction that you are indebted to the Bank and Judgment will be granted.
[[I]There should be a comma after 'Bank' in that sentence - Ed[/I] :)]

We have attached a complete set of account transactions which will likely form part of the Bank's evidence before Court.

You may obtain a copy of the Bank's published T&Cs by visiting our website.

If you are unwilling to voluntarily enter [[I]split infinitive - their English is as shit as their banking - Ed[/I]] into a repayment arrangement, the Bank's solicitors may be instructed to commence legal action against you in order to obtain a County Court Judgment. This will make it difficult to obtain credit from other lenders.

We strongly recommend that you obtain independent legal advice and look forward to receiving your repayment proposals within 21 days.

Kind regards [[I]ho bloody ho - Ed[/I]]

Debt management operations.

[END QUOTE]

Any thoughts? Looks to me as if it is exactly what we are expecting, and that it is time to send the next letter, which seems to cover the situation (unarranged o/d as per CC Regs 2010). I assume the best thing to do is wait 19 of the 21 days before replying to them, and then to send them Letter 2...

[debtguy]

Re: Unenforceable Overdrafts - CCA Information

Now I've had a letter apologising because I have complained to them, and saying they need more time to deal with the complaint!

I hope the letter on Page 1 is giving them a proper old headache!

[debtguy]

Re: Unenforceable Overdrafts - CCA Information

Meant to say before - I've had a holding reply from NatWest in response to my version of the letter on Page 1 - will keep you posted on what happens...

[debtguy]

Re: Unenforceable Overdrafts - CCA Information

[QUOTE=Bricktop;558928]
(if they say that it is built in to my bank account I would wager they do not have a signed agreement or true copy for that as I had the account for over 20 years)
[/QUOTE]

Had mine for 40! Good luck on finding THAT agreement, chaps!

[debtguy]

Re: Unenforceable Overdrafts - CCA Information

[QUOTE=Bricktop;558928][I][SIZE=3]'the bank does not require customers to sign an agreement under the Consumer Credit Act in order for an overdraft facility to be applied to their account...'[/SIZE]
[/I][/QUOTE][SIZE=3]
I'll wait to see what Niddy and the Wise Owls say, but my immediate reaction to this is - who gives a toss whether the bank requires customers to sign an agreement under the CCA?

Surely it's what the law says that matters, not the fact that NatWest might like to make things up as they go along?

What an utter, utter, utter bunch of tossers - you couldn't make them up.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=3]
[/SIZE][QUOTE=Bricktop;558928]
[SIZE=3]do you happen to work for Nat West ? :p[/SIZE][SIZE=3]
[/SIZE][/QUOTE][SIZE=3]
If I did, I'd have people owing me a fortune rather than (allegedly!) owing them a fortune... :)[/SIZE]