Unenforceable Overdrafts - CCA Information

[CleverClogs (RIP)]

Re: Pookies UE Diary

[QUOTE=pooksthebear;156994]My letter from Cabot said:

[I][B]I understand you have made a request for information pertaining to your account pursuant to section 77/78 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 ("CCA").

There is no need for us to provide a copy of your credit agreement under the CCA for Current Accounts and Overdraft Facilities, as Part V of the CCA does not apply to these types of accounts. The exclusion of Current Accounts fallling into Part V of the CCA is set out in section 74(1)(b).[/B][/I][/QUOTE]
As one might expect of Cabot, they have been somewhat economical with the actualité - [URL="http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1974/39/section/74"][B]link[/B][/URL]:
[QUOTE][B]74 Exclusion of certain agreements from Part V.[/B]
(1)Except as provided in subsections (1A) to (2), this Part does not apply to—
(a)a non-commercial agreement,
(b)a debtor-creditor agreement enabling the debtor to overdraw on a current account, ... etc.[/QUOTE]
They seem either not to know, or not to care, that paragraph (1) now contains the words "[B]Except as provided in subsections (1A) to (2)[/B]". Subsection (1C) applies to your overdraft:
[QUOTE](1C)Where an agreement that falls within subsection (1)(b) is an authorised non-business overdraft agreement the following provisions apply—[INDENT](a)section 55 (regulations on disclosure of information);
(b)section 55B (assessment of creditworthiness);
(c)section 55C (copy of draft consumer credit agreement);
(d)section 56 (antecedent negotiations);
(e)section 60 (regulations on form and content of agreements);
(f)section 61B (duty to supply copy of overdraft agreement).[/INDENT][/QUOTE]
It's probably anyone's guess quite why Cabot continues to claim that section 74(1)(b) excludes overdrafts as it did before the law was changed; I suspect it may be because they do not have a copy of the documents, cannot obtain a copy of the documents or even that some of the documents may no longer exist.

[pooksthebear]

Re: Pookies UE Diary

[QUOTE=Flowerpower;157007]Hi,

It's not really me who's dealing with Cabot on that thread, it's from Flossy's diary. I posted the link because you were after bits of legislation regarding O/Ds and Niddy drafted that letter in response to Cabot's letter which says exactly the same as yours. It's not a CCA request as such but a request for information as set out here ---> [url="http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1974/39/part/VA"][B][COLOR="Purple"]Consumer Credit Act 1974[/COLOR][/B][/url]

It's one of them 'Niddy specials'. He may have drafted it after your response from Cabot.[/QUOTE]

Ok, thanks ever so much. Yeah Flossy's!! Sorry, I'm just very confused over all the legislation. Looking at Clever Clogs' post overdrafts are no longer exempt, I looked at the link from Clever Clogs but didnt understand any of it let alone know how to put it in a letter. I just want to make sure I'm sending the right stuff and quoting the right stuff otherwise they are gonna know I know nothing haha! I will rehash the 'Niddy special' letter and send that then. Thanks again and sorry for being a pest.

Pooks

[pooksthebear]

Re: Pookies UE Diary

Hi all again... right im very very confused now after reading back through my posts regarding the Yorkshire Bank overdraft now with Cabot haha. Page 3 and 4 it seems the opinion is that the overdraft is not covered and they dont have to send a CCA. Page 6 a post from Clever Clogs states regulations now changed and they are not exempt and Flower Power's link on the above post, seem to also suggest they are not exempt. Does anyone know please? Shall I send a copy of the same letter that Flower sent?

Thanks, Pooks

[pooksthebear]

Re: Pookies UE Diary

[QUOTE=Flowerpower;156435]You may want to look at this --->[B][COLOR=Purple][URL="http://forums.all-about-debt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=149318&postcount=44"]allaboutFORUMS - View Single Post - Flossy UE Diary YB Hassle[/URL][/COLOR][/B] - although it would need to be adapted to suit.[/QUOTE]

Thanks for this but I am confused.... I dont know how to copy bits of threads but on page 4 of this thread I put a post about my reply from a couple of creditors including Cabot in relation to my bank account overdraft... here is what I put and Niddy's response.. it was only a few weeks ago so im confused as to why your's is different to mine when they are both with Cabot and both in relation to overdrafts.

[I][B]Cabot who have sent my postal order back and state there is no need for them to provide a copy of my credit agreement as it does not apply to current accounts. They go on to say i have a £1206 balance and a payment plan for arranged for monthly instalments of £5.47.. hmmm not any more! Should I now contact Cabot and arrange to continue paying this privately?[/B][/I]

Thanks, Pooks

This was Niddy's response..

[I][B]correct, you ought to be trying to make a F&F, say around £100 to close this.... if you have it of course?[/B][/I]

My letter from Cabot said:

[I][B]I understand you have made a request for information pertaining to your account pursuant to section 77/78 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 ("CCA").

There is no need for us to provide a copy of your credit agreement under the CCA for Current Accounts and Overdraft Facilities, as Part V of the CCA does not apply to these types of accounts. The exclusion of Current Accounts fallling into Part V of the CCA is set out in section 74(1)(b). I have therefore returned your £1.00 fee with this letter.[/B][/I]

Im confused as it appears to be the same letter you got... wonder if Niddy thought I was meaning something else as he agreed they did not have to supply it??

Thanks, Pooks

[DNW]

Re: DNW's UE Diary

[QUOTE=Never-In-Doubt;156036]Hiya

Before commencing any payments please speak to myself or I2D as we tend to follow what the right thing to do is - you made an error of judgment and should not have recommenced payments here.

However not a lot we can do, it's done now.

I would either continue repaying small token payments now, the overdraft fight is still quite new and yes, you will notice on this thread I have touched on it a bit - read the first couple of pages leading up to the template here (---> [URL="http://forums.all-about-debt.co.uk/showthread.php?p=149318#post149318"]Flossy UE Diary YB Hassle - Page 3 - allaboutFORUMS[/URL] ) however banks etc still fob us off and [B]may [/B]still take action.

See if you can get a refund of charges etc first - that should bring the balance down a lot.....[/QUOTE]



Thanks Niddy, I was just treating it the same as all our other enforceables - they've all been getting token payments since being deemed enforceable so long as they had issued DN - Natwest were just slower to default. While the (en) creditors have been receiving token payments, everything has been exceptionally quiet so it's worth £1 a month for the longer term plan (it's my understanding that the best I can hope for with enforceable debts is for them to drag on and on until they're eventually sold off and I can hit them with low F&F as and when they start leaning more heavily).

So at the moment I'm just sitting tight and wait for Westcot to start leaning more heavily.

How would I find out what charges have been added? Or should I post in the reclaiming section about that?

[pooksthebear]

Re: Pookies UE Diary

[QUOTE=Drowning Not Waving;156018]I'm also very interested to know if there's a template/letter to be sent - our overdraft account has just been passed to DCA a couple of days ago and I've sent nothing in response as yet.[/QUOTE]

Yeah I really could do with sending something to Cabot with the telephone harassment letter, saves on two lots of recorded delivery haha.

On a more serious note, can anyone tell us please if there is a new template letter containing the correct legislation/reg number to quote. If I send them another CCA letter they are just going to return it saying they don't have to comply as I believe the letter refers to a different section of the law to the new bit that now includes bank account overdrafts. Also, will the new legislation cover my overdraft debt seeing as this debt goes back quite a number of years?

Thanks, Pooks

[GlobalC]

Re: globalcrossings's UE diary

Thanks once again everyone for your tremendous help, i will now stop paying into this overdraft and will update as and when. I did forget to mention that i actually have 2 Natpest overdrafts and a buisness overdraft to all of which i will not be paying into. Buisness OD i have not payed into for over a year.
Will send off a cca to PO:luck

[Deepie]

Re: globalcrossings's UE diary

[QUOTE=globalcrossings;156049]Thanks I2d, mbna im waiting for them to default me or at least write something meaningful, will update.

Am i right in thinking that overdrafts are always enforceable, and that if i stop payments i would be looking at defaulting and making f&f's?

I always thought the PO card would be enforeceable but i guess there's no harm in trying.

Thanks[/QUOTE]
Have a read here about overdrafts >....[URL]http://forums.all-about-debt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=156036&postcount=322[/URL]

[Never-In-Doubt]

Re: globalcrossings's UE diary

Did you see this regards OD's: ---> [B][URL="http://forums.all-about-debt.co.uk/showthread.php?p=149318#post149318"]Flossy UE Diary YB Hassle - Page 3 - allaboutFORUMS[/URL][/B]

Not always enforceable but just cease paying, and they will eventually bugger off :lol

[GlobalC]

Re: globalcrossings's UE diary

Thanks I2d, mbna im waiting for them to default me or at least write something meaningful, will update.

Am i right in thinking that overdrafts are always enforceable, and that if i stop payments i would be looking at defaulting and making f&f's?

I always thought the PO card would be enforeceable but i guess there's no harm in trying.

Thanks

[Never-In-Doubt]

Re: DNW's UE Diary

[QUOTE=Drowning Not Waving;156020][B]UPDATE[/B]

[COLOR=Red]10/02/12 Received - Westcot - They are now dealing with this account and would be glad to hear from us as to when we are going to pay.[/COLOR]


CleverClogs posted on another thread that overdrafts should have an agreement available - I've never sent Natwest anything other than a couple of letters telling them we're in financial difficulty and that we'll pay them more than token payments as and when we can afford them. I stopped any payments for a few months to hurry along the default notice, but the SB clock will have re-started now as I reinstated token payments at the end of Jan 12 believing all overdrafts are enforceable.

Should I have sent a CCA type request to them in the beginning? And/or, is there anything I should be doing now? Should I continue token payments or stop them again? :confused[/QUOTE] Hiya

Before commencing any payments please speak to myself or I2D as we tend to follow what the right thing to do is - you made an error of judgment and should not have recommenced payments here.

However not a lot we can do, it's done now.

I would either continue repaying small token payments now, the overdraft fight is still quite new and yes, you will notice on this thread I have touched on it a bit - read the first couple of pages leading up to the template here (---> [URL="http://forums.all-about-debt.co.uk/showthread.php?p=149318#post149318"]Flossy UE Diary YB Hassle - Page 3 - allaboutFORUMS[/URL] ) however banks etc still fob us off and [B]may [/B]still take action.

See if you can get a refund of charges etc first - that should bring the balance down a lot.....

[Deepie]

Re: DNW's UE Diary

[QUOTE=Drowning Not Waving;156020][B]UPDATE[/B]

[COLOR=red]10/02/12 Received - Westcot - They are now dealing with this account and would be glad to hear from us as to when we are going to pay.[/COLOR]


CleverClogs posted on another thread that overdrafts should have an agreement available - I've never sent Natwest anything other than a couple of letters telling them we're in financial difficulty and that we'll pay them more than token payments as and when we can afford them. I stopped any payments for a few months to hurry along the default notice, but the SB clock will have re-started now as I reinstated token payments at the end of Jan 12 believing all overdrafts are enforceable.

Should I have sent a CCA type request to them in the beginning? And/or, is there anything I should be doing now? Should I continue token payments or stop them again? :confused[/QUOTE]
I Found this ..> [URL]http://forums.all-about-debt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=149318&postcount=44[/URL]


[B]Added by Niddy[/B]
But it is not suitable for you however it does explain overdrafts and what the bank do need to send to you.

[DNW]

Re: DNW's UE Diary

[QUOTE=Drowning Not Waving;103753][SIZE=6][COLOR=DarkOrchid][COLOR=Magenta]Natwest Overdraft[/COLOR][/COLOR][/SIZE]

[code]
[B][FONT=Courier New]Name[/FONT][/B][FONT=Courier New] - Natwest[/FONT]
[FONT=courier new][B]Type of account[/B] - Overdraft[/FONT]
[FONT=courier new][B]Date commenced[/B] - Oct 2000[/FONT]
[FONT=courier new][B]Approx balance[/B] - £2,181[/FONT]
[FONT=courier new][B]Date last paid[/B] - Mar-11 [/FONT]
[FONT=courier new][B]Arrangement/not paying[/B] - Not paying[/FONT]
[FONT=courier new][B]Status[/B] - In Arrears [/FONT]
[FONT=courier new][B]Account owner[/B] - Lender
[/FONT]
[/code][B]Key:[/B]
[COLOR=Red]Them[/COLOR]
[COLOR=Blue]Me[/COLOR]
[COLOR=Lime]Other[/COLOR]

[B][U]Activity[/U][/B]
[LIST=1][*][COLOR=red]31/05/11 Letter refusing to accept I&E form[/COLOR][*][COLOR=red]04/07/11 Letter reminding over OD limit and chages now £6 per day[/COLOR][*][COLOR=red]12/07/11 Letter asking for contact to discuss[/COLOR][*][COLOR=Blue]12/07/11 Phone call - Natwest won't default until balance reaches -£2250. I&E completed verbally[/COLOR][*][COLOR=red]04/07/11 Overlimit OD - £6 per day charges[/COLOR][*][COLOR=red]02/08/11 Letter asking for I&E[/COLOR][*][COLOR=red]04/08/11 Unarranged OD fee warning[/COLOR][*][COLOR=red]05/08/11 Breakdown of OD fees[/COLOR][*][COLOR=red][COLOR=Blue]30/08/11 Ceased token payment (to hurry along the default)[/COLOR]
[/COLOR][*][COLOR=red]12/09/11 Letter from Natwest - please contact us (ignored)[/COLOR][*][COLOR=red]29/09/11 [/COLOR][COLOR=red]Letter from Natwest - please contact us (ignored)[/COLOR][*][COLOR=red]11/10/11 Letter from Power 2 Contact - please contact us (ignored)[/COLOR][*][COLOR=red]19/10/11 Doorstep visit from Power 2 Contact (answered and contact card left for OH)[/COLOR][*][COLOR=red]19/10/11 [COLOR=Blue]Letter sent to Natwest - No visits and please consider stopping/refunding charges[/COLOR][/COLOR][*][COLOR=red]04/11/11 Letter from Natwest - they're sorry I had to complain, they're looking into it[/COLOR][*][COLOR=red]14/11/11 Letter from Natwest - they're still investigating complaint
[/COLOR][*][COLOR=red]16/12/11 Letter from Natwest - Notice of intention to file a default, and DN received[/COLOR][*][COLOR=red]19/12/11 Letter from Natwest - Notice of default sums[/COLOR] (they charged £30 to issue a DN!)[*][COLOR=red]05/01/12 Letter from Natwest - It's not to late to contact us to sort this out[/COLOR][*][COLOR=red]18/01/12 Letter from Natwest - Terminating overdraft agreement and demand the account is paid in full. However they also offer the option to agree a mutually acceptable repayment plan.[/COLOR][*][COLOR=red][COLOR=Blue]31/01/12 Sent to Natwest - letter requesting refund of charges and resumed token payments[/COLOR]
[/COLOR][/LIST][/QUOTE]


[B]UPDATE[/B]

[COLOR="Red"]10/02/12 Received - Westcot - They are now dealing with this account and would be glad to hear from us as to when we are going to pay.[/COLOR]


CleverClogs posted on another thread that overdrafts should have an agreement available - I've never sent Natwest anything other than a couple of letters telling them we're in financial difficulty and that we'll pay them more than token payments as and when we can afford them. I stopped any payments for a few months to hurry along the default notice, but the SB clock will have re-started now as I reinstated token payments at the end of Jan 12 believing all overdrafts are enforceable.

Should I have sent a CCA type request to them in the beginning? And/or, is there anything I should be doing now? Should I continue token payments or stop them again? :confused

[DNW]

Re: Pookies UE Diary

[QUOTE=CleverClogs;154862]As it was not a regulated consumer credit agreement, they do not need to send such an agreement as that agreement does not exist. However, the creditor does need to prove that the money is owed and that, if the alleged debt has been assigned to them, that the alleged debt is owed to them.


No, they're not.

The law has been changed ([URL="http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1974/39/part/VA"][B]link[/B][/URL] and overdrafts are no longer excluded. They now have to comply with section 61A ([URL="http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1974/39/section/61A"][B]link[/B][/URL] - duty to supply copy of executed consumer credit agreement) and/or section 61B ([URL="http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1974/39/section/61B"][B]link[/B][/URL] - duty to supply copy of overdraft agreement) and failure so to do may impair their chances of enforcing the alleged debt.


It's about time that was stopped.
[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=pooksthebear;155545]Oh I didnt know that, has it recently been changed then? Is there a template letter I could send them as they refused to comply with the first request saying it was not covered by the consumer credit act and therefore they did not need to send it.
[/QUOTE]



I'm also very interested to know if there's a template/letter to be sent - our overdraft account has just been passed to DCA a couple of days ago and I've sent nothing in response as yet.

[CleverClogs (RIP)]

Re: Pookies UE Diary

[QUOTE=pooksthebear;155851]Yes im worrying because defaults coming off and its all gone so quiet... makes me think 'they' are up to something!![/QUOTE]
Which they are, of course.

They're busy bothering other people who don't fight back. :grinning