My son's consumer rights buying used car/recurring problems

[di30]

Re: My son's consumer rights buying used car/recurring problems

Thank you Bricktop

Yep I remember some time back when we had our Focus flywheel replaced, that involves clutch etc, it cost us directly with the Ford dealer just over £1250, we did have a bit of a discount though, so we never actually paid all that, thankfully.

Right an update, the garage where my son is keeping the car, the guy was actually speaking directly to the dealer (in front of hubby) as my son is on call, so hubby went to find out what is going on. The guy at the garage was actually or practically having a go at the dealer, and said it should be the dealer lending out the car and not them (even though they didnt mind, coz we actually know the guy who works in the garage as well, so that helped).

It's now in the hands of the finance team, where its been said they are to take the car apart (where necessary) to see what the problem could be, as this time they MUST get it right. We should have some news on Monday now, so fingers crossed. (So flywheel, clutch or whatever really, best to get it thoroughly checked) before getting the job done!

Apparantely the guy at the garage said he's had a few issues with the dealer now and had enough, more sharp words were said, best not to repeat them really lol, but as long as the job gets done properly then there be it. My son has had hardly any use of the car since he had it.

[Bricktop]

Re: My son's consumer rights buying used car/recurring problems

It could actually be the "Flywheel" yep so a costly job!!

For info

A flywheel is the part the clutch bolts to. The flywheel will not be the problem, however it could be damaged by a faulty clutch.

The usual time a flywheel goes faulty is if it is a dual mass flywheel and the coupling has excess play, car will sound like a bag of spanners when letting up the clutch if that is the case.

But the gearbox needs to be removed in any case, the authority for g/box removal should have been asked for a while back and the job proceeded with imo.

[di30]

Re: My son's consumer rights buying used car/recurring problems

Some interesting info on "The OFT" Buying used car rights.......(Posted on one of my above posts)

Examples of Breaches of Professional Diligence: (Page 12)
Systematically failing to carry out the
pre-sale checks that you would
reasonably be expected to undertake in
relation to the mechanical condition,
history, and mileage of a vehicle before
you advertise, market or sell it.
• Obstructing consumers who have
bought vehicles of unsatisfactory quality
from you and are trying to exercise their
contractual rights to redress under the
SoGA – for example if you refuse to
listen to complaints or wrongly tell
consumers that they have no right to
redress (such as to reject the vehicle or
have it repaired or replaced by you).
• Failing to deal with complaints at all or
in an honest, fair, reasonable and
professional manner.

Page 18


Warranties/Guarantees

5.30 The key elements of a warranty or
guarantee should be clearly drawn to
the attention of consumers prior to sale.
This includes, for example:
• details of what is covered and what is
not covered
• claim limits
• conditions that need to be followed for
the warranty/guarantee to remain valid
• the geographical scope of the
warranty/guarantee
• the claims procedure.
5.31 Any relevant document published by
the warranty/guarantee provider should
also be handed over to the consumer.
The consumer should be advised of what
type of warranty/guarantee is being
provided, for example, manufacturer’s,
free extended manufacturer’s/dealer’s,
insurance backed or dealer’s own
warranty/guarantee. The consumer
should be informed of the identity of the
warranty/guarantee provider and the
address to which claims may be directed.
The different types of warranty/guarantee
and any significant differences between
them should be explained to consumers
as appropriate.
5.32 You should also give advice to
consumers about who they should
address a claim to if they have a
problem regarding defective parts
and accessories not covered by the
warranty or guarantee.

After-sales service

Complaints and enquiries

5.33 You should have an accessible,
appropriate and user friendly after-sales
procedure to ensure that all consumer
enquiries are dealt with in an honest, fair,
professional and reasonable manner.
5.34 You should have an effective customer
complaints procedure, understood and
followed by all staff who may come into
contact with the public. We recommend
that you have a written complaints
procedure.
5.35 You should deal with complaints promptly,
effectively and in a professional manner.
5.36 You should make your best efforts to find
a satisfactory solution to complaints. You
need to ensure that the steps you take to
satisfy the consumer are in accordance
with reasonable expectations.
5.37 You should record all complaints and
note the final outcome. You should keep
complaint records.
5.38 You should cooperate with any appropriate
representative or intermediary, for
example a Trading Standards Service or
Citizens Advice Bureau, consulted by a
consumer in respect of a complaint.

Warranties

5.39 You should ensure that warranty work
is carried out promptly and that your
estimated timescale for completion
is made clear to the consumer before
any work has commenced. You should
keep the consumer informed if it is
subsequently discovered that the work
has to take longer, for example, because
further problems have been

Contractual obligations

5.40 You should follow practices and
procedures that ensure that you fulfil your
contractual commitments to consumers,
for example:
• By providing appropriate redress to
consumers who are seeking to enforce
their contractual rights against you
under the SoGA where vehicles are
of unsatisfactory quality, unfit for their
purpose or not as you described them.
• Carrying out repairs to consumers’
faulty vehicles with reasonable care
and skill and within a reasonable
time (or within the specific time
agreed) in accordance with your legal
obligations under the Supply of Goods
and Services Act 1982 (consumers in
Scotland enjoy similar rights under the
common law).

Aggressive practices

5.41 You must not intimidate, pressurise
or coerce consumers, for example
through the use of threatening or
abusive language, or threatening to take
action which cannot legally be taken,
into dropping complaints against your
business. Any aggressive practice that
is likely to cause an average consumer
to take a different decision is prohibited
under the CPRs (see para 4.7).

[di30]

Re: My son's consumer rights buying used car/recurring problems

Some interesting info on "The OFT" Buying used car rights.......(Posted on one of my above posts)

Examples of Breaches of Professional Diligence: (Page 12)
Systematically failing to carry out the
pre-sale checks that you would
reasonably be expected to undertake in
relation to the mechanical condition,
history, and mileage of a vehicle before
you advertise, market or sell it.
• Obstructing consumers who have
bought vehicles of unsatisfactory quality
from you and are trying to exercise their
contractual rights to redress under the
SoGA – for example if you refuse to
listen to complaints or wrongly tell
consumers that they have no right to
redress (such as to reject the vehicle or
have it repaired or replaced by you).
• Failing to deal with complaints at all or
in an honest, fair, reasonable and
professional manner.

Page 18


Warranties/Guarantees

5.30 The key elements of a warranty or
guarantee should be clearly drawn to
the attention of consumers prior to sale.
This includes, for example:
• details of what is covered and what is
not covered
• claim limits
• conditions that need to be followed for
the warranty/guarantee to remain valid
• the geographical scope of the
warranty/guarantee
• the claims procedure.
5.31 Any relevant document published by
the warranty/guarantee provider should
also be handed over to the consumer.
The consumer should be advised of what
type of warranty/guarantee is being
provided, for example, manufacturer’s,
free extended manufacturer’s/dealer’s,
insurance backed or dealer’s own
warranty/guarantee. The consumer
should be informed of the identity of the
warranty/guarantee provider and the
address to which claims may be directed.
The different types of warranty/guarantee
and any significant differences between
them should be explained to consumers
as appropriate.
5.32 You should also give advice to
consumers about who they should
address a claim to if they have a
problem regarding defective parts
and accessories not covered by the
warranty or guarantee.

After-sales service

Complaints and enquiries

5.33 You should have an accessible,
appropriate and user friendly after-sales
procedure to ensure that all consumer
enquiries are dealt with in an honest, fair,
professional and reasonable manner.
5.34 You should have an effective customer
complaints procedure, understood and
followed by all staff who may come into
contact with the public. We recommend
that you have a written complaints
procedure.
5.35 You should deal with complaints promptly,
effectively and in a professional manner.
5.36 You should make your best efforts to find
a satisfactory solution to complaints. You
need to ensure that the steps you take to
satisfy the consumer are in accordance
with reasonable expectations.
5.37 You should record all complaints and
note the final outcome. You should keep
complaint records.
5.38 You should cooperate with any appropriate
representative or intermediary, for
example a Trading Standards Service or
Citizens Advice Bureau, consulted by a
consumer in respect of a complaint.

Warranties

5.39 You should ensure that warranty work
is carried out promptly and that your
estimated timescale for completion
is made clear to the consumer before
any work has commenced. You should
keep the consumer informed if it is
subsequently discovered that the work
has to take longer, for example, because
further problems have been

Contractual obligations

5.40 You should follow practices and
procedures that ensure that you fulfil your
contractual commitments to consumers,
for example:
• By providing appropriate redress to
consumers who are seeking to enforce
their contractual rights against you
under the SoGA where vehicles are
of unsatisfactory quality, unfit for their
purpose or not as you described them.
• Carrying out repairs to consumers’
faulty vehicles with reasonable care
and skill and within a reasonable
time (or within the specific time
agreed) in accordance with your legal
obligations under the Supply of Goods
and Services Act 1982 (consumers in
Scotland enjoy similar rights under the
common law).

Aggressive practices

5.41 You must not intimidate, pressurise
or coerce consumers, for example
through the use of threatening or
abusive language, or threatening to take
action which cannot legally be taken,
into dropping complaints against your
business. Any aggressive practice that
is likely to cause an average consumer
to take a different decision is prohibited
under the CPRs (see para 4.7).

[di30]

Re: My son's consumer rights buying used car/recurring problems

Right this was just briefly over the phone to my son.

It could actually be the "Flywheel" yep so a costly job!!

The garage who has his car rang over to the dealer today and "yep" he's coincidentally off, well that was what the co-worker had told the guy over the garage.
If I get the chance, I shall take a little peep in myself when passing by as the dealer garage doesnt close until 8pm.

[di30]

Re: My son's consumer rights buying used car/recurring problems

That's what they did say, so yes that is fair, if they do this, see what happens........;-)

[Bricktop]

Re: My son's consumer rights buying used car/recurring problems

They will refund any fuel he uses ?

That is really good of them to be fair.

[di30]

Re: My son's consumer rights buying used car/recurring problems

In other words they lent him a car out of courtesy, whatever fuel he uses it will be refunded, yeah I know it doesnt make sense, but we are on to it, he needs a car due to his job being on call :-)

[Bricktop]

Re: My son's consumer rights buying used car/recurring problems

The garage where my son is borrowing a car is not a courtesy car as such, but he did not have to pay to borrow it,

Does not compute........

[di30]

Re: My son's consumer rights buying used car/recurring problems

Hi folks
Thank you all for your interesting and helpful comments.

Right at this current time my son's car is still in and the dealer gave in to get the car fully looked at, although it will still come down to the same category of the clutch.
Once its done then we are going for the request of the reimbursements of out of cost expenses, fuel etc and the inconvenience it all caused.

The garage where my son is borrowing a car is not a courtesy car as such, but he did not have to pay to borrow it, but is putitng fuel in and then getting it all back once his car issues are dealt with. The garage is not attached to the dealer, as its 3 or 4 miles away, but they do have joint business dealings, like if customers have warranty then cars are dealt with by the relevant named garage as such that one where my son has left his car to be dealt with.

We have kept all receipts of everything extra spent etc, travelling, fuel and so...

I have made contact with Trading Standards who said that my son does have a very good case, so we keeping them informed and if any probs, then they will be dealing with the matter.

I did not know the exact cost of the car before, but I do know now that he paid not far off £8Grand and with his old car trading in as well.

We do have a copy of the advert on docs as well.

All your comments are very helpful, I shall be referring back to them as well if needs be, thank you all x

[Bricktop]

Re: My son's consumer rights buying used car/recurring problems

My opinion fwiw, difficult to be 100% accurate but basing the following on the initial post

The clutch is never going to be covered on a used car warranty, (remote possibility if there is a manufacturing defect - check the coverage) but 99 times out of 100 the clutch is worn out - so be very careful before authorising the removal of the gearbox to inspect it, you could get hit with a large invoice.

If the clutch is heavy this could cause undue wear on the master cylinder

The warranty is not being used up on the same part - the master cylinder is now covered by the parts warranty on the item for 1 year by the garage that fitted it.

On a used car the price paid for the vehicle is for it's age and condition, defects and wear can be apparent (if you want a new car warranty buy a new car !). However the vehicle must be fit for purpose, and the advertising of the product must be accurate. If selling garage won't entertain the clutch being heavy as an issue then seek advice from local trading standards, and possibly pay for independent report on the vehicle to support your argument.

As a last resort I believe you could get the finance company involved, although I have heard of it a few times that really isn't my area so seek more advice on that.

The reason why the RAC taken it to that particular garage was because it was under the RAC warranty where they deal with them there too.

If the garage deals with RAC warranty then they should invoice the warranty company direct, not take money off the customer.

One thing: the garage lent him a car, why did he have to fill it ? surely he would just have to replace the fuel he used for his own journey (which he would have used anyway)

[di30]

Re: My son's consumer rights buying used car/recurring problems

Ooh thank you Elsa, your a star ;-) xx

[Undercover Elsa]

Re: My son's consumer rights buying used car/recurring problems

Hi Hun,
I can't access the link above...but I found this which is quite informative although it may be similar to what you found:
http://www.tradingstandards.gov.uk/c...V0003-1011.txt

Elsa x

[di30]

Re: My son's consumer rights buying used car/recurring problems

Thanks SXGuy ;-)

The reason why the RAC taken it to that particular garage was because it was under the RAC warranty where they deal with them there too.

Was reading some interesting facts on the above link on my above post about the same recurring problems where it should not touch the warranty, as he only had the car for only a month. So been reading on my son's rights.

I think my son may be on to something here........hopefully lol.

[di30]

Re: My son's consumer rights buying used car/recurring problems

Found this here, I did find rather interesting........

http://www.oft.gov.uk/shared_oft/rep...08/oft1241.pdf