HMRC

[Riz]

Re: HMRC

Thanks for that Riz.

The statutory demand has already been served on Dawn's ex-partner which leaves no time for Dawn to get a Child Maintenance Order before any bankruptcy proceedings (unless he can get that postponed due to a challenge to the amount of debt HMRC are claiming); do you think if she got an order subsequently (even by consent) this would 'slot in' to the ex-partner's BR? Or only an order which was established before the BR?

A maintenance assessment, order, or however these things are done should be valid if made before or after the bankruptcy. And as such should be taken into account by the OR as a legitimate expense.

Whether the OR would accept something less formal done purely by consent or whether they would insist the assessment/order was formally done, I don't know. If push came to shove, it would not be the OR that had the final say, as you could force it so that a judge decided if it was allowable.

Would be easier if it was formal, as OR's own guidance notes say they should accept that.

[Never-In-Doubt]

Re: HMRC

A lot of the time they will go ahead with bankruptcy even if they will lose out in the end by doing so. As a deterrent and means of closing the file.

Too right - they did it with my beloved Rangers and then just this week we were found INNOCENT on all charges but it's a bit late after the taxman forced liquidation....

[ATW]

Re: HMRC

It sounds like a statutory demand that has been served. Your ex has 18 days to apply to set it aside or to come up with a proposal that HMRC are happy with. The 18 days can be extended as long as negotiations are under way and HMRC agree to the extension. A bankruptcy petition cannot be presented to the court whilst an application to set aside a demand is outstanding.

If nothing is done then 21 days after service (and within i think 4 months of when it is served) they will issue a bankruptcy petition. HMRC make more people bust than anyone else so the threat should not be taken lightly because they will proceed with it.

He should definitely ask HMRC what they would accept if he is already making regular payments to them then he can assess whether what they want is achievable (HMRC are very much in the driving seat here). He will need to meet future liabilities to HMRC as they arise whilst paying arrears or they are unlikely to accept his proposal.

He can block a bankruptcy if he makes an IVA proposal which is accepted by creditors to whom 75% of the total of his debts is owed. The remaining creditors would then also be bound by that proposal.
The IVA proposal will probably have a variation clause too in the small print and that may deal with what happens if he misses payments so he should have a look at that although having missed payments for so long i doubt it will be good news.

[PlanB]

Re: HMRC

He can block a bankruptcy if he makes an IVA proposal which is accepted by creditors to whom 75% of the total of his debts is owed. The remaining creditors would then also be bound by that proposal.
The IVA proposal will probably have a variation clause too in the small print and that may deal with what happens if he misses payments so he should have a look at that although having missed payments for so long i doubt it will be good news.

Dawn based on what Andrew has said tell your ex-partner to get in touch with his IVA provider asap if the HMRC debt is included in that.

Or if he actually wants to go bankrupt then HMRC may well oblige.

We don't know what line of work he's in and what the ramifications of him going BR would be on you and the children, but here's a useful guide to the background:

http://forums.all-about-debt.co.uk/s...ull=1#post1224

[SXGuy]

Re: HMRC

I realise its not your debt, however id still like some more info on what the 18k is made up of, tax due, charges, interest? late filing penalties?

If it is a determination of tax due, then the debt could be considerably lower than what they are going after your ex for, in which case, it could be argued and won, and there may well not be a need to go bankrupt. I fear, it may have all been left a little too late though.

[dawnlougib]

Re: HMRC

Hi second time I had to bloody type all this out as wouldn't let me post it first time

Thank you all for your reply's you have been really helpful. I have spoke to him about questions you have asked. He says the debt is a lot of what is due plus interest and late filings. Also he thinks HMRC were included in the IVA within the first year when it started in 2009 for previous debt but obviously he hasn't paid into this for nearly 2 years so has more than likely failed although name is still on insolvency list.

He feels that with the money he owes HMRC plus the debt he is liable for when IVA fails and also the credit he has now that maybe bankruptcy will be best option as he has no assets etc and will still be able to work but with work being on and off won't be able to promise payments to HMRC or IVA.

He has asked me to ask a few questions, hope you don't mind:

• 1) What happens if he just does nothing and lets HMRC go a head with it?
• 2) Should he stop making payments now to his credit cards and other credit he has, he has catalogues and what should he tell them if they get hold of him about missed payments as it may take a while for HMRC to go ahead with it if of course they do?
• 3) Should he stop the payments on cards etc and put it aside just in case HMRC don't go ahead with it and do it himself?
• 4) If HMRC make him bankrupt how will his other debts be included? will he be sent forms to fill in about who else he owes money to?
• 5) What happens to debts that he may have forgotten and doesn't include in his bankruptcy?
• 6) What happens to his bank account as he has direct debits going out?

I am so sorry about all the questions but he has asked for help which is a miracle for him to do and he hopes you can help him with these questions and also thanks for the help on the matter of the kids. Dawn

[PlanB]

Re: HMRC

I am so sorry about all the questions but he has asked for help which is a miracle for him to do and he hopes you can help him with these questions and also thanks for the help on the matter of the kids.

Feel free to ask as many questions as you like. That's what we're here for

We've got some BR experts on board so they'll answer your questions tomorrow.

Once that has been sorted please stick around so we can help you with your debts (all in an IVA at the moment) and the matter of the kids welfare too.

[PlanB]

Re: HMRC

He says the debt is a lot of what is due plus interest and late filings. Also he thinks HMRC were included in the IVA within the first year when it started in 2009 for previous debt but obviously he hasn't paid into this for nearly 2 years so has more than likely failed although name is still on insolvency list.
He feels that with the money he owes HMRC plus the debt he is liable for when IVA fails and also the credit he has now that maybe bankruptcy will be best option

You may need to establish whether your ex can still challenge the amount HMRC says is owed even if he goes BR.

When did the IVA start? Is there a possibility that the HMRC debt included in the IVA was over inflated which may have contributed to his inability to keep it going?

Can you name the IVA provider - some are better than others and we know of a few rogues in the game.

[dawnlougib]

Re: HMRC

The IVA started in 2009 and HMRC was included with debts that had occured before then. I have no idea on the over inflation I just know that he hasn't been making his payments and he stopped making the payments on his IVA when we seperated as at first I was making the payments alone when we first split and my own payment was being split between mine and his but when I let him know that I could no longer continue this and creditors agreed that It could be split I carried on alone and he never contacted them.

The company at the time was simple debt solutions but then a company called credit fix took them over and they deal with mine and they also still have the account on computer that was in joint names although none of the debts were in joint .

[diddlydee]

Re: HMRC

1) What happens if he just does nothing and lets HMRC go a head with it?
It can take a long time for HMRC to actually get their arses in order and go ahead with bankruptcy proceedings. Bankruptcy itself, whilst a serious decision to make, is fairly straightforward. It is the waiting which is the worst bit, in my opinion.

2) Should he stop making payments now to his credit cards and other credit he has, he has catalogues and what should he tell them if they get hold of him about missed payments as it may take a while for HMRC to go ahead with it if of course they do?
If you have made the decision that bankruptcy is the right path for you, then I personally can't see any point in making payments. Put the money aside that you would pay the creditors and save it for the bankruptcy fee. Should HMRC not instigate proceedings, you will be able to do it yourself if you have the funds

3) Should he stop the payments on cards etc and put it aside just in case HMRC don't go ahead with it and do it himself?
See 2 above. Bankruptcy is a very personal decision so we can't really tell him to go ahead, that is up to him. Perhaps he can seek advice from a debt charity

4) If HMRC make him bankrupt how will his other debts be included? will he be sent forms to fill in about who else he owes money to?
Yes and yes. He will be sent a comprehensive form to fill in listing all of his debts, his incomings and outgoings. Come back here for help on filling the forms in. All debts should be included and we'll help you with what expenses can be added to ensure you aren't under estimating the costs of living.

5) What happens to debts that he may have forgotten and doesn't include in his bankruptcy?
It isn't ideal to forget stuff, but if you do, I believe you can contact the OR and have them included. Don't worry but try and get it right as much as possible

and last one

6) What happens to his bank account as he has direct debits going out?
Once you are made BR, the OR will write to your bank and the account will likely be frozen. Barclays (for example) will usually allow you a basic bank account, so you can open one of these and inform all of the people you pay direct debits to of your new bank account.

I hope the above helps a little. Others with more experience will probably pop by and give you more assistance. You aren't alone; making the decision and the waiting are the hardest parts.

Good luck xx