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How to pay a F&F and determine if it's a legit offer?

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  • How to pay a F&F and determine if it's a legit offer?

    Can anyone direct me to a link / template for accepting and paying a full and final settlement offer from a DCA?

    I have read through many of the threads and tried to find advice. From memory many years back when researching these matters elsewhere, I seem to remember being advised to send a cheque through a third party, with something written on the reverse stating that banking this will constitute final settlement?


    I have a letter from them (my details excluded, that I could scan up if it helps) as would like advice as to whether it is a legitimate full and final settlement, that they wouldn't just be able to take it off the balance and sell it on.

    And also advice as to the best method of payment if it is a legitimate offer to finally settle.

    I haven't started a diary as may settle this soon.

    It may be UE, but is still at least two years from SB (when last reduced payment was made to in house HSBC, before it was sold on)

    Now with Cabot / Ruthbridge.
    It was a CC taken out around 2004/5 ;
    last full payment around 2009; I SAR'd HSBC then, and they sent me paperwork for both of my debts, reconstituted I think on both;

    last reduced payment summer 2015 when I moved house.
    I haven't replied to any letters from them which began arriving in last couple of years.

    They offered me a settlement of 30% a few months ago, to be paid by mid of the then next week, and they have now written to offer settlement of 20% again to be paid by this time next week.

    For personal reasons, it is tempting to settle, as don't want them chasing me forever, and am now married, want to move on etc.


    (I am aware that there are issues with Cabot and buying of bad debts, maybe not allowed to pursue debts)


    thanks for any help

  • #2
    start your diary so that we can suggest the best way, why pay up when you may not owe them???
    I'm an official AAD Moderator and also a volunteer, here to help make the forum run smoothly. Any views or opinions are mine and not the official line of AAD. Similarly, any advice I have offered you is done so on an informal basis, without prejudice or liability. If in doubt seek advice from a qualified insured professional - Find a Solicitor or go to the National Probono Centre.

    If you spot an abusive or libellous post then please report it by Clicking Here. If you need to contact me, for instance if I've issued you a warning, moved, edited or deleted your post, please send me a message by clicking my username.

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by finn derry View Post
      Now with Cabot / Ruthbridge.
      It was a CC taken out around 2004/5 ;
      last full payment around 2009; I SAR'd HSBC then, and they sent me paperwork for both of my debts, reconstituted I think on both;

      (I am aware that there are issues with Cabot and buying of bad debts, maybe not allowed to pursue debts)


      Hello

      First things first. Have you sent a s78 CCA Request to Cabot?

      You say you sent a SAR to HSBC in 2009 but that is a different issue. Debt purchasers don't necessarily have access to information held by the original creditor.

      Then I'm gong to move on to the end of your first post.

      Which Cabot entity currently owns this debt? Is it Cabot Financial Ltd , or Cabot Financial (UK) Ltd or maybe MFS (Marlin Financial Services) because if the current debt owner is not FCA authorised then they may be prevented from making a claim against you which means you should consider whether a F & F settlement is necessary.

      Jo explains this important legal issue here following a recent court ruling >


      Originally posted by Joanna Connolly View Post
      The Cabot group of companies have issues with their assignment process and documentation, as was shown in our recent cases of MFS Portfolio V Phelan & West. We won this case at appeal, following days of argument and counter argument. Part of the judgment confirmed our position both on assignment and that personal account overdrafts are subject to the regulatory framework of the Consumer Credit Act, including S.78 CCA 1974.

      The judgment, however, was not all in our favour. The Circuit Judge ruled in favour of MFS Portfolio on a point relating to the use of servicing agents to avoid authorisation by the Financial Conduct Authority under the para 55 FSMA 2000 servicing exemption which we believed to be wrong. However, as we had won the appeal for our client, we were unable to appeal this judgment to the Court of Appeal.

      We did however 2 months later obtain another Circuit Judge decision in the Idem Capital Securities Limited case that debt purchasers who are not authorised cannot issue proceedings in the county court regardless of whether there is a para 55 FSMA 2000 servicing agreement in place. Idem did not appeal the judgment.

      We currently have other cases going through the courts, which will hopefully obtain binding decisions both on lack of authorisation by the Financial Conduct Authority and other issues too.

      My point is before you make any F & F settlement offer it would make sense to establish your legal position first.

      I look forward to helping you decide what to do next.

      Di

      Legal Disclaimer

      I am a Litigation Executive at Joanna Connolly Solicitors a firm which specialises in consumer credit. If you need to contact me you can send a message by clicking on my username or by emailing me at di@joannaconnollysolicitors.co.uk or by telephoning 0330 053 9340. Our initial advice is always free.

      Any posts I make on the AAD Consumer Forum are for information and discussion purposes only and shouldn't be seen as legal advice. Any advice I provide on the forum is without liability. If you are unsure please seek formal legal guidance or contact your local citizens advice bureau at https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk

      Comment


      • #4
        Just in addition to what Di has said/asked

        You said 30% - was that a discount of 30% i.e. you pay 70% or was it a 30% offer, i.e. you pay 30% and save 70%

        I ask because I received a 75% discount offer from MEIII (part of cabot) where they only asked for 25% of the balance- well they asked and I ignored

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Warwick65 View Post
          Just in addition to what Di has said/asked

          You said 30% - was that a discount of 30% i.e. you pay 70% or was it a 30% offer, i.e. you pay 30% and save 70%

          I ask because I received a 75% discount offer from MEIII (part of cabot) where they only asked for 25% of the balance- well they asked and I ignored


          Hi, it was a 30% discount a few months back and now they're offering an 80% discount.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Diana Mayhew View Post



            Hello

            First things first. Have you sent a s78 CCA Request to Cabot?

            You say you sent a SAR to HSBC in 2009 but that is a different issue. Debt purchasers don't necessarily have access to information held by the original creditor.

            Then I'm gong to move on to the end of your first post.

            Which Cabot entity currently owns this debt? Is it Cabot Financial Ltd , or Cabot Financial (UK) Ltd or maybe MFS (Marlin Financial Services) because if the current debt owner is not FCA authorised then they may be prevented from making a claim against you which means you should consider whether a F & F settlement is necessary.

            Jo explains this important legal issue here following a recent court ruling >





            My point is before you make any F & F settlement offer it would make sense to establish your legal position first.

            I look forward to helping you decide what to do next.

            Di
            Hi Di, thanks for your reply.
            I haven't sent a s.78 to Cabot (can I do so without re-starting the clock for SB?
            I did read that post that you put up yesterday (read the whole Cabot thread going back years) Like other posters on there, I got confused as to which Cabot entity actually owned the debt. I will attach the redacted letter . I perhaps got tired after a day of reading and thought that there wasn't clarity as to whether they were now allowed , under another guise, to deal with and also assign a debt to other companies in future if I didn't take up there 80% reduction offer.
            The ideal situation would be to know that they don't have paperwork and can't re-assign it.
            My fear is that if they are allowed to sell it on, I may not get such a reduced offer again.

            The first letter from cabot at the bottom has
            Cabot Financial (Europe) Limited is an appointed rep of Cabot Credit Management Group authorised and regulated by FCA 677910

            Ruthbridge letter says assigned from Cabot Financial Europe Limited

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by finn derry View Post



              Hi, it was a 30% discount a few months back and now they're offering an 80% discount.
              While you can not make any assumptions and I would follow the correct process, why would they offer 80% unless for some reason they thought it was their best option, maybe you are not working or have no assets, or maybe it will not stand up in court - lots of possibilities

              If you use the S78 request from here, it will not restart the SB clock (you are asking for information so you can decide if the debt actually belongs to you- if you get my drift)

              I will leave you in Di's very capable hands but it would help if you managed to attach the letter . On all my Cabot letters, on the right hand side there is a box which says things like 'your account' 'current creditor' and 'outstanding balance'

              Comment


              • #8
                Thanks for reply and clarification over SB. Tried to resize images of letters so hopefully will upload.
                Attached Files

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by finn derry View Post
                  Thanks for reply and clarification over SB. Tried to resize images of letters so hopefully will upload.
                  No that's inconclusive. Just The Cabot Group farming this out to a third party.
                  Its unlikely that Cabot Financial is the Assigned Owner.

                  The problem here with all due respect is that the AAD approach with a Diary avoids speculation.

                  Somewhere in your correspondence there would have been an Assignment between HSBC and CABOT?? The question is which company within the Cabot Group ? The rest is speculation!

                  What you really need to do is start a diary entry (it helps you and the MODS).
                  This will help you take control here it may also go someway to understanding why Cabot are apparently being so generous (DCA's aren't Charities)

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    The company is Cabot Financial Europe Ltd.

                    Follow Diís advice and send a s78 letter using the template on this site and enclosing £1 as a cheque or Postal Order, send it recorded delivery so that you know it has been received. This is a statutory request and failure to supply the correct documents means that the account is not legally enforceable in court. All our letters have been checked by a solicitor so that the SB clock is not restarted.
                    It is dubious that they have all the required documentation if they are giving you such a big discount.
                    I'm an official AAD Moderator and also a volunteer, here to help make the forum run smoothly. Any views or opinions are mine and not the official line of AAD. Similarly, any advice I have offered you is done so on an informal basis, without prejudice or liability. If in doubt seek advice from a qualified insured professional - Find a Solicitor or go to the National Probono Centre.

                    If you spot an abusive or libellous post then please report it by Clicking Here. If you need to contact me, for instance if I've issued you a warning, moved, edited or deleted your post, please send me a message by clicking my username.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Try not to worry if you do not have all the letters and assignments from the past- we have all been there, I know I chucked lots of what may have been important letters in the bin before I knew better. Also do not be pressured by anyone, and that includes us into doing something you are not comfortable with. If you feel settling is the right thing to do then do it but I do agree with Di when she says you should establish your legal position first - why pay if you don't have to?


                      Roughly what sort of figure are we looking at, tens of pounds, hundreds, thousands , over 10K?

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Warwick65 View Post
                        Try not to worry if you do not have all the letters and assignments from the past- we have all been there, I know I chucked lots of what may have been important letters in the bin before I knew better. Also do not be pressured by anyone, and that includes us into doing something you are not comfortable with. If you feel settling is the right thing to do then do it but I do agree with Di when she says you should establish your legal position first - why pay if you don't have to?


                        Roughly what sort of figure are we looking at, tens of pounds, hundreds, thousands , over 10K?


                        Thanks to all for the above replies.
                        We are talking about over 8,000 reduced to just over 1,500. So it is tempting.
                        Is there a chance that the s.78 request will prompt them to write to the original creditor for the docs, and if they materialise then they may write of my discount offer and pursue the full amount, knowing that they have now established contact?

                        and if I do ask for a s.78, do I send it to Ruthbridge or to Cabot? In their earlier two letters of March, Ruthbridge said that 'as we have been appointed as their agent you should now make sure you contact us and not Cabot Financial EuropeLimited. We are authorised to negotiate repayment of the above debt with you.'.....if you fail etc...we may return the account to our client, who may look at alternative activity.'
                        Last edited by finn derry; 10th July 2019, 16:08.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Send the S.78 CCA request with the £1 fee to Cabot and retain proof of posting.
                          Legal Disclaimer
                          I am a solicitor Advocate who specialises in consumer credit and my firm is Joanna Connolly Solicitors. My leading case of Carey v HSBC set the legal precedence for creditors compliance with s.77 & s.78 Consumer Credit Act 1974 statutory requests & enforcement of debts in court. Any posts I make on the AAD Consumer Forum are for information and discussion purposes only and shouldn't be seen as legal advice. Any advice I provide on the forum is without liability. If you are unsure please seek formal legal guidance or contact your local citizens advice bureau at https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk.

                          If you need to contact me you can send me a message by clicking my username or by emailing me at jo@joannaconnollysolicitors.co.uk or by telephoning 0330 053 9340.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by finn derry View Post
                            Hi Di, thanks for your reply.
                            I haven't sent a s.78 to Cabot (can I do so without re-starting the clock for SB?)
                            I did read that post that you put up yesterday (read the whole Cabot thread going back years) . . . . . confused as to which Cabot entity actually owned the debt. . . . . there wasn't clarity as to whether they were now allowed , under another guise, to deal with and also assign a debt to other companies in future if I didn't take up there 80% reduction offer.
                            The ideal situation would be to know that they don't have paperwork and can't re-assign it.

                            You won't re-start the SB clock if you use the AAD template s78 CCA Request here (in post #2) > https://all-about-debt.co.uk/forum/d...mplate-letters

                            Ruthbridge is a debt collector which is why I said you should send your CCA Request to Cabot (the debt owner).

                            My feeling is negotiation is best carried out from a position of strength, so establish whether the debt is enforceable as your next step. If it's unenforceable then it's unenforceable regardless of whether it's assigned to another debt purchaser

                            You've said this credit card was from 2004/5, can you remember how you would have opened the account?

                            Was there PPI involved? If so then you may be in a position to reclaim if it was missold. Your reclaim would go to HSBC (the original creditor). If your reclaim were to be successful then HSBC should refund you direct.

                            One step at a time

                            Di
                            Legal Disclaimer

                            I am a Litigation Executive at Joanna Connolly Solicitors a firm which specialises in consumer credit. If you need to contact me you can send a message by clicking on my username or by emailing me at di@joannaconnollysolicitors.co.uk or by telephoning 0330 053 9340. Our initial advice is always free.

                            Any posts I make on the AAD Consumer Forum are for information and discussion purposes only and shouldn't be seen as legal advice. Any advice I provide on the forum is without liability. If you are unsure please seek formal legal guidance or contact your local citizens advice bureau at https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Diana Mayhew View Post


                              You won't re-start the SB clock if you use the AAD template s78 CCA Request here (in post #2) > https://all-about-debt.co.uk/forum/d...mplate-letters

                              Ruthbridge is a debt collector which is why I said you should send your CCA Request to Cabot (the debt owner).

                              My feeling is negotiation is best carried out from a position of strength, so establish whether the debt is enforceable as your next step. If it's unenforceable then it's unenforceable regardless of whether it's assigned to another debt purchaser

                              You've said this credit card was from 2004/5, can you remember how you would have opened the account?

                              Was there PPI involved? If so then you may be in a position to reclaim if it was missold. Your reclaim would go to HSBC (the original creditor). If your reclaim were to be successful then HSBC should refund you direct.

                              One step at a time

                              Di
                              Hi,
                              I would have had a leaflet to fill in and send off, sent to me through the post. I'm not sure if PPI was involved. My original forms from my SAR request are probably stored away in an attic at a friend's house a few hundred miles away, before I relocated. Won't have access to them till later next month.

                              My quandary is this. By sending off for the s.78, I will miss Ruthbridge deadline to settle at 20%, which falls next week. They have previously sent me a similar deadline a few months back, at 30%.
                              If the paperwork comes back and is in order, i.e. enforceable, will Ruthbridge have decided to send file back to Cabot and I may not get the chance of 20% again and/or Cabot decide to ask for a higher full and final instead?

                              Also, due to personal reasons of wanting to move on, not wanting to fight this for years ( I know they may well still send letters if it gets to SB or deemed UE) Due to a diagnosis, life expectancy is shortened (nothing terminal yet! just don't know how long, 5, 10, 15 years) I don't want my now wife to be dealing with letters arriving after I've possibly gone and being harassed into paying the full amount.

                              So, totally agree, from a position of knowing would be best, BUT don't want to miss my chance of a good settlement in case paperwork turns out ok for them...

                              Comment

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