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Natwest and Egg CCA's - both pre 2007 Credit Card Agreements

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  • Natwest and Egg CCA's - both pre 2007 Credit Card Agreements

    Good morning all,

    Back in August 2018 I decided that I was going to do something about these two bloodsuckers. I had been paying them a minimum sum for years. You see, It had dawned on me that they were perfectly happy to let me carry on doing this. They never bothered me, why? Well, I figured that the reason was that their pre 2007 agreements were probably UE and they did not want to rock the boat!
    So, I uploaded the NatWest and Egg agreements for NIddy to take a butchers. He advised that both agreements were lacking most of the main terms, so I ceased payments.

    As yet, not a squeak from Barclay/Egg. However, it took quite a while but Cabot/NatWest popped up with a reminder that I had missed a payment. So I CCA'd them.
    Cabot acknowledged me and advised that they were seeking the required docs from the original lender, NatWest.
    They got back to me at the beginning of March 2019 with what looks like a recon of the agreement, a short summary of my payments & current balance and a ten page completely illegible copy (apart from the first page marked General Terms) of what I assume is the Terms and Conditions. Oh, and their covering letter that stated that they were happy that their agreement was now enforceable!
    I gave then a couple of weeks and wrote back informing them that their obliterated copy of the Terms& Conditions would not cut the mustard and that their Agreement was therefor unenforceable.

    Interestingly, I noticed some tiny text as a footnote on the second page of the recon agreement which said that the Terms and Conditions form part of the Agreement between NatWest and myself. Is that legit? The Agreement was dated November 2005 and only carried my signature and date of signing. There was no signature from Natwest present.

    Niddy, if you see this post, I will be grateful if you will take another look at this NatWest Agreement and guide me through the Main Terms and other text that make this NatWest Agreement UE.



  • #2
    Hello

    Have I got this right?

    The Barclaycard, which began as an Egg credit card, is still with Barclaycard.

    And the NatWest credit card has been assigned/sold to Cabot. Which 'Cabot' would that be - Cabot Financial Ltd or Cabot Financial (UK) Ltd? There's a difference.

    The best way the forum can help is to comment on any correspondence which you get from now on.

    Start a separate post for each of the debts (on this thread) giving the history in this format >
    • Type of account (credit card/loan)
    • Date commenced (ideally before April 2007)
    • Approx balance
    • Date last paid (approximate date you last made a FULL payment)
    • Are you on arrangement or not paying
    • Status (default/in arrears/up-to-date)
    • Account owner (who is writing to you, a DCA or the original lender or a debt purchaser)

    There can be many reasons for a debt to be unenforceable other than the credit agreement document itself, so include as much information as you can.

    I look forward to helping you.

    Di
    Legal Disclaimer

    I am a Litigation Executive at
    Joanna Connolly Solicitors a firm which specialises in consumer credit. If you need to contact me you can send a message by clicking on my username or by emailing me at di@joannaconnollysolicitors.co.uk or by telephoning 0330 053 9340. Our initial advice is always free.

    Any posts I make on the AAD Consumer Forum are for information and discussion purposes only and shouldn't be seen as legal advice. Any advice I provide on the forum is without liability. If you are unsure please seek formal legal guidance or contact your local citizens advice bureau at https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk

    Comment


    • #3
      Hi Diana, Thanks for your comments. As I understand it, Egg sold all their accounts to Citi Group who then sold them to Barclaycard. Simples!!!
      Regarding the NatWest account, it was sold to Cabot Financial (Europe) Ltd.
      Thanks for your advice on separate posts for each debt on this thread. Will do.

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by Beachcaster View Post
        Regarding the NatWest account, it was sold to Cabot Financial (Europe) Ltd.

        Are you sure about that?

        Check what it says on the correspondence (perhaps you were sent a Notice of Assignment at the time?) about the named owner i.e. the actual debt purchaser on the Deed, not who is managing the debt on behalf of the owner even if they may be part of a group of companies with similar name..

        This may matter

        Di
        Legal Disclaimer

        I am a Litigation Executive at
        Joanna Connolly Solicitors a firm which specialises in consumer credit. If you need to contact me you can send a message by clicking on my username or by emailing me at di@joannaconnollysolicitors.co.uk or by telephoning 0330 053 9340. Our initial advice is always free.

        Any posts I make on the AAD Consumer Forum are for information and discussion purposes only and shouldn't be seen as legal advice. Any advice I provide on the forum is without liability. If you are unsure please seek formal legal guidance or contact your local citizens advice bureau at https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk

        Comment


        • #5
          Good afternoon Diana,

          Thank you for your interesting little pointer regarding the 'Named Owner of the Debt'. I have checked my paperwork and have discovered that NatWest advised me in a letter dated 4th September 2017 that as of the 3rd July 2017 my account was assigned to Cabot Financial (UK) Limited who became the new legal owners of the debt.
          Since that letter from NatWest I have received no notification from Cabot Financial (UK) Limited that they are the new legal owners, only in fact, letters from Wescot acting for Cabot Financial (Europe) Limited, and Statements of Account and a response to my CCA 77-79 request from Cabot Financial (Europe) Limited. Very importantly, I have received no notification from Cabot Financial (Europe) Limited that they are the new legal owners of my account either!! I look forward to your comments.

          Comment


          • #6
            Beachcaster's UE Diary
            • Type of account - Credit Card - NatWest
            • Date commenced - Nov. 2005
            • Approx balance - £4K
            • Date last paid January 2019
            • Had an arrangement but ceased paying when I CCA'd account owner January 2019
            • Status - Default
            • Account owner - Cabot Financial (UK) Limited. However, it is Cabot Financial (Europe) Limited that communicates with me in writing.



            - 10th Jan 2019 - I CCA'd Cabot Financial (Europe) Limited
            - 1st March 2019 - Cabot Financial (Europe) Limited responded to my CCA request. However, the copy of the Terms and Conditions they supplied was completely illegible.
            - 14th March 2019 - Responded to Cabot Financial (Europe) Limited informing them that the copy of the Terms and Conditions they sent were illegible and therefore the agreement remained unenforceable.
            - 9th April 2019 - Reply from Cabot re their illegible T&C's. They agree that they are "unclear" and as such the account is unenforceable. They have asked the original lender if they are able to supply a clearer version.
            - 11th April 2019 - Uploaded the copy of the NatWest agreement supplied by Cabot to Niddy for close examination re whether UE
            Last edited by Beachcaster; 11th April 2019, 17:45.

            Comment


            • #7
              Beachcaster's UE Diary
              • Type of account - Credit Card - Egg
              • Date commenced - June 2002
              • Approx balance - £12K
              • Date last paid December 2018
              • Had an arrangement but ceased paying in Jan 2019
              • Status - Default
              • Account owner - Barclaycard.

              - 27th March 2019 - as yet, no response from Barclaycard since I ceased payment in January 2019.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Beachcaster View Post
                Beachcaster's UE Diary
                • Type of account - Credit Card - NatWest
                • Date commenced - Nov. 2005
                • Approx balance - £4K
                • Date last paid January 2019
                • Had an arrangement but ceased paying when I CCA'd account owner January 2019
                • Status - Default
                • Account owner - Cabot Financial (UK) Limited. However, it is Cabot Financial (Europe) Limited that communicates with me in writing.

                - 10th Jan 2019 - I CCA'd Cabot Financial (Europe) Limited
                - 1st March 2019 - Cabot Financial (Europe) Limited responded to my CCA request. However, the copy of the Terms and Conditions they supplied was completely illegible.
                - 14th March 2019 - Responded to Cabot Financial (Europe) Limited informing them that the copy of the Terms and Conditions they sent were illegible and therefore the agreement remained unenforceable.


                I wouldn't reply to letters from Cabot or any other debt owner until you've asked the forum for guidance first.

                In this case you've told Cabot that the Ts & Cs are illegible which may prompt them to source a better, more legible, copy or reconstitute one which remedies the flaw so the credit agreement become enforceable.

                Di

                Legal Disclaimer

                I am a Litigation Executive at
                Joanna Connolly Solicitors a firm which specialises in consumer credit. If you need to contact me you can send a message by clicking on my username or by emailing me at di@joannaconnollysolicitors.co.uk or by telephoning 0330 053 9340. Our initial advice is always free.

                Any posts I make on the AAD Consumer Forum are for information and discussion purposes only and shouldn't be seen as legal advice. Any advice I provide on the forum is without liability. If you are unsure please seek formal legal guidance or contact your local citizens advice bureau at https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Beachcaster View Post
                  Beachcaster's UE Diary
                  • Type of account - Credit Card - Egg
                  • Date commenced - June 2002
                  • Approx balance - £12K
                  • Date last paid December 2018
                  • Had an arrangement but ceased paying in Jan 2019
                  • Status - Default
                  • Account owner - Barclaycard.

                  - 27th March 2019 - as yet, no response from Barclaycard since I ceased payment in January 2019.

                  Did you send a s77-79 CCA Request to Barclaycard and if so when was that?

                  If you get any correspondence from Barclaycard post on your thread to get feedback.

                  Maybe Barclaycard are planning to assign/sell your account to a debt purchaser such as PRA. Perhaps thatís why things have gone quite despite you not paying them.

                  Di
                  Legal Disclaimer

                  I am a Litigation Executive at
                  Joanna Connolly Solicitors a firm which specialises in consumer credit. If you need to contact me you can send a message by clicking on my username or by emailing me at di@joannaconnollysolicitors.co.uk or by telephoning 0330 053 9340. Our initial advice is always free.

                  Any posts I make on the AAD Consumer Forum are for information and discussion purposes only and shouldn't be seen as legal advice. Any advice I provide on the forum is without liability. If you are unsure please seek formal legal guidance or contact your local citizens advice bureau at https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Hi Diana, Thanks for your comments re Barclaycard/Egg account. I have not as yet CCA'd them. I just wanted to see how they would react to ceasing my tiny monthly payment, as I have read a lot about their defective aggreements in the early 2000's. Still nothing from them!

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Hi Diana, thanks for your comment re my Cabot/NatWest account. Will post on the forum first in future and before replying to debt owner. I'd like Niddy to take a close look at the reconned body of the agreement anyway as some of this is not particularly legible. I'd be grateful if you would tell me the best way to do this. Thanks.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Beachcaster View Post
                        Hi Diana, thanks for your comment re my Cabot/NatWest account. Will post on the forum first in future and before replying to debt owner. I'd like Niddy to take a close look at the reconned body of the agreement anyway as some of this is not particularly legible. I'd be grateful if you would tell me the best way to do this. Thanks.


                        If you would like Niddy to give you his opinion on the enforceability (or not) of a credit agreement then you can email it to him using webmaster@all-about-debt.co.uk . Put your username in the subject bar and a link to this thread in the body of the email. No need to blank anything out as it will be secure.

                        Always remember it isn't only a credit agreement which can make a debt unenforceable in law.

                        Di
                        Legal Disclaimer

                        I am a Litigation Executive at
                        Joanna Connolly Solicitors a firm which specialises in consumer credit. If you need to contact me you can send a message by clicking on my username or by emailing me at di@joannaconnollysolicitors.co.uk or by telephoning 0330 053 9340. Our initial advice is always free.

                        Any posts I make on the AAD Consumer Forum are for information and discussion purposes only and shouldn't be seen as legal advice. Any advice I provide on the forum is without liability. If you are unsure please seek formal legal guidance or contact your local citizens advice bureau at https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk

                        Comment

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