PM's Plan To Axe Housing Benefit For The Young

[PriorityOne]

Re: PM's Plan To Axe Housing Benefit For The Young

If there was going to be a benefit shake-up it should have been during the so-called 'boom' years when you could assume that many of the long-term unemployed were just abusing the system because there were jobs available, however, the global economic meltdown caused by the Financial $ector has left the country - and most of the world - in a never ending recession where many qualified people find it hard to find work and are forced to resort to benefits

Very well said FP.....

[jon1965]

Re: PM's Plan To Axe Housing Benefit For The Young

Nope I mean the Daily Mail..evil rag.
Long gone are the days when anyone took what The Scum says seriously.
The Mail is more evil because it is sensationalist and they know their market. They write headlines that have little or no bearing on the story. I hate the paper with a passion .

Now I am a bit concerned that i am sitting on the fence

[PriorityOne]

Re: PM's Plan To Axe Housing Benefit For The Young

Niddy

I do not advocate giving everything to everyone but what I hate with a passion is the daily mail style of reactionary crap that makes some people believe that everyone who is sick is a scrounger, that all council estate girls just want to get pregnant to get a council flat or that every immigrant has come here for an easy life and have no real reason to flee their country of birth.

Don't you mean The Sun?..... lol

Pitched at a reading age of around 12 years of age..... it's very easy to convince masses of people (through senstationalised reporting) that all sorts is "true"..... that's if you can find any actual news amongst the tits and football.

[jon1965]

Re: PM's Plan To Axe Housing Benefit For The Young

Niddy
On some levels I agree and on others I do not.
Of course you have seen the hell that is the DWP

I have no time for tax avoidance even when it is legal and I think as I have said before that everyone should pay there fair share.

I also believe that welfare should be a net to catch the poor and the vulnerable and should be a basic level for those of working age with premiums for disabled people by all means if they have extra expenses.

No we do not live in a communist state and not everyone is equal, but on that note not everyone has the same capabilities. So as long as they contribute in a way they can, then welfare should be there or them if they need it.
It's all well and good being the CEO of McDonalds, but without the 16 year old crew member you wouldn't have a job and in that everyone should be treated with the same respect.

Niddy is spot on, too many people think that they have a right to a nice house and money and holidays in spain. Welfare is not that , welfare is the ability to pay your bills and feed yourself etc.

I do not advocate giving everything to everyone but what I hate with a passion is the daily mail style of reactionary crap that makes some people believe that everyone who is sick is a scrounger, that all council estate girls just want to get pregnant to get a council flat or that every immigrant has come here for an easy life and have no real reason to flee their country of birth.

[billypre]

Re: PM's Plan To Axe Housing Benefit For The Young

But if you earned 100k even in 1 year you would have paid more in tax than JSA & HB entitlements

Be better to replace "would" with "should" in my opinion.


Just sounds like more "divide & conquer" by the Tories while they drag their feet on the rich and priveledged who seem to control all the power and wealth and yet syphen it all off into K2 systems and tax avoidance.

[Never-In-Doubt]

Re: PM's Plan To Axe Housing Benefit For The Young

What i was saying is that if I was earning 100K and lost my job, IMHO why should I get a greater benefit payment than someone who was say a nurse on a much lower salary..or someone who worked for McDonalds. Benefits should be there for someone to live but not for someone to live at the level they were accustomed to.

Because you'd have paid £20k at least into the system whereas a nurse on say £30k would have paid around £5k into the system.

Lets not be all PC about it, the fact remains we have the mega-rich avoiding the system and yet they want to be Knighted and called Sir (Branson for a start) yet only when it suits them cos right now he doesn't want to pay into our tax system yet want's to be a Brit... go figure

I digress; the point is the problem is at the core. It's filled full of shyte and bad decisions and the only way to resolve it IMO is to go back to basics. Scrap welfare altogether and replace it with a system of 'you've paid in so we'll give some back' kinda style.

For instance, why should an 18yo school leaver that has contributed nothing to society get the same money as an ex CEO that maybe used to earn £300k per annum? they shouldn't - there is no two ways about that. But for the same token, everyone should be given a chance so maybe allocate something like 6 months of benefits in every year to those able to work under the age of 30.

The reason JC+ use ages to determine things is like with most things, benefits (JSA/UB in particular) is actually paid in relation to RITY's (relevant income tax years) which basically means you get 'left alone' for 6 months is you get Contribution based JSA as the fact would be in the previous 2 years you'd paid into the system. If you got Income based that'd be because you have not paid enough tax in the qualifying period and thus you'd get hassled to find work immediately plus usually get a lower amount.

I don't know how to fix it, but I do know it's a joke. I've never claimed in my life, and don't intend on doing so. I've been unemployed, like most people, however I always get by - i'd clean McDonalds toilets if it meant dinner for the kids or nothing.

That's the problem. Too many people think they have a right to a decent lifestyle, they don't. You earn those rights.

We are not a communist state thus we are not all equal and class is a major contributor. I am council through and through, proud of my roots. But now I have worked hard (very hard) and thus we own a nice house in a nice area - but I am still a council boy and common as muck. I mean, my head isn't up my own arse but then I had to work to get what I have (so did the wife of course), so why should others get it for free? In my old council estate the neighbour had more holidays than me (and we had 3 a year at that time).. go figure considering she was on benefits - nice to know my tax contributed to her tan, yet here I was scrimping and saving to buy a nicer house.

Yea, the system is just awesome isn't it?

[kilasuit]

Re: PM's Plan To Axe Housing Benefit For The Young

my point is on the long term unemployed that in comparison to myself have little in hoops to jump through.

I know in most cases i'm fighting a loosing battle but i want to see this country get its self outta the mess its in.

on a different note i'd like to volenteer for CAB whilst i'm jobsearching

this going to have any ramifications on my JSA?

[pompeyfaith]

Re: PM's Plan To Axe Housing Benefit For The Young

My two pence worth here, the current system is fucked, however Cameron is going about it the wrong way take me as a classic example Stroke 1990 went back to work 1992 claimed nothing as employer kept my job open for me to return after 2 years recovery and paid me full wages through out.

Stayed in work until April 2007 when the financial bubble crashed and we entered recession never claimed any disability benefits or help from local council for these 15 years I managed to stay in work despite having an entitlement why? two reasons one I was earning well and thus did not need it and two morality I figured right or wrong that there was someone in more need than me.

Now get to 2007 where jobs from my local press had gone from 25+ pages to just 3 pages getting work was going to be very hard indeed for me with the disabilities the stroke left me with however that was not going to stop me so the interview cycle it was 75 of such I had and nothing many could even be bothered to let me know and one even told me straight no chance mate not with your disabilities I have too many able bodied in the cue and you should be on disability benefits.....

That upset me at first and going home on the bus thinking about it was tough, however maybe he was right so I decided to go to my GP for a chat with him and he suggested I go for more physiotherapy knowing that it would do me no good due to the time passed but it would be a way onto incapacity benefit and an end to the Jobcentre slaughter.

btw since from 2007 I have never claimed mortgage interest relief and have no intentions too why? because the mortgage is mine and was my choice to buy it so why should the Govt subsidise it.

Yes we all know the govt rip off the taxpayer with second homes etc and pay less tax than us but that is them and not me.

So what I am I getting at here? well as you can see I have limited welfare help for me as much as possible but now I do need the help it is not there I am currently going through the brutal wrath of ESA migration and my DLA has never been right from the start.

I am still a taxpayer as I pay it on secondary taxation like VAT and Fuel etc.

The DWP even tried to take away £18k in carers allowance my wife got for caring not only for me but also her mum who lives with us.

We also have saved the Govt thousands in letting her live here thus no care home or carers fees.

The DWP are off our backs now for the carers allowance due to me sending a rant letter similar to what I have written here.

It seems to me the wrong citizens are being helped.

[kilasuit]

Re: PM's Plan To Axe Housing Benefit For The Young

But if you earned 100k even in 1 year you would have paid more in tax than JSA & HB entitlements

But what i am saying is that it should be proportional to previous income and those that have never worked get the bare minimum ie rent gas electric and tokens towards food that can only be used for food and transport

There are too many people on benefits that are alci's or drug dependant and what does JSA or even IB do fuel that depenancy.

I'm all in favour of drug testing JSA & IB claimants and if that test come back positive for non prescribed medicines then they lose there benefits for x weeks and are also forced into rehabilitation clinics for the duration of benefits being cut.

You'd find people would become non-dependant in a much shorter time frame in a system like that and also less likely to relapse.

[jon1965]

Re: PM's Plan To Axe Housing Benefit For The Young

Oh I have no issue with the concept that the whole system is flawed and unfit. I am buggered if I know how to put it right.
The asylum system fries my brain, first off because in many peoples eyes illegals are all non white, which is not true. What I hate is the "working holiday" and even worse the student visa and how it is abused. I saw it time and time again in my last job. Come over as student but spend all their spare time "working illegally" in aunties shop or uncles restaurant.
Having said that, we should take genuine asylum seekers, where woman get stoned for adultery but not famous cricketers, where I would be hung or stoned just for being me.

Kila if you know someone who unjustly gets higher rate DLA (you don't say if it's care or mobility or both) ..well I know what i would do
However my stepson was granted it under the special rules when he was 21 and lived another 9 years, and some of the time he didn't look ill.

What i was saying is that if I was earning 100K and lost my job, IMHO why should I get a greater benefit payment than someone who was say a nurse on a much lower salary..or someone who worked for McDonalds. Benefits should be there for someone to live but not for someone to live at the level they were accustomed to.

I also agree that you can vote and die for your country at 18 but not get full benefit entitlement because it is assumed your family will look after you.

Ok rant over..but if you really want to get me going mention the Church in africa

[kilasuit]

Re: PM's Plan To Axe Housing Benefit For The Young

Jon I'm ex DWP and was at the pilot "One" scheme pre JC+.

We tried and tested varying formulas but the problems were at the core. The system is flawed, no two ways about it.

By being eligible, that's the crux. Do you think it's right that asylum seekers that have waited clearance from IND had a right to backdated benefits since entry into uk if they won right to remain in uk? Well they did. Many a time I authorised £10,000+ giro cheques to asylum seekers who has been in limbo for a year or so.

Sorry. I don't work to support those that ran away from their own shyte. Hang on, there's a thought. I fancy Seychelles to retire so I'm off to live there for free forever. Is that acceptable?

If you move in this country you are expected to support yourself (or at least have the ability to do so)

So what makes it different for asylum seekers. Unless they actually have skills useful to the country then they should be instantly deported in my view.

There wouldn't be such a humongous debt problem if there wasn't this problem in the employment sector due to the asylum seekers taking jobs from the people born and bred here.

[Never-In-Doubt]

Re: PM's Plan To Axe Housing Benefit For The Young

Jon I'm ex DWP and was at the pilot "One" scheme pre JC+.

We tried and tested varying formulas but the problems were at the core. The system is flawed, no two ways about it.

By being eligible, that's the crux. Do you think it's right that asylum seekers that have waited clearance from IND had a right to backdated benefits since entry into uk if they won right to remain in uk? Well they did. Many a time I authorised £10,000+ giro cheques to asylum seekers who has been in limbo for a year or so.

Sorry. I don't work to support those that ran away from their own shyte. Hang on, there's a thought. I fancy Seychelles to retire so I'm off to live there for free forever. Is that acceptable?

[kilasuit]

Re: PM's Plan To Axe Housing Benefit For The Young

Oh don't get me started. Benefits should be fair and even for those that qualify. No paying more to someone who has earnt more etc.

Niddy what are you rambling on about....if you carry on I will have to go and ask DX for some advice

Why should benefits be fair?

For example if i was a single 22 year old then in JSA i would get £56.25 a week

Whereas at 26 I would get £71.00 a week

What makes a 26yr old need an extra £14.75 a week just because they are older than i am

also Nat min Wage is a joke as when i was 18 i was on £4.80 an hour but doing more work than a 22yr old that was on £5.80

I have always felt that wages are incorrectly placed to people due to this Age dependency.

So explain how this is Fair and evenly dispersed to all that need to claim benefits? Because i tell you its not.

I also know of sum1 who is 21 and get higher rate DLA and IB yet has nothing actually stopping him from working

So again how is this all fair

[jon1965]

Re: PM's Plan To Axe Housing Benefit For The Young

Oh don't get me started. Benefits should be fair and even for those that qualify. No paying more to someone who has earnt more etc.

Niddy what are you rambling on about....if you carry on I will have to go and ask DX for some advice

[kilasuit]

Re: PM's Plan To Axe Housing Benefit For The Young

I think a fairer Benefits system would be based around that actual tax paid per person. i.e if you have paid £1000 in tax in 1 year then your entitled to £5000 in total in HB and JSA etc

But also more emphasis on employers to hire more on part time contracts and zero hour contracts etc.

Main problem i have found is that to reduce total employment costs companies rather give out overtime (for example me 120 hours in 1 week) than employ more people even when theres almost 100 applications to every job advertised.

Job shares make sense but most people cant afford to work just part time.

Like atm i couldnt take a temp job on or a part time as its inefficient to me financially and the hassle caused in having to go to job centre and declare that i've worked some hours in that fortnight etc