Pookies UE Diary

[pooksthebear]

Re: Pookies UE Diary

Hi PTB ,

Back in the saddle for a bit now. As you have been advised have a read here:

>Help with Unenforceability - allaboutFORUMS

That will give a start into unenforceability.

Unenforceability does not extinguish the debt, but it does mean that the creditor is unable to enforce it though the courts hence you won't have to pay it. There are a number of legal reasons why this occurs however it is not always an easy ride I'm afraid. Hence only you can decide how you want to play it in the end. As I see it you already have trashed credit reference files and have nothing to lose by seeing where you stand with all of your debts. You can then decide whether you wish to carry on with some form of DMP, go the UE route for those that are UE and try for F & F s where applicable. The commenst above are correct and you will get nowhere with any of them whilst you are still making payments if the facts are faced. You will not necessarily get clean CRFs if you get F 7 Fs accpeted as they will say something like partial settlement and the like.

So from the above I would make as78 CCA1974 request for copy documents (agrrements) using the template letter on the following accounts:-

CL Finance collecting for GE Money
Debt Managers collecting for Morgan Stanley ( was this a Morgan Stanley Dean Witter account by the way?)
Triton collecting for RBS
Buchanan White collecting for Littlewoods

You will need a one pound postal order to go with each letter and they will have 12 + 2 days to respond otherwise they will go into default.

The Yorkshire Bank overdraft will not be covered by The CCA1974 and hence we will have to consider the best way to handle it.

If you are insistent on trying for F & F ( not a really recommended tactic on this site so early on in procedings) then never open negotiations above 10%. Usually never try this on with an original creditor on a live account without proper professional legal advice using third parties. To be successful on your own and still you will need great care ( this is Common Law of Contract with all its pitfalls not simple Statute Law like CCA) it is best to get defaulted as early as possible and then come to a settlement with the DCA debt purchaser (in Absolute). They will have bought the debt at between 10p and 12p in the pound, hence if you get as high as 20% of the original debt then they have made 100% profit. hence your chances are much better. You will never get a sensible F & F whilst you are making any payments.

Whilst you are making any sort of payment you are still acknowledging the debt and another legal method which is the Statute Barring clock will never start either. I believe the advice you have been given by the DMP operator has not necessarily been to your best interest. But that is a personal opinion form the information you have provided.

Hope that this helps a bit to start as we don't want you to get overwhelmed with it all. You are in good hands here and many of us have been or are going through the same difficulties as you. The site owner and administrator is on holiday at the moment but will be back in a few days and his reviews of the documents will be crusial to how we all proceed. if things down the line get a problem we do have a preferred solicitor who is a specialist in consumer law to whom you can be referred if the necessity arises.

I will post up the link to the first template letter for yuo to consider in a moment

regards
Garlok

Hello again Garlok, thank you so much for this.

The only reason i went down the f&f route was because i was led down the garden path re the mortgage and promise of being debt free and getting a good mortgage with high street lender in 2 years. It wasnt until AFTER i sent the f&f letters and began reading around that i realised this was not the case.

I started the dmp in 2005 and never missed a payment, the creditors agreed to the figure i was paying yet one put a default on my file in 2008.. after 3 years of making the agreed payment. All defaults will be off by 2014.

The route for me now i think is to ditch the dmp, scrap the f&f idea and try for unenforcability. May have to continue paying the yorkshire bank/cabot one though yeah? One thing though.. can they all still get a ccj against me on top of the default and therefore start the whole 6 year thing again?

I will get the postal orders tomoro and get letters sent off on Friday. Im ready for a fight now.. had enough of being taken for a ride by dcas, dmcs and their dodgy sidekick mortgage advisors!

Yours most appreciative.. Pooks

[pooksthebear]

Re: Pookies UE Diary

reposted this in diary.

[Pixie]

Re: Pookies UE Diary

Hi Pixie, thanks for the reply.

1. I did want to go for full and final to get shot because.. i was led to believe that i could have a mortgage to clear them and then be remortgaged again with a high street lender in 2 years. Sounded good.. to be in the clear. However i then did some reading and came to the conclusion that a high street lender would not give me a mortgage with a default on the cra and my last one doesnt come off till 2014 .. however i didnt find this out until AFTER i had sent the f&f letters. So now im not so sure.. think maybe as last resort now.

2. I dont want to continue paying if i can help it, or at least only pay very very little, however i dont want to end up with a ccj and have to wait another 6 years for clear credit file.

3. Unenforcability.. i have done a lot of reading about this and have got confused with all the different opinions etc. The loan and credit cards are pre 2004. The bank account is 2007 and catalogue.. cant remember.. had that years and only handed that to dmc on their advice, balance was low and could have managed it but they never ever mentioned to me i could be defaulted or anything. I have the credit agreement from the loan.. but it isnt signed by me. Seem to remember it was done on the phone and i was delivered a cheque by courier.

Havnt a clue how to do a digital signature but im willing to learn!! Oh .. i told the dcas that the offer was only open for a limited time. Not sure if that will help with a later f&f if debts turn out to be enforceable.

Thanks again.. very grateful for the help. Pooks

Hi Pooks

Bank accounts are exempt from cca anyway so it doesn't matter when it was opened.

I'm not sure if a ccj would start the 6 years off again - I'll have to read up on this. However, if the accounts are UE they wouldn't be able to get a ccj against you anyway. Perhaps with the money you save from stopping payments on the other debts, you could reduce your bank overdraft.

I think you're on the right lines in ditching the dmp, forgetting about F&F settlements and trying for UE. If any of the pre2007 debt agreements turn out to be enforceable, we'll sort that as we come to it.

So, get those cca requests sent tomorrow recorded delivery. Signing digitally just means typing your name using one of the fonts in Word (I use Lucida or Bradley) rather than signing by hand - just in case they try a sneaky copy-and-paste job on an agreement!

[garlok]

Re: Pookies UE Diary

Hi PTB,

Glad you have started to read up and many thanks to pixie. All of those comments I would agree with. We have a step by step system to guide you through most of these troubles which are tried and tested and the template letters which quote up to date case law etc.

There are always many and varied views but you have to apply a bit of your own "nouse" to these them. There are people on many sites who are part of the DCA/Bank scene and are there purely to confuse the issue and cause difficulty for other struggling members. This site has a consistent approach to most (we do disagree sometimes as to best method) issues but we all dislike the banking sector and the way their cohorts behave and our senior moderators are very quick to identify and sort out troublemakers and those that would mislead others.

You have nothing to lose with looking at the uE route and in any case it is your right in law to seek information via the s78 method, hence allowing you to come to the right decision for you.

regards
Garlok

[MrsD]

Re: Pookies UE Diary

Pookie

I would be asking for a full account from you existing DMP provider, every payment made, every payment made to your creditors, every charge they applied to your accounts and every charge your creditors applied, it might actually be better to SAR these muppets because they appear to have proken some rules with the mortgage carry on, just a thought.

[Pixie]

Re: Pookies UE Diary

Good points from both Garlok and evenlessdopey.

[pooksthebear]

Re: Pookies UE Diary

Hi Pooks

Bank accounts are exempt from cca anyway so it doesn't matter when it was opened.

I'm not sure if a ccj would start the 6 years off again - I'll have to read up on this. However, if the accounts are UE they wouldn't be able to get a ccj against you anyway. Perhaps with the money you save from stopping payments on the other debts, you could reduce your bank overdraft.

I think you're on the right lines in ditching the dmp, forgetting about F&F settlements and trying for UE. If any of the pre2007 debt agreements turn out to be enforceable, we'll sort that as we come to it.

So, get those cca requests sent tomorrow recorded delivery. Signing digitally just means typing your name using one of the fonts in Word (I use Lucida or Bradley) rather than signing by hand - just in case they try a sneaky copy-and-paste job on an agreement!

Thanks for the reply Pixie,

The bank account overdraft I had with the Yorkshire, which is now with cabot.. did you mean come to a seperate arrangement to keep paying this one to cabot?

Yes I suppose if the debts are unenforceable they cant ccj me and they wouldnt be able to while account in dispute would they? Can they start adding interest again while account in dispute do you know? I have the original agreement for one debt, would it be worth posting that up for you to have a look at to see if its UE? Presume we would have to wait to see if the dca actually has the original agreemnet anyway but it would give us an idea wouldnt it?

Pooks

[pooksthebear]

Re: Pookies UE Diary

Hi PTB,

Glad you have started to read up and many thanks to pixie. All of those comments I would agree with. We have a step by step system to guide you through most of these troubles which are tried and tested and the template letters which quote up to date case law etc.

There are always many and varied views but you have to apply a bit of your own "nouse" to these them. There are people on many sites who are part of the DCA/Bank scene and are there purely to confuse the issue and cause difficulty for other struggling members. This site has a consistent approach to most (we do disagree sometimes as to best method) issues but we all dislike the banking sector and the way their cohorts behave and our senior moderators are very quick to identify and sort out troublemakers and those that would mislead others.

You have nothing to lose with looking at the uE route and in any case it is your right in law to seek information via the s78 method, hence allowing you to come to the right decision for you.

regards
Garlok

Thanks Garlok,

I actually feel like there may be some light at the end of the tunnel now. I just have to be prepared for the barage of letters and phone calls that are going to start .... had them way back in 2005 and they worried me sick, at least now I have seen how other people have handled them its not such a daunting prospect!

Pooks

[pooksthebear]

Re: Pookies UE Diary

Pookie

I would be asking for a full account from you existing DMP provider, every payment made, every payment made to your creditors, every charge they applied to your accounts and every charge your creditors applied, it might actually be better to SAR these muppets because they appear to have proken some rules with the mortgage carry on, just a thought.

Hi Evenlessdopey,

The DMC have provided me a statement every month of payments made and are adamant that every payment has been sent on to the creditors. The DMC charged me a standard amount of £20 each month and all the interest on the debts stopped very soon after joining the plan (which was originally with Harrington Brooks until 2007 when i switched providers as they were cheaper). This actually makes sense as the missing payments on the creditor statements are not all for the same months, eg one has june and july missing yet another may have nov and jan missing. Im wondering if, because the debts have been sold on from dca to dca that many times that payments may have gone to the wrong dca and not been passed on to the new one? So.. who to SAR.. dca's?

I agree that many rules may have been broken with the mortgage carry on, the dmc i was paying to help but as for the mortgage advisor who was supposed to be looking after my interests... well my interests appear not to have been on their agenda at all. I actually thought about reporting them but not sure who i would report them to?

Pooks

[pooksthebear]

Re: Pookies UE Diary

Here you go PTB,

This would be your starting letter on this journey:-

>Unenforceability Templates - Section 1

Never actually sign anything from now on only print your name, phone calls are to be met with "in writing only". I never use e-mails either only the Royal Mail. Anything you receive keep the envelopes as well stapled to the correspondence it came with and marked the date it actually arrived through your door and keep a log of the phone calls date time which account etc.

regards
Garlok

Thanks for this Garlok!

I have got letters ready, just need to go in post now!

Can I ask though as I am a little confused! The follow up letter (if they dont respond) states on the bottom that because they have not replied you are going to cease payment. So.. does this mean that I should continue paying in the meantime until they produce a cca? I presume you cant threaten to stop paying (in the second letter) if you already stopped paying when you sent the first letter.. if this makes sense?

Pooks

[garlok]

Re: Pookies UE Diary

That is always the problem PTB, template letters have to be fine tuned a little to suit yor exact circumstances. Every case has its own little nuances. If in your own case you have already stopped paying then just that line needs removing from the letter.

Garlok

[pooksthebear]

Re: Pookies UE Diary

That is always the problem PTB, template letters have to be fine tuned a little to suit yor exact circumstances. Every case has its own little nuances. If in your own case you have already stopped paying then just that line needs removing from the letter.

Garlok

Yeah of course Garlok. Right ive cancelled the standing order to dmc, missed the post today so the cca letters will be in post tomoro. I have not done a letter for Cabot seeing as it was for a bank account overdraft so do I now write Cabot to make an offer of payment - the same as what I was paying them through the dmc?

Pooks

[Never-In-Doubt]

Re: Pookies UE Diary

Hi - just back in uk today; hold fire and I'll have a read thru this tomorrow and offer my opinion if you want?

Personally; I would start by ceasing the dmp. Logic there goes by way of the cra entries will fall off regardless whether debt is paid or not. This buys you time to save and think. Yea, always a risk you get a ccj but that's when we hit em with a sensible f&f offer - to back off and that's all assuming they have compliant paperwork don't forget....

I would regardless, cease all payments to this dmp ASAP like now. If necessary we set up a free one via cccs.

Trust us; you'll be fine. I'll post again in morning

[Never-In-Doubt]

Re: Pookies UE Diary

Pixie, yes if they got a ccj after the default dropped off it'd stay for a new 6yrs BUT we wouldn't let it get that far as the primary objective is to clear the cra files for new credit advance.

Who is mortgage with? Also, would £9k from your mum pay for heating & car? I'd be looking to borrow that (if it's enough) and either give your mum a second charge on house of an agreed amount (so her investment is safe) or consider paying her back the £100 you're using for this silly dmp....

Y'all diggin me

[Pixie]

Re: Pookies UE Diary

I knew you'd think of something sensible Niddy!

I knew we you would come up with something before it ever got as far as court.