lookingforward's UE Diary

[lookingforward]

Re: fedupwiththeworry's UE Diary

Hi everyone, not been around too much as it's been quiet here (yes I'm touching wood as I type) and it's been lovely not thinking about debt for a while. Hope you all had a great Xmas and New Year.

Anyhow today a letter arrived from Barclays

Story thus far

24.5.10 CCA Request sent


25.05.10 DELIVERED


10.06.10 No Response. CCA Reminder Sent

3.11.10 Letter rec’d from B/Card writing with regard to my request for a copy of executed agreement, with current credit limit 0 and bal on a/c £xxxx due to current status the full o/s bal is due, if I’m have financial difficulty contact them to agree a mutually acceptable repayment arrangement.. b/c agreement and conditions of use plus 2 pages of conditions.


4.11.10 Unenforceable re Niddy - Sent CCA Query t&c’s supplied letter

15.11.10 Letter from B’card disputing that what they have sent is UE and is their final response.

18.11.10 Ignore re Niddy.

In a nutshell, todays letter states the assignment of the debt to XYZ and telling me future correspondance to them. There's also a letter with it from XYZ asking me to pay or ring to arrange a payment plan etc. The thing is both B/C and XYZ have put the wrong A/C no on their respective letters.

I'm assuming I don't want to let them know of their error and should ignore and keep safe ?

Thx

Edited to add that they also say if they don't hear from me they'll pass it on to their specialised recovery section

[Paul.]

Re: fedupwiththeworry's UE Diary

Hi everyone, not been around too much as it's been quiet here (yes I'm touching wood as I type) and it's been lovely not thinking about debt for a while. Hope you all had a great Xmas and New Year.

Anyhow today a letter arrived from Barclays

Story thus far

24.5.10 CCA Request sent


25.05.10 DELIVERED


10.06.10 No Response. CCA Reminder Sent

3.11.10 Letter rec’d from B/Card writing with regard to my request for a copy of executed agreement, with current credit limit 0 and bal on a/c £xxxx due to current status the full o/s bal is due, if I’m have financial difficulty contact them to agree a mutually acceptable repayment arrangement.. b/c agreement and conditions of use plus 2 pages of conditions.


4.11.10 Unenforceable re Niddy - Sent CCA Query t&c’s supplied letter

15.11.10 Letter from B’card disputing that what they have sent is UE and is their final response.

18.11.10 Ignore re Niddy.

In a nutshell, todays letter states the assignment of the debt to XYZ and telling me future correspondance to them. There's also a letter with it from XYZ asking me to pay or ring to arrange a payment plan etc. The thing is both B/C and XYZ have put the wrong A/C no on their respective letters.

I'm assuming I don't want to let them know of their error and should ignore and keep safe ?

Thx

Im curious as to who XYZ is

The wrong account number is not going to invalidate the assignment, it will take the form of equity if it is not a legal assignment anyway, im pretty sure a District Judge would find more likely than not that there has been a valid assignment.

[lookingforward]

Re: fedupwiththeworry's UE Diary

Im curious as to who XYZ is

The wrong account number is not going to invalidate the assignment, it will take the form of equity if it is not a legal assignment anyway, im pretty sure a District Judge would find more likely than not that there has been a valid assignment.

Hi Paul,

I didn't say the name in case it did invalidate it and they were viewing posts and put 2 and 2 together. Me paranoid...never
As it doesn't make any difference XYZ is Lowells

[billytommo]

Re: fedupwiththeworry's UE Diary

Apparently the account number can change to what they like. I have 4 accounts now with BC (only 1 is an original) and the account/reference numbers have changed. I have received correspondence for one and I've no idea which one I suppose I'll just have to ignore it then

[Paul.]

Re: fedupwiththeworry's UE Diary

The notice should advise the debtor who owns his debt and who he has to pay, that is all the notice is for really

See cases such as Van pelias construction, Harrison v Burke

[lookingforward]

Re: fedupwiththeworry's UE Diary

Ah OK thanks Paul, thought I was onto a winner for a while there
Never mind

[Paul.]

Re: fedupwiththeworry's UE Diary

if the notice mis states the date of the assignment of course, then that would invalidate the notice

More than one way to skin a cat though, just look at the Robinson case in the case law section, we won even with a valid enforceable agreement

[lookingforward]

Re: fedupwiththeworry's UE Diary

I'll have a look later thanks Paul.

Way back in post 42 (page 3 I think) I detailed what B/C had sent me which Niddy said was UE in post 43.

Do I need to start from scratch and send a CCA request out to Lowells ? Presumably they will then just send me the same stuff Barclays did in post 42 ?

[Paul.]

Re: fedupwiththeworry's UE Diary

no documents in post 42??

But you need to remind them that there is an outstanding request under the Consumer Credit Act, and ask them to provide the information as a matter of urgency

[lookingforward]

Re: fedupwiththeworry's UE Diary

I think Niddy was up to his eyeballs at the time so rather than emailing the docs rec'd I wrote what the contents were

i.e this:-

1 page a4 sheet with my name and address top left and an enclosed section in the centre "your right to cancel" once you have signed this agreement, you will have for a short time a right to cancel it. Exact details of how and when you can do this will be sent to you by post by us. The rest of the page is blank.

Attached to this is a copy of barclaycard agreement-a copy for your records- no name address, or signature on this just various headings and details including credit limit and charges saying they will determine and notify your credit limit from time to time initially it will be a figure specified in the table below. The table shows various amounts from £500 to £2500 and inclusive and exclusive of APR fees for cash advances and purchases.

also attached is a b/c conditions of use.

Then 2 seperate attached pages of Barclaycard conditions.

They had a covering letter saying that this satisfied their obligation under s.78

[lookingforward]

Re: fedupwiththeworry's UE Diary

Just want to check what template to use.
Barclays orig sent me the following in Nov 10

Letter rec’d from B/Card writing with regard to my request for a copy of executed agreement, with current credit limit £0 and bal on a/c £9000 odd, due to current status the full o/s bal is due, if I’m have financial difficulty contact them to agree a mutually acceptable repayment arrangement..
They then say please find enclosed a copy of my original executed agreement and a copy of the T&C's of the a/c prior to it being transferred to their recoveries dept. They then say with reference to the civil procedure rules (the CPR) they have provided me with sufficient information to allow me to understand their position. The CPR does not confer an automatic entitlement to documents before proceedings start. CPR 31.16 provides that a party may apply to the court for pre-action disclosure in certain limited circumstances, which do not apply here. The application must be supported by evidence - and the usual order is for the applicant to pay the costs of the appication, including the respondants costs, together with the respondent's costs of complying with any order that is made as a result (CPR 48.1(2).
While there is no formal obligation on their part to provide documentation in answer to validation of debt correspondance, they have undertaken steps to provide me with the contractual terms under which my financial obligations arise and a statement of a/c.
They are fullt satisfied that the sums o/s by me remains legally due and payable, I should continue to pay if not they may register a default etc.
This completes their obligation under section S.78 of the CCA 1974.

There is attached the following:

1 page a4 sheet with my name and address top left and an enclosed section in the centre "your right to cancel" once you have signed this agreement, you will have for a short time a right to cancel it. Exact details of how and when you can do this will be sent to you by post by us. The rest of the page is blank.

Attached to this is a copy of barclaycard agreement-a copy for your records- no name address, or signature on this just various headings and details including credit limit and charges saying they will determine and notify your credit limit from time to time initially it will be a figure specified in the table below. The table shows various amounts from £500 to £2500 and inclusive and exclusive of APR fees for cash advances and purchases.

also attached is a b/c conditions of use.

Then 2 seperate attached pages of Barclaycard conditions.

On Niddys advice sent back the "CCA Query T&C's supplied" letter

They responded to this a couple of weeks later.

clarifying their position quoting regulation 3 of the CNC regulations i.e various things that may be ommited from a copy agreement

(1) subject to the following provisions of these regulations, every copy of an executed agreement, security instrument or other document referred to in the act and delivered or sent to a debtor, hirer or surety and any provision of the act should be a true copy thereof.
(2)There may be omitted from any such copy -
[....]
(b) Any signature box, signature or date of signature ..."

It is therefore clear that a creditor is not required under section 78 of the act to provide a copy of the agreement bearing the signatures of the parties. This was confirmed by ....(goes on to quote Judge Waksman in Carey V HSBC)

Again quotes the Carey case by stating a recon copy of the agreement can be used which consists of a full set of the T&C's applicable at the date the agreement was entered into and the following ( to the extent that they are not included in the copy T&C's provided)
Then details of the heading, name and addy of debtor & creditor and cancellation clause applicable to the executed agreement.

They say this was provided in the prev letter.

Statement of terms of the agreement as varied.
They quote reg 7 of the CNC regs and say this is covered because an easily legible statement of the terms has been provided to me.

Statement of account
They say this was also provided in the prev letter.

Compliance with section 61 of the act.

To the extent that you seek to allege that the copy agreement provided does not comply with sect 61 of the act and is therefore improperly executed, this is misconceived.
They refer me to para 230 of waksman v hsbc which states that it is insufficient, without more, to point to te absence of a signed , or any proper s78 copy as a foundation for a plea of an [improperly executed agreement]

For the avoidance of doubt, we believe your credit agreement to be fully compliant with the act and any allegations that it is not will be opposed. Please note that where a photocopy of an application has been provided to you for reference, this is not a copy of the complete doc but only a copy of one page. T&C's, including the prescribed terms, would have been on the reverse of this page at the time it was signed. Additionally, the document would have been easily legible at the time of signature.

I trust this has addressed my concerns etc etc, as their response meets the requirements of the act I should continue to pay. Based upon this info they do not class tha A/C as being in dispute and they will continue to persue the debt etc etc.


For the purposes of the FOS this is their final response.

As I said this was in Nov 10 and I've heard no more until this assignnment letter so would appreciate as nudge as to which letter to send to Lowells.

Thx

[Never-In-Doubt]

Re: fedupwiththeworry's UE Diary

Just want to check what template to use.
Barclays orig sent me the following in Nov 10

As I said this was in Nov 10 and I've heard no more until this assignnment letter so would appreciate as nudge as to which letter to send to Lowells.

Thx

apologies for the delay, send lowells this: ---> Our Templates | Unenforceability Templates | Final Response - CCA Request

[lookingforward]

Re: fedupwiththeworry's UE Diary

Will do Niddy, thanks

[lookingforward]

Re: fedupwiththeworry's UE Diary

Hi Niddy,

Shall I modify this to state I requested the info from B/C as the way it reads is that I've asked Lowells and even sent them a couple of reminders and they've responded aking me to go back to the original creditor, or leave it as it is ?

Thx

[Never-In-Doubt]

Re: fedupwiththeworry's UE Diary

Hi Niddy,

Shall I modify this to state I requested the info from B/C as the way it reads is that I've asked Lowells and even sent them a couple of reminders and they've responded aking me to go back to the original creditor, or leave it as it is ?

Thx

sure modify to suit your position