Originally posted by Never-In-Doubt
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Roger UE Diary
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Re: PRA GROUP (UK) LIMITED ( HOWELL JONES LLP ) v Roger - Issued 1 December 2015
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Re: Roger UE Diary
Originally posted by Roger View PostSorry!! But I have never discussed this with anybody.
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Re: PRA GROUP (UK) LIMITED ( HOWELL JONES LLP ) v Roger - Issued 1 December 2015
Originally posted by Roger View PostShe! Yes Plan B! Let me put this lot together scan it and send it over.
HSBC on the very Day of the Case were producing last minute paper works including a further late Witness Statement. Costs escalated and were advised day before! The Original Witness wasn't present to be questioned over their statement.
I was blamed by Counsel for refusing to agree a change of Claim dropping CCA 1974!
Your argument is moving away from the start date of 1976 and towards the unlawful inception of the midland bank CREDIT CARDS in the 90's. Hence the CCA should apply as should your consumer rights. See what the expert says.
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Re: PRA GROUP (UK) LIMITED ( HOWELL JONES LLP ) v Roger - Issued 1 December 2015
Originally posted by PlanB View PostIf you raised it orally at the hearing then get a transcript.
It was the DJ's job to read the WS (evidence before the court) not your job to make him read it.
He had to consider all the facts in front of him.
Plan B x
HSBC on the very Day of the Case were producing last minute paper works including a further late Witness Statement. Costs escalated and were advised day before! The Original Witness wasn't present to be questioned over their statement.
I was blamed by Counsel for refusing to agree a change of Claim dropping CCA 1974!
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Re: Roger UE Diary
Originally posted by Roger View PostThank you its seem strange putting the HSBC CC in the Diary BUT this was part of the original plan agreed with ALL my Unsecured Creditors. Hence putting the saga in the Diary and telling the story. If nothing else it helps others especially with these pre 1977 Cards (and they and their predecessors are still around!)
Arghhhhhh
Anyway do nothing until Jo suggests best advice
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Re: PRA GROUP (UK) LIMITED ( HOWELL JONES LLP ) v Roger - Issued 1 December 2015
Originally posted by Roger View PostI told the Judge! That HSBC had simply sent me their Card . . . .
I was honest with the Judge! But failed to point something in their witness statement that the had looked for the Agreement but the signed agreement wasn't necessary .
It was the DJ's job to read the Claimant's WS (evidence before the court) not your job to make him read it.
He had to consider all the facts in front of him.
Plan B x
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Re: Roger UE Diary
Thank you its seem strange putting the HSBC CC in the Diary BUT this was part of the original plan agreed with ALL my Unsecured Creditors. Hence putting the saga in the Diary and telling the story. If nothing else it helps others especially with these pre 1977 Cards (and they and their predecessors are still around!)
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Re: PRA GROUP (UK) LIMITED ( HOWELL JONES LLP ) v Roger - Issued 1 December 2015
Originally posted by PlanB View PostDid you raise this legal argument in your Defence?
If you didn't then I doubt you'll be allowed a second bite of the cherry.
A DJ can only be expected to consider the facts put before him at the time (Claim(POC)/Defence/WSs/oral evidence at the hearing).
Send your Defence to Niddy and we'll see where this leads.
Plan B x
I was honest with the Judge! But failed to point something in their witness statement that the had looked for the Agreement but the signed agreement wasn't necessary (words to that effect).
The judge told me I should have gone to a solicitor!!
I didn't issue a witness statement just my defence and counterclaim with evidential docs.
The Judge really gave them a Hollow victory because their Costs were unpaid and more or less equal to the debt + interest.Last edited by Roger; 4 December 2015, 23:20.
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Re: Roger UE Diary
I've just made Jo aware so remind her tmw when you chat.
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Re: Roger UE Diary
Originally posted by Never-In-Doubt View PostThat allows for an application (appeal) that's out of time
The original Defence was
The defendant puts the claimant to strict proof of each and every fact pleaded in their particulars of claim.
The claimant response to defendant’s request for copies of this alleged agreement . a) 16th December 2013 (“the credit card was opened in 1976 and as our client is not required to keep documents that are older that 6 years, they no longer hold a copy”)
b) 7th January 2014 (“We understand that until we do this we may be unable to take action in the courts”)
The first reference to a 1976 date was (a) above.
The Consumer Credit Act 1974 came into force on 31st July 1974.
However different sections of the Act were phased in over a number of years & under the Consumer Credit Act 1974 (Commencement No.2) Order 1977, credit agreements made before 1st April 1977 were not regulated agreements under the Act.
The claimants alleged agreement dated 1st August 1976 does not come under the Consumer Credit Act 1974.
The defendant recalls signing no such document.
I was forced by the court to change this or loose by default!
I will dig out the more lengthly amended Defence
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Re: PRA GROUP (UK) LIMITED ( HOWELL JONES LLP ) v Roger - Issued 1 December 2015
Originally posted by Roger View PostThey simply sent out HSBC card with updated Credit Limit!! The Personal Loan was because I cleared this right down (big chunk of money) off my head (but I can check the dates 2005/7?
If you didn't then I doubt you'll be allowed a second bite of the cherry.
A DJ can only be expected to consider the facts put before him at the time (Claim(POC)/Defence/WSs/oral evidence at the hearing).
Send your Defence to Niddy and we'll see where this leads.
Plan B x
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Re: PRA GROUP (UK) LIMITED ( HOWELL JONES LLP ) v Roger - Issued 1 December 2015
Originally posted by Roger View PostExactly what happened! They simply sent out HSBC card with updated Credit Limit!! The Personal Loan was because I cleared this right down (big chunk of money) off my head (but I can check the dates 2005/7?
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Re: PRA GROUP (UK) LIMITED ( HOWELL JONES LLP ) v Roger - Issued 1 December 2015
Originally posted by Never-In-Doubt View PostWhich is correct process, as per the regulations (Copy Docs Reg.9) - however the problem occurs with how the cards were incepted. If they just sent you the new credit cards then that changed everything as the relevant sections of CCA were enacted in the late 90's (ie s.60/61/78/87/88 etc etc)....
Likewise, it began as Access (restricted) and went to Visa & MasterCard which was widely accepted (Access wasn't and you couldn't withdraw cash either (from ATM)).
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