Debtguy's UE diary

[Joanna Connolly Solicitors]

See Di's post above...

I live abroad, and from 2015. . . In December I got a letter from one of the debt collectors saying they would apply for a CCJ if I didn't contact them within a month, which I didn't.

. . . . I am getting the estate agent who is selling it for us to check for mail once a week, but last week there was an offer accepted on the flat, and when/if the sale goes through it will become much harder

If the agency does apply for a CCJ and I see it and fight it, I think they will lose, because the paperwork they have (from 2004) is pretty rubbish and does not have my signature.

Hello

We have spoken about this but it would be wrong of me to post any detail on the forum. However you have mentioned three relevant things in your thread post.

You live abroad and have done since 2015 when you ceased payments so you are very/extremely close to the debt becoming Statute Barred so be careful not to acknowledge the debt at this stage.

You have received a Letter of Claim (which you emailed me) so it's a balance between drawing attention to yourself resulting in them taking a closer look at your file and then issue a claim to beat the Statute Barred clock (they can ignore Pre Action Protocol 30 days in those circumstances) when they realize your situation. Or find a way to monitor the post.

You say an offer was received on the property last week, but that can take months to complete with the need for Local Authority searches etc. In the meantime the estate agent is checking your post for you.

A set aside of any Default Judgment would need you to evidence that you live abroad which you can easily provide. This is also an account opened in 2004 so the debt purchaser chasing you would have to comply with any s77-79 CCA Request so consider whether sending one may prevent the claim, or at least delay the claim. However if you have already done that then don't send another if the response was an unenforceable credit agreement.

Maybe wait until the flat sale nears completion before you need to do anything.

Di

[debtguy]

Hi Debtguy,

Try to avoid getting a CCJ if possible.

It might be better for you to respond to that correspondence giving them an address for service if they do decide to issue a claim and inform them that the address they currently have on record is an old one and is incorrect.

Thanks for the useful info, Sam - much appreciated. I had been wondering if the best thing to do was to give them better contact details - it seems a shame, because I have been avoiding doing that for the last five years! The only practical address I can give them is my foreign one, because all the people in the UK whose address I could give them are reluctant to let me do so because they are worried about debt collectors turning up at their door! And wouldn't they then share it with all the other debt agencies, and unleash a torrent of claims from other debt agencies against me? Although maybe this is inevitable in the end, because presumably all the others will 'have a go' as the SB date approaches?

Thanks again for the quick and helpful reply - it is so much more reassuring fighting this with everyone's help and support than it would be alone (I'd have caved in if I'd been alone!).

[debtguy]

Hi,
have you not become resident in the country you are living in?
do you own any of the properties the post is going to?

NW

Hi NW, and thanks for the reply

Yes, I am resident here, and I know that helps, but what has changed things is that I now have an asset in the UK (another flat that I inherited), so there is now something they could lay their sticky mitts on, whereas there wasn't before. It is not however the flat that the mail is being forwarded from nor the one where I am on the electoral roll, but the one where it was being forwarded to until recently (we have just had to stop that because it is now being rented, because it was taking so long to sell).

[debtguy]

[Edited down a bit to cover just the things I'm answering]
You live abroad and have done since 2015 when you ceased payments so you are very/extremely close to the debt becoming Statute Barred so be careful not to acknowledge the debt at this stage.

You have received a Letter of Claim (which you emailed me) so it's a balance between drawing attention to yourself resulting in them taking a closer look at your file and then issue a claim to beat the Statute Barred clock (they can ignore Pre Action Protocol 30 days in those circumstances) when they realize your situation. Or find a way to monitor the post.

You say an offer was received on the property last week, but that can take months to complete with the need for Local Authority searches etc. In the meantime the estate agent is checking your post for you.

A set aside of any Default Judgment would need you to evidence that you live abroad which you can easily provide. This is also an account opened in 2004 so the debt purchaser chasing you would have to comply with any s77-79 CCA Request so consider whether sending one may prevent the claim, or at least delay the claim. However if you have already done that then don't send another if the response was an unenforceable credit agreement.

Maybe wait until the flat sale nears completion before you need to do anything.

Di

Thanks Di - this is also very useful. Yes, the offer that has been received on the flat was very recent (since we spoke - so is the letting of the other one!), and the buyers have a place to sell, so a) it might not actually happen at all; and b) as you say, it could take months. The estate agent is being very helpful, and we also have a friend nearby who could do it for us, but she is currently unable to go there because of the lockdown! However, when the lockdown finishes she could pop over regularly, and even if the buyers were in there she might be able to make it work - I suppose it depends on what they are like!

One thing I don't know and meant to ask on the phone - what kind of timescale do I get to respond to a court claim if one is issued? The estate agent is going over every 10 days or so, so in practical terms that means that it could be up to two weeks before I can respond - is that too long a timescale, or do they give you longer than that? I think and hope that it ought to be about a month, to allow for people who are away or on holiday when it arrives!

And yes, I have an unenforceable credit agreement (it looks really iffy to me!), although it is from the original lender rather that the debt collection agency - perhaps I should request one from them as well? The trouble with that is that it then again brings up the issue of what to put as the return address!

And finally, thanks for the info about living abroad being helpful in getting a judgment set aside - I had hoped that might help, but I wasn't sure!

Finally, it is between 9 and 10 months to the SBs now - the defaults were all in November 2015, and presumably each runs from the date of when the payment was due, so some of them could be near the end of the month but they were on various dates through the month.

Thanks again - this is really helpful!

[Warwick65]

If a claim lands on your doorstep you have 19 days to acknowledge it. This can be done online. The 19 days is made up of 5 days for 'service' and then 14 days. Usually these things arrive pretty quickly - mine was posted on the Friday and arrived on the Saturday but as we know, at the moment the post is a mess with so many people isolating. Once you have acknowledges it you have a further 14 days to submit a defence so a total of 33 days in total.

That would be more than enough time to contact Di and get the ball rolling if that is what you wanted to do. I get why you worry a little about the timeframe but even if the 19 days came and went, unless the enemy were on the ball and applied for default judgement on day 20 you would might still have a few days grace to acknowledge the claim- I say MIGHT , nothing is a given at that point

[debtguy]

If a claim lands on your doorstep you have 19 days to acknowledge it. This can be done online. The 19 days is made up of 5 days for 'service' and then 14 days. Usually these things arrive pretty quickly - mine was posted on the Friday and arrived on the Saturday but as we know, at the moment the post is a mess with so many people isolating. Once you have acknowledges it you have a further 14 days to submit a defence so a total of 33 days in total.

That would be more than enough time to contact Di and get the ball rolling if that is what you wanted to do. I get why you worry a little about the timeframe but even if the 19 days came and went, unless the enemy were on the ball and applied for default judgement on day 20 you would might still have a few days grace to acknowledge the claim- I say MIGHT , nothing is a given at that point

Thanks - that's really reassuring! I am pretty sure we can have it covered in 19/33 days whatever happens, and the online response is very reassuring - I was thinking I'd have to allow 3 weeks for international post, because that is almost at a standstill at the moment (mind you, it's never super-quick - I used to run it!).

And yes, I shall DEFINITELY be getting Di to deal with it - no way am I doing anything like this by myself! One more question - do you know if I have to appear in person? At the moment I don't think I would actually be allowed to!

[Joanna Connolly Solicitors]

One thing I don't know and meant to ask on the phone - what kind of timescale do I get to respond to a court claim if one is issued? The estate agent is going over every 10 days or so, so in practical terms that means that it could be up to two weeks before I can respond - is that too long a timescale, or do they give you longer than that? I think and hope that it ought to be about a month, to allow for people who are away or on holiday when it arrives!

And yes, I have an unenforceable credit agreement (it looks really iffy to me!), although it is from the original lender rather that the debt collection agency - perhaps I should request one from them as well? The trouble with that is that it then again brings up the issue of what to put as the return address!

You've posted that your main concern is you have an asset in the UK so want to avoid a Charging Order (or a Restriction if it's jointly owned).

However there would have to be a CCJ in place before the debt owner could pursue that, and you should be made aware of any subsequent Application for a Final Charging Order so you could contest that.

If a Default Judgment occurs because you don't respond to the claim with your Acknowledgment of Service by the deadline (19 days from claim Issue Date) a copy of that CCJ will be sent to the same address as the claim form was served, so you (your estate agent or friend) would know that happened.

The CCJ would be registered on your CRA file so you would know about it if you login online on a regular basis. I am regularly contacted by people who see a CCJ on their CRA file for the first time some years later, and it only flags up when they get turned down for a mortgage etc. A set-aside is the next step in those situations and must be done promptly (from the date of knowledge).

Or you can stay in contact with me if that helps

You can also send me a copy of the "iffy" credit agreement to the email address you already have di@joannaconnollysolicitors.co.uk

Di

[Warwick65]

I think at the moment all hearings are online but if it did happen , by the time it got to court we might be back to some semblance of normal. I appeared myself but had a very nice man representing me and a little boy representing the claimant.

Did I say, acknowledging and filing defences can all be done online (not sure if you have to be in the uk to actually log on- or at least a uk IP address).

[Joanna Connolly Solicitors]

yes, I shall DEFINITELY be getting Di to deal with it - no way am I doing anything like this by myself! One more question - do you know if I have to appear in person? At the moment I don't think I would actually be allowed to!

I think you're getting a bit ahead of yourself - what court hearing?

The aim is to get the opposition to back down and Discontinue their claim at the earliest opportunity when presented with the reality of the situation (their claim being hopeless in legal terms).

If that doesn't happen quickly enough when put under pressure, then the next aim is to get the claim struck out by the court if it they can't produce the necessary documentation etc. by issuing an Application.

If it carries on then there are Witness Statements and disclosure to deal with. This all takes time. Lots of time. There's a massive backlog of cases in the queue for court at the moment so it could take months.

I don't think you need to worry about coming back to Blighty to attend a Hearing just yet.

Di

[debtguy]

I think you're getting a bit ahead of yourself - what court hearing?

The aim is to get the opposition to back down and Discontinue their claim at the earliest opportunity when presented with the reality of the situation (their claim being hopeless in legal terms).

If that doesn't happen quickly enough when put under pressure, then the next aim is to get the claim struck out by the court if it they can't produce the necessary documentation etc. by issuing an Application.

If it carries on then there are Witness Statements and disclosure to deal with. This all takes time. Lots of time. There's a massive backlog of cases in the queue for court at the moment so it could take months.

I don't think you need to worry about coming back to Blighty to attend a Hearing just yet.

Di

Thanks Di

I was 'what-iffing'! But in fact things have changed a bit because my son has just sent me a scan of a letter from them saying that 'legal proceedings have been issued and I will shortly receive a County Court claim'. I'll send you a scan of the letter!

[Joanna Connolly Solicitors]

Thanks Di

I was 'what-iffing'! But in fact things have changed a bit because my son has just sent me a scan of a letter from them saying that 'legal proceedings have been issued and I will shortly receive a County Court claim'. I'll send you a scan of the letter!

Well the 'what ifs' have become the 'now what?'

We thought that might happen - thank goodness we set up a plan of action.

Can your son find a way to access the property to pick up and scan the claim form when it arrives?

Email me the letter from the debt purchaser's solicitors and I'll arrange another call with you for tomorrow or Wednesday.

Di

[debtguy]

Well the 'what ifs' have become the 'now what?'

We thought that might happen - thank goodness we set up a plan of action.

Can your son find a way to access the property to pick up and scan the claim form when it arrives?

Email me the letter from the debt purchaser's solicitors and I'll arrange another call with you for tomorrow or Wednesday.

Di

Thanks Di

Letter and CCA copies just emailed to you. Thanks for the help!

[Joanna Connolly Solicitors]

Thanks Di

Letter and CCA copies just emailed to you. Thanks for the help!

You're welcome.

I've received your emails and I'm now busy drawing a map of who lives where and when and in what country - this may take me a while . . . .

You have a credit agreement from 2004 which Niddy has deemed unenforceable which is a good start.

We'll speak again shortly.

Di

[Timewilltell]

You're welcome.

I've received your emails and I'm now busy drawing a map of who lives where and when and in what country - this may take me a while . . . .

You have a credit agreement from 2004 which Niddy has deemed unenforceable which is a good start.

We'll speak again shortly.

Di

Crikey Di, I think you get them on just their record keeping never mind asking them to identify several people in several locations, that’s too much for their tiny brains!!!

[Joanna Connolly Solicitors]

I had been wondering if the best thing to do was to give them better contact details - it seems a shame, because I have been avoiding doing that for the last five years!

There can also be an upside to them having an incorrect address for you.

If they decide to reconstitute a credit agreement but don't have enough accurate information from the original creditor, then they may put that incorrect address on the document.

"Were you living at that address on that date?" is one of the first things I ask someone when they send me credit agreements produced by a debt purchaser.

The answer is frequently "no" so the recon is not honest and inaccurate which won't do them any favours in court.

Di