JASSASBLUE - UE Diary

[Pixie]

Re: JASSASBLUE - UE Diary

I have few DCA letters filtering through, so far Niddy has deemed all of my Agreements UE (at this stage but it's early days!) also some are still to reply to the CCA sent 3rd January 2014. Silly question, do I just ignore all letters from DCAs who are chasing for payment? I don't want to keep posting letters all the time on here, do I only act if they mention court proceedings?

Personally I wouldn't ignore all letters the dcas send.

When you receive a letter you don't need to type out the whole letter, just post the gist of it. Then we can let you know whether to ignore or send a letter. If you ignore all letters you run the risk of that going against you should it ever go to court.

[Deepie]

Re: JASSASBLUE - UE Diary

Ok do I ignore this letter please?


Sorry for typing the whole letter, do I ignore, they haven't sent me a default either unless it's on the way!

i would if it were me ....see what they send next.

[jassasblue]

Re: JASSASBLUE - UE Diary

I have few DCA letters filtering through, so far Niddy has deemed all of my Agreements UE (at this stage but it's early days!) also some are still to reply to the CCA sent 3rd January 2014. Silly question, do I just ignore all letters from DCAs who are chasing for payment? I don't want to keep posting letters all the time on here, do I only act if they mention court proceedings?

[jassasblue]

Re: JASSASBLUE - UE Diary

Account Owner Studio Catalogue

Type of account Catalogue
Date commenced 21/09/2004
Approx balance £1299.59
Date last paid DMP 25/12/2013
Are you on arrangement or not paying DMP
Status Arrangement on credit file

Letter Sent
Letter Received

03/01/14 CCA Letter Sent
15/01/14 Reconstituted agreement and statement of account received,
15/01/14 Email to Niddy for advice (signature electronic and definitely not mine!)

Niddy's reply:
It's unenforceable. Stop paying and send them the Missing PT's letter.

Template to send back -> http://www.all-about-debt.co.uk/old/index.php/template-letters/unenforceability/s2-receiving-letters/118-cca-query-missing-prescribed-terms

Now even though we know it's a fraudulent copy, at this stage we don't tell them. So obviously that's why we're sending the missing PT's template so as not to give away your ace card ie they sent a fake recon and faked your signature (fraud).

They won't win if they took you to court, put it that way

16/01/14 PT Letter sent
25/01/14 Reply from Studio, clever nonsense and asking for payment, emailed to Niddy to be sure UE, ignore was the reply - cheers pal!

08/02/14 Letter received - thanking me for my £1 payment 9th January (this was for my CCA request and they've applied it to my account!). Letter states they are to reapply interest and charges to my account as I haven't paid. For every letter they will make a charge

10/02/14 Copy of CCA letter issued and one liner asking to remove £1 as a payment off my account

19/02/14 - 2 Letters from Studio - 1 stating £12 default charge added for non payment and the other contains this: 'As confirmed in a recent court case (Carey v HSBC 2009) Section 78 of the CCA 1974 requires creditors to provide a reconstituted copy of the credit agreement. It further states that of a copy of the original agreement is not required to be provided'. Then later 'We would remind you that the original credit agreement was sent with your order when the account was opened in September 2004. Our customers are asked to sign both copies, returning one copy and to keep their copy in a safe place should they decide to choose repayment by credit terms instead of full payment. By taking advantage of paying the minimum payment every 28 days you are as such subject to the terms and conditions as stated within the credit agreement' and so it goes on....

07/03/14 - Letter sent Creditor Refusal to accept UE status

13/03/14 - Letter from Studio

Ok do I ignore this letter please? I've seen one similar on another post and now I can't find it :-(

Thank you for your letter dated 7th March but on noting your comments I must point out to you that we have never stated we cannot produce a copy of the signed credit agreement.

What has been said is that, with requests for a copy credit agreement under section 78 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974, it is sufficient for us to provide a reconstituted copy of your credit agreement together with relevant financial information relating to the account since its inception. It does not have to be the signed copy that would have been stored in our archives from the date the account was opened in **Month/Year**. This was the outcome of the Carey v HSBC Plc court case of 2009.

A reconstituted copy of your credit agreement has been sent to you for this purpose. The credit agreement is regulated by the Consumer Credit Act and the account was opened for the purpose of purchasing goods and services from our catalogues.

During the life time of this account, opened in September 2004, you have received a total of 94 statements, at 28 day intervals, each of which listed all the financial transactions that have been applied since the previous statement was produced. You could choose to pay by instalments but could pay any amount of your choice above the minimum payment detailed on the statements. If your choice was to pay an amount less than the full balance a service charge of 3.1% (or 2.0% if paying by direct debit) of the brought forward was added to the next statement, together with a service charge on any purchase since your previous statement from the date of despatch up to the statement date. The minimum payment is £10.00 or 8% of the outstanding balance, whichever is the greater amount plus any arrears outstanding from the previous statement.

Given the fact that payments have been withheld the default has been registered with all the Credit Reference Agencies and therefore no further credit is available on the account.

A debt exists and we are aware that the Courts would not have the discretion on whether to grant an enforcement order should a default summons be issued by us because of non payment and it was defended on a spurious challenge to produce a copy of the original signed agreement, as defined by Section 61 of the Consumer Credit act 1974. It is only in such circumstances that it would be cost justified to seek to recover originals from our archives.

Regardless of whether we can locate our copy of the original signed agreement, there is no dispute or denial that the goods we supplied have been accepted, retained beyond the free approval period or that they were unfit for the purpose intended and therefore the debt of £****.** is not void or unlawful.

You have already been made aware that it is our policy, if our customers have genuine problems in paying to terms and can support this with information about their circumstances, to accept reduced payments or even suspend payment altogether until their situation improves. Clearly, from time to time we need to review the situation and look to a resumption of payment if there is sufficient improvement in their situation. Alternately to bring the matter to a close we are prepared to consider a realistic full and final settlement offer should you wish to take this option.

It is considered that we have fully complied with your request and therefore this is our final response. If you are dissatisfied with this response to your complaint you may be able to refer the complaint to the Financial Ombudsman Service.


Sorry for typing the whole letter, do I ignore, they haven't sent me a default either unless it's on the way!

[jassasblue]

Re: JASSASBLUE - UE Diary

Thanks Deepie, I knew about this letter, I just wasn't sure whether to send one liner about referring them to my letter 3rd Feb. I'll take your advice, thank you.

[Deepie]

Re: JASSASBLUE - UE Diary

Do I just ignore the doorstep letter? So far, CCA request still outstanding, bounced between Citi and Moorcroft.

• Send them this----> Harassment & Threat of Doorstep-Visit

[jassasblue]

Re: JASSASBLUE - UE Diary

Account Owner Moorcroft Debt Recovery, previously Citi Cards

Type of account Credit Card
Date commenced Unknown poss 95 - 96
Approx balance £1476.34
Date last paid DMP 25/12/2013
Are you on arrangement or not paying DMP
Status Dropped off Credit File

Letter Sent
Letter Received

03/01/14 CCA Letter Sent
13/01/14 Letter received from Moorcroft saying contact Citi Financial for CCA
16/01/14 CCA Letter sent to Citi Financial
01/02/14 Letter Received from Citi Cards
unfortunately we are no longer able to assist you as your card account has been sold to third party organisation. All information requests (other than data subject information requests under the Data Protection Act 1998) must be requested directly from the third party organisation who purchased your account. They haven't returned my PO either !!
03/02/14 2nd CCA Letter sent to Moorcroft with copy of Citi Cards Letter
13/02/14 Letter received from Moorcroft - Account in dispute, they are to contact OC, advised I suspend payment and await further outcome.
07/03/14 Letter from Moorcroft, failed to pay arrangement, doorstep visit arranged.

Do I just ignore the doorstep letter? So far, CCA request still outstanding, bounced between Citi and Moorcroft.

[jassasblue]

Re: JASSASBLUE - UE Diary

Got it - I told you I was having a moment, and no they haven't supplied me with that. I'll keep you posted. I'm sure it won't be long before I hear back from them.

[Never-In-Doubt]

Re: JASSASBLUE - UE Diary

What I said was that The Consumer Credit Act 1974 (Electronic Communications) Order 2004 came into force in December 2004 meaning any online agreements entered into prior to this date still need a signed executed credit agreement. As yours was after this date the tick in the box is fine, however they should supply a copy of the actual tick-in-the-box as opposed to a signed application, if you see what I mean?

It's all very well them saying you did this, so they need to send a copy then to prove it!

I wouldn't respond yet - see what they send next, keep us updated.

[jassasblue]

Re: JASSASBLUE - UE Diary

Ok further to my previous post, I thought I'd update, just in case anyone else is in the same position!! Here is a summary of the letter from American Express:

You have acknowledged receipt of our letter dated 5th February 2O14, in which we have provided a copy of your internet application and relevant Terms and Conditions for the above account. However, you believe the debt cannot be enforced, as it appears you are of the understanding that the Agreement must be signed by or on behalf of the Creditor. Having reviewed the account we do not understand your belief that American Express' failure to physically sign the Agreement you entered into ("the Agreement") renders theAgreement unenforceable without a court order. On or around 6th April 2006, you made an online application for an American Express Red Credit Card. You and your client are well aware that the application was submitted online and not as a paper application.

When making the application, you would have seen the following:
This is a Credit Agreement regulated by the Consumer Credit Act 1974. Sign it only if you want to be tegally bound by its terms.
Signature(s)of Borrower(r)
To sign the application please tick the box. By ticking the box and submitting the application you will be entering into a legally binding agreement. You proceeded to tick the box, and in doing so, submitted an electronic signature and entered into a legally binding Agreement with American Express.

Niddy's reply, still no signature or signed copy. I will assume still UE. Should I send Creditor refusal to accept UE?

Note to self, not to panic when I get a very cleverly worded letter through the post. It's early days for me and relatively quiet, I still haven't had replies or correspondence to my CCA request from Marlin (Lloyds TSB) or Apex (MBNA) and I sent it 3rd January 2014. I'm sitting tight on those and very grateful for this forum in my moment of sheer panic. Thanks guys!

[jassasblue]

Re: JASSASBLUE - UE Diary

Account Owner Allied International Credit, previously Amex

• Type of account Credit Card
• Date commenced 11/04/2006
• Approx balance £3112.91
• Date last paid DMP 25/12/2013
• Are you on arrangement or not paying DMP
• Status Default 26/07/2008

Letter Sent
Letter Received

03/01/14 CCA Letter Sent 03/01/2014
20/01/14 No reply yet
21/01/14 Letter from Amex returning CCA letter requesting signature and also asking for any previous names (I've changed back to my maiden name 7 years ago)
24/01/14 Letter Sent http://www.all-about-debt.co.uk/old/...d-of-signature
07/02/14 Letter from Amex with copy agreement emailed to Niddy
09/02/14 Niddy says UE, send missing PT's
10/02/14 Missing PT's sent
17/02/14 Letter from AIC dated 12/02/14 demanding payment - ignored as crossed with missing PT's
22/02/14 Letter from Amex, my Missing PT's letter passed to their Complaints Dept!

06/03/14 Reply received from Amex, refusing to accept UE status as internet application and electronic tick box for signature is equivalent, terms and conditions received, emailed to Niddy

[jassasblue]

Re: JASSASBLUE - UE Diary

Pixie, thank you, letter will be sent to Studio tomorrow. Yes I am keeping envelopes too, although so far most of them are franked so no date showing, stapled to the letters and filed though. Thanks again!

[Pixie]

Re: JASSASBLUE - UE Diary

19/02/14 - 2 Letters from Studio.

1 stating £12 default charge added for non payment and the other contains this: 'As confirmed in a recent court case (Carey v HSBC 2009) Section 78 of the CCA 1974 requires creditors to provide a reconstituted copy of the credit agreement. It further states that of a copy of the original agreement is not required to be provided'. Then later 'We would remind you that the original credit agreement was sent with your order when the account was opened in September 2004. Our customers are asked to sign both copies, returning one copy and to keep their copy in a safe place should they decide to choose repayment by credit terms instead of full payment. By taking advantage of paying the minimum payment every 28 days you are as such subject to the terms and conditions as stated within the credit agreement' and so it goes on....

Do I just ignore, file and wait for the default? Niddy deemed this unenforceable.

I would send Creditor Refusal to Accept UE Status to keep a paper trail going.

25/02/14 Default Notice received, quoting arrears but not sure where they get the figure from, my statement on Saturday shows them quoting a different figure. These were the only one's who refused to stop interest. I'll await the DCA with interest. I take it I don't respond to the Default??

No need to respond to the default, just wait and see who they pass it on to.

By the way, are you keeping the envelopes as well as the letters?

[jassasblue]

Re: JASSASBLUE - UE Diary

Account Owner Argos

Type of account Store Card
Date commenced 16/11/2004
Approx balance £1590.23
Date last paid DMP 25/12/2013
Are you on arrangement or not paying DMP
Status Arrangement on Credit File

Letter Sent
Letter Received

03/01/14 CCA Letter Sent
20/01/14 No response yet
29/01/14 Agreement received (21 pages of small print) emailed to Niddy

Niddy says ignore

03/02/14 Missing PT's template sent
14/02/14 Letter received from Argos - Unfortunately we are unable to locate the signed copy of your agreement. We make no admissions whether or not the agreement was actually signed by yourself and reserve the right to undertake a more thorough search should it become necessary for us to enforce the agreement in court. We accept that unless we are able to locate the signed agreement or otherwise prove that it was signed by you it is unenforceable against you.

Finally after 6 years it looks like I'll get a default, this letter is very safe

25/02/14 Default Notice received, quoting arrears but not sure where they get the figure from, my statement on Saturday shows them quoting a different figure. These were the only one's who refused to stop interest. I'll await the DCA with interest. I take it I don't respond to the Default??

[jassasblue]

Re: JASSASBLUE - UE Diary

Account Owner Studio Catalogue

Type of account Catalogue
Date commenced 21/09/2004
Approx balance £1299.59
Date last paid DMP 25/12/2013
Are you on arrangement or not paying DMP
Status Arrangement on credit file

Letter Sent
Letter Received

03/01/14 CCA Letter Sent
15/01/14 Reconstituted agreement and statement of account received,
15/01/14 Email to Niddy for advice (signature electronic and definitely not mine!)

Niddy's reply:
It's unenforceable. Stop paying and send them the Missing PT's letter.

Template to send back -> http://www.all-about-debt.co.uk/old/index.php/template-letters/unenforceability/s2-receiving-letters/118-cca-query-missing-prescribed-terms

Now even though we know it's a fraudulent copy, at this stage we don't tell them. So obviously that's why we're sending the missing PT's template so as not to give away your ace card ie they sent a fake recon and faked your signature (fraud).

They won't win if they took you to court, put it that way

16/01/14 PT Letter sent
25/01/14 Reply from Studio, clever nonsense and asking for payment, emailed to Niddy to be sure UE, ignore was the reply - cheers pal!
10/02/14 Copy of CCA letter issued and one liner asking to remove £1 as a payment off my account

19/02/14 - 2 Letters from Studio.

1 stating £12 default charge added for non payment and the other contains this: 'As confirmed in a recent court case (Carey v HSBC 2009) Section 78 of the CCA 1974 requires creditors to provide a reconstituted copy of the credit agreement. It further states that of a copy of the original agreement is not required to be provided'. Then later 'We would remind you that the original credit agreement was sent with your order when the account was opened in September 2004. Our customers are asked to sign both copies, returning one copy and to keep their copy in a safe place should they decide to choose repayment by credit terms instead of full payment. By taking advantage of paying the minimum payment every 28 days you are as such subject to the terms and conditions as stated within the credit agreement' and so it goes on....

Do I just ignore, file and wait for the default? Niddy deemed this unenforceable.