My Debt Diary

[DF.Ben]

Hi,

Been visiting this forum for a little while, it's fantastic and everyone seems so helpful! Thought I should post my diary as the letters/calls/emails are getting more threatening so I may really need assistance soon.

I do not have any lump sum available for F&F. Total debts of £39k all defaulted Jul/Aug 2019.

Thank you all for your help in advance!

[DF.Ben]

Debt 1 - PRA Group (Barclaycard)
Date commenced: November 2010
Approx balance: £13k
Status: Defaulted July 2019
Current status: No payment made since June 2020.

History:
May 2020 - CCA request made
September 2020 - PRA have sent photocopies of agreements and terms, claim it is enforceable
January 2021 - Letter from PRA which wasn't prompted by me offering 20% discount to clear the account, so about £10k, not intending to respond.
January 2021 - PRA group put all my accounts on hold for 90 days which is mid April 2021.
January 2021 - Niddy advises the Barclaycard one looks border line only as it's unsigned / no tick in the box
January 2023 - Letter received from Moorcroft saying they are working for PRA group.
March 2023 - Letters from moorcroft about payment plans / discount offer - ignored

[DF.Ben]

Debt 2 - PRA Group (MBNA Credit Card)
Date commenced: June 2018
Approx balance: £7k
Status: Defaulted August 2019
Current status: PRA admit unenforceable. No payment made since June 2020.

History:
May 2020 - CCA request made
June 2020 - PRA can't supply any form of agreement, debt is unenforceable.
June 2020 - PRA offer £4k as settlement, I didn't respond.

[DF.Ben]

Debt 3 - PRA Group (Lloyds Bank Credit Card)
Date commenced: November 2017
Approx balance: £7k
Status: Defaulted August 2019
Current status: Enforceable. No payment made since September 2020.

History:
May 2020 - CCA request made
September 2020 - PRA have sent photocopies of agreements and terms, claim it is enforceable.
January 2021 - Niddy confirmed that the agreement supplied by PRA does appear enforceable as is quite a new one.
January 2021 - Letter from PRA stating if they do not hear from me within 30 days my account will be considered for the next stage which they say wold be putting me on notice that court proceedings may be brought against me.
January 2021 - PRA group put all my accounts on hold for 90 days which is mid April 2021 but in relation to this one they have reminded me that the account has been selected for 'potential litigation activity' but go on to confirm I will not hear from them until after the 90 days.

[DF.Ben]

Debt 4 - PRA Group (Halifax Credit Card)
Date commenced: April 2014
Approx balance: £5.5k
Status: Defaulted August 2019
Current status: Enforceable. No payment made since June 2020, impacted by coronavirus couldn't afford the c.£10 payment plan

History:
May 2020 - CCA request made
September 2020 - PRA have sent photocopies of agreements and terms, claim it is enforceable.
January 2021 - Niddy confirmed that the agreement supplied by PRA does appear enforceable as is quite a new one.
January 2021 - PRA group put all my accounts on hold for 90 days which is mid April 2021.
June 2023 - Received a Letter Before Claim relating to this debt with info sheet and reply form - ignored and haven't heard anything in the 3 months following.

[DF.Ben]

Debt 5 - Tesco Bank Credit Card
Date commenced: April 2017
Approx balance: £6.5k
Status: Defaulted August 2019
Current status: £10 per month payment plan since default

Need to do a CCA request for this one

[DF.Ben]

Is it worth me asking someone to check over the agreements that I have been supplied? They seem to me anyway to contain all of the prescribed terms, the only one is Barclaycard which is missing a credit limit but it does say along the lines of your credit limit will be confirmed when you receive your card.

[nightwatch]

hello and welcome.

agreements should be sent to webmaster@all-about-debt.co.uk, do not blank anything only Niddy will see it.

Thanks for starting your diary, nice and tidy.

Although PRA have a few of the debts and SAY they are enforceable, they are not always correct in their assumptions, so lets se what Niddy says, then take things from there.

best wishes for an enjoyable trip with the team NW

[Joanna Connolly Solicitors]

Is it worth me asking someone to check over the agreements that I have been supplied? They seem to me anyway to contain all of the prescribed terms, the only one is Barclaycard which is missing a credit limit but it does say along the lines of your credit limit will be confirmed when you receive your card.

Hello DF.Ben


There's more to unenforceability of a debt than just the credit agreement which can be picture perfect but the debt purchaser may not be able to prove they've been lawfully assigned the debt, or can't produce a compliant Default Notice or prove all the statutory duties have been met.

I see you have a few debts with PRA, so it seems relevant that I tell you they took me to court and lost which Jo explains in this post here >

‘“RECONSTITUTED AGREEMENT” – IRREDEEMABLY UNENFORCEABLE”
“UNREDACTED DEEDS OF ASSIGNMENT – NO ASSIGNMENT PROVED”


So, held Recorder Bellamy in PRA Group (UK) Limited v Mayhew at Central London County Court on 22nd March 2017, at the end of a 3 day multi track trial, when dismissing PRA’s claim against our client.


Stale debts sued for on the back of 2 ‘reconstituted’ MBNA credit card agreements (May 1999 and October 2000) were held irredeemably unenforceable under CCA 1974. The evidence of an honest witness was preferred to that of so called “reconstituted agreements”.


After 3 days of close forensic examination of, and legal argument about, evidence and documents from both PRA and MBNA stating that our client’s specific debt had been assigned, the court held that no assignment had been proved.


Efforts, over many months, in earlier cases to force PRA into disclosure of un-redacted deeds and deep and sustained forensic challenge to the provenance of documents needed to prove regulatory compliance, finally drew back the veil. The reality behind bulk debt purchasing was revealed.


This decision shows that just saying an agreement is enforceable and producing a “reconstituted” copy does not prove that it is enforceable. Just saying an agreement has been assigned and producing a notice saying it has been assigned does not prove legal assignment.


Debt purchasers need to provide proof. If that means the pitifully few pence in the pound they pay for stale debts will increase because banks will now have to start keeping original evidence complying with regulatory consumer protection measures, it is hard to imagine many tears being shed, outside the City of London.

I look forward to helping you.

Di

[Joanna Connolly Solicitors]

Debt 3 - PRA Group (Lloyds Bank Credit Card)
Date commenced: November 2017
Approx balance: £7k
Status: Defaulted August 2019
Current status: No payment made since September 2020, impacted by coronavirus couldn't afford the c.£10 payment plan

History:
May 2020 - CCA request made
September 2020 - PRA have sent photocopies of agreements and terms, claim it is enforceable
January 2021 - Letter from PRA stating if they do not hear from me within 30 days my account will be considered for the next stage which they say would be putting me on notice that court proceedings may be brought against me.

That doesn't sound like a Letter of Claim - just a letter threatening to send you another letter. It's pressure that's all.

Post up Niddy's opinion on enforceability of the documents which you’ve been sent, but as I said before there's more to it than just the credit agreement.

I've told you about my case where PRA were defeated, so here's another one to help you feel less intimidated. This is one of Colin's successes>

Today I represented a consumer at a preliminary hearing, in respect of his defence to a claim issued by PRA Group (UK) Limited. The claimant was suing the defendant for money it alleged was outstanding, in respect of an alleged credit agreement regulated by the Consumer Credit Act 1974. The claimant said it was able to bring a claim against the defendant as all rights and duties in respect of the alleged credit agreement had been assigned/sold to it, by Barclays Bank UK PLC.

Although Barclays Bank UK PLC hadn’t actually been incorporated as a company in 2012, being the year the claimant alleged it entered into a credit agreement with the defendant, the claimant was relying on what was, on the face of it, incomplete terms and conditions which the claimant said was a copy of the alleged credit agreement.

At the hearing the claimant’s appointed advocate invited the court to strike out the defendant’s defence and to enter judgment in the claimant’s favour.

Unfortunately, the court had not received the defendant’s witness statement or any of the evidence the defendant had in support of his case. However, when I addressed the court on the fact the claimant was inviting the court to enter judgment against a consumer, in respect of regulated credit agreement which hadn’t been disclosed, and that the claimant was barred from entering judgment against a consumer whilst in breach of a Section 78/CCA request, the court ultimately dismissed the claimant’s claim and rejected the claimant’s request for more time, which it was said may or may not allow the claimant to adduce evidence.

It was only after my initial submissions to the court that the claimant’s request for judgment fell away, which is unsurprising when the claimant’s advocate then made the admission that the claimant had been informed by Barclays, that no copy of a credit agreement could be provided. The judge, in giving judgment, agreed with my submissions that the debt was unenforceable and that the claimant should have had a copy of an agreement before it decided to issue a claim, as it would otherwise not know if the alleged agreement upon which it sued, was in fact enforceable. The court found it could dismiss the claim at a preliminary hearing as the claimant’s case stood no prospect of success and there was no need for a trial. This avoided the defendant having to pay costs of proceeding to, and having to attend court and give evidence at, a trial.

It is important to note the defendant had not instructed Joanna Connolly Solicitors until late in proceedings and after the claim had been allocated for a trial to be listed for hearing. The claimant had sent the defendant a copy of the incomplete document, which it claimed was an enforceable credit agreement. It follows that, although debt purchasing claimant’s may disclose to a consumer a document which it says is a credit agreement, it may not always be the case that such a document is an agreement which is enforceable and which resolves a creditors statutory obligation to comply with a Section 77/78 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974. Even though the claimant may say it is.

Di

[Spud]

Hi and welcome to the forum

Just to echo what Di Mayhew and Nightwatch have already said

PRA had a few debts of mine and would send me half a rainforest a week claiming that everything was enforceable and jumping up and down about how I should do this or that - Seriously they could have given themselves an ulcer with all the frantic letter sending

Truth of the matter is tho, When it came down to it, They weren't enforceable

And as people have correctly said, There is a lot more to an account being enforceable than just an agreement. The amount of times on here we have seen an enforceable agreement but the debt wasn't assigned correctly or other important points couldn't be satisfied. Its so common

Hang in there, Post up as you get updates from Niddy or letters from creditors, Your doing great

[DF.Ben]

Thanks all, much appreciated.

Sent the files over to Niddy over the weekend so will update when I hear back.

I'll be able to afford to make payments again from next month. Would you be recommending I do not pay them anything further at this point and don't enter into sending them new I&E etc?

[Night Monkey]

Whether or not to stop paying is always a personal decision, and I spent quite a few months prevaricating before I finally pulled the plug. That's when the journey proper starts, and I can certainly say that I haven't regretted it.

And no, I wouldn't be sending them any completed I&E forms :-)

[DF.Ben]

Hi everyone,

Niddy has looked over the 3 documents and advised, that the Barclaycard one is the only one that looks borderline as it's unsigned / no tick in the box. The two LBG ones are both too new and look enforceable.

PRA have helpfully put my accounts on hold for 90 days as I informed them again that I was financially impacted by coronavirus.

Updated above.

Thanks guys, hope everyone is having a great weekend!

[Timewilltell]

My advice Ben, is to ignore all that they send whether advised enforceable or not, carry on with your life and only take action when the court claim papers drop, they prey on people bowing to their pressure, as it is written, resist the devil and he shall flee.
just make sure that you keep filing all that arrives so that you have your own paper trail.