Egg CCA

[Black Monday]

Hi
I joined AAD in November but have not posted yet but this morning I have been reading posts from BETTINGMAD in 2013 about an egg/barclaycard credit card agreement and it seems he received the exact paperwork that I have received and he was told by Niddy it was unenforceable however I can't get on the link to see what Niddy told him to reply.

I did receive a LBA from PRA and replied ticking box D saying the debt is in dispute due to non compliance of the CCA request but I have received a letter back from PRA saying they still deem enforceable because they have provided an agreement but all I have received is 'terms' exactly the same as BETTINGMAD.

Don't know where to go from here.
Any help would be gratefully received

[nightwatch]

Hello BM, thisis a little tricky as they are replying to a LBA, in the past we would of sent the T&C template , which means that is all you received, then await them to say they have sent for the original CCA, BUT,
PRA are very quick off the mark at sending the Court paperwork, so If you tell them what is missing ,it could give them chance to remedy the gap,
we are looking at updating the template letters, you can imagine what a task that can be ,

so please let's see if someone can come up with another idea. if you keep your diary updated with anything that can be of help to us, that would be, fan-dabby- dozey

NW

[Black Monday]

NW thanks for replying
In their letter PRA have given me 30 days to get back to them again if I want to ask any further questions, they have also enclosed I&E forms.

When I did my original CCA request they said it was unenforceable but then came up with copies of paperwork from barclaycard/egg.

This is has been going on now for 18 months, don't know wether to call it a day and start paying or ask for a full and final settlement, finding it all very stressful.

[Joanna Connolly Solicitors]

I have been reading posts from BETTINGMAD in 2013 about an egg/barclaycard credit card agreement and it seems he received the exact paperwork that I have received and he was told by Niddy it was unenforceable . .

I did receive a LBA from PRA and replied ticking box D saying the debt is in dispute due to non compliance of the CCA request but I have received a letter back from PRA saying they still deem enforceable because they have provided an agreement but all I have received is 'terms' exactly the same as BETTINGMAD.

Hello

No two debts are the same and law evolves as case law evolves so what was relevant to BETTINGMAD's situation in 2013 may not be applicable in your case.

A s77-79 CCA Request is for 'information' purposes not 'proof' purposes. So a debt owner can send you 'something' to satisfy their statutory obligation under s77-79 but that doesn't mean the 'something' they sent will pass other legal tests.

Also there's more to unenforceability than just the credit agreement. There can be assignment issues, lack of correctly served Default Notice etc. etc

The way forward is to post the history of this debt using this format >

• Type of account (credit card/loan/overdraft, catalogue account etc)
• Date commenced (ideally before April 2007)
• Approx balance
• Date last paid (approximate date you last made a FULL payment)
• Are you on arrangement or not paying
• Status (default/in arrears/up-to-date)
• Account owner (who is writing to you, the original lender/ debt purchaser or a DCA)

I look forward to helping you.

Di

[Joanna Connolly Solicitors]

This is has been going on now for 18 months, don't know wether to call it a day and start paying or ask for a full and final settlement, finding it all very stressful.

Just because PRA say the debt is enforceable that doesn't mean it is.

Only a court can rule that, if things ever get that far.

I defeated PRA in court last year (PRA v Diana Mayhew ) where the Recorder (Judge) ruled two credit agreements produced by PRA were irredeemably unenforceable despite what they had claimed.

‘“RECONSTITUTED AGREEMENT” – IRREDEEMABLY UNENFORCEABLE”

“UNREDACTED DEEDS OF ASSIGNMENT – NO ASSIGMENT PROVED”

So, held Recorder Bellamy in PRA Group (UK) Limited v Mayhew at Central London County Court on 22nd March 2017, at the end of a 3 day multi track trial, when dismissing PRA’s claim against our client.

Stale debts sued for on the back of 2 ‘reconstituted’ MBNA credit card agreements (May 1999 and October 2000) were held irredeemably unenforceable under CCA 1974. The evidence of an honest witness was preferred to that of so called “reconstituted agreements”.

After 3 days of close forensic examination of, and legal argument about, evidence and documents from both PRA and MBNA stating that our client’s specific debt had been assigned, the court held that no assignment had been proved.

Efforts, over many months, in earlier cases to force PRA into disclosure of un-redacted deeds and deep and sustained forensic challenge to the provenance of documents needed to prove regulatory compliance, finally drew back the veil. The reality behind bulk debt purchasing was revealed.

This decision shows that just saying an agreement is enforceable and producing a “reconstituted” copy does not prove that it is enforceable. Just saying an agreement has been assigned and producing a notice saying it has been assigned does not prove legal assignment.

Debt purchasers need to provide proof. If that means the pitifully few pence in the pound they pay for stale debts will increase because banks will now have to start keeping original evidence complying with regulatory consumer protection measures, it is hard to imagine many tears being shed, outside the City of London.

Di

[Black Monday]

Hi Di

i have spent the past 2 hours compiling a reply, tried to post it but it's got lost....... I'll start again!!

Type of Account: Credit Card originally Egg and then barclaycard

Date commenced with Egg 2002

Approx balance: £4608

Date last paid: May 2017 (was on a debt management plan with CCCS from March 2012 to May 2017)

Status: 31/1/14 letter from barclaycard saying Account should have been defaulted, they will default from 27/9/2012

10/7/15 letter from barclaycard saying Account transferred to PRA Group (uk) LTD

1/9/15 letter from barclaycard saying transferred to PRA on 17/8/15
1/9/15 letter from PRA saying they have purchased outstanding balance with barclaycard
5/5/17 sent CCA request
25/5/17 received copies of correspondence sent to PRA FROM BARCLAYCARD enclosing the following:
one A4 sheet with my name and address on plus a box with writing inside saying "your right to cancel once you have signed agreement. Exact details of how and when you can do this will be sent to you by post by us.

a copy of a reconstructed credit card agreement several pages long with no names and addresses on it.
First paragraph says this agreement sets out what we will do for you and what you must do for us in relation to the Egg card. It is contained in these card conditions and agreement form signed by you (there was no copy of any Egg agreement in any paperwork.

also enclosed 2 sheets of barclaycard conditions and some sort of statements saying what I owe.

nothing heard again until 16/7/18, received a letter asking me to contact PRA, I DID NOT

July/August/September/October/November/December offers of settlement with 10% discount

20/12/18

[Black Monday]

Sorry it's cut off some of my typing
20/12/18
LBA from PRA, replied on 18/1/2019 ticked box D, debt in dispute due to non compliance with CCA request

24/1/2019 letter back from PRA enclosing same copies of correspondence they sent in May 17, saying they now consider enforceable as we can provide an agreement which shows the terms and conditions that were agreed to at the time you agreeing to receive these funds. Any areas where the agreement is lacking or in error would need to be defended in court if the decision to litigate is made.

they have given me 30 days to get back to them!!!

any help appreciated....
BM. x

[Joanna Connolly Solicitors]

Hi Di

i have spent the past 2 hours compiling a reply, tried to post it but it's got lost....... I'll start again!!

Type of Account: Credit Card originally Egg and then barclaycard

Date commenced with Egg 2002

. . . .

5/5/17 sent CCA request
25/5/17 received copies of correspondence sent to PRA FROM BARCLAYCARD enclosing the following:
one A4 sheet with my name and address on plus a box with writing inside saying "your right to cancel once you have signed agreement. Exact details of how and when you can do this will be sent to you by post by us.

a copy of a reconstructed credit card agreement several pages long with no names and addresses on it.

So sorry you've had technical problems with posting on the forum.

I'm going to ask a question even though I think I know the answer

PRA have sent you a reconstituted 'credit agreement' which is in the name of Barclaycard even though you opened the account with Egg?

They've also sent you reconstituted Ts & Cs from Egg.

I've seen this a lot

Barclaycard acquired the Egg credit card portfolio in 2011 but in my experience they didn't always acquire the necessary paperwork.

You say you've responded to PRA's Letter Before Claim to say you dispute the debt. They say they dispute your dispute.

There's nothing more you need to do at this stage.

I suggest you email a copy of the documents you've received from PRA to Never-in-Doubt (aka Niddy) using webmaster@all-about-debt.co.uk. I think he's away at the moment so you can email them to me too in the meantime di@joannaconnollysolicitors.co.uk

Di

[Joanna Connolly Solicitors]

letter back from PRA . . . . Any areas where the agreement is lacking or in error would need to be defended in court if the decision to litigate is made.

I can't argue with that statement

That's the way the justice system works.

Someone makes a claim and the defendant defends it.

That doesn't mean the Claimant will win!

#InnocentUntilProvenGuilty

Di

[Black Monday]

Hi Di

barclays sent me a reconstructed Egg credit card agreement and a copy of a barclaycard agreement saying these are the terms and conditions of an agreement between me and barclaycard, I have never had an agreement with barclaycard.

if I email them to you, could I photograph them as scanner not working at the moment.

THANKYOU

BM

[Joanna Connolly Solicitors]

Hi Di

barclays sent me a reconstructed Egg credit card agreement and a copy of a barclaycard agreement saying these are the terms and conditions of an agreement between me and barclaycard, I have never had an agreement with barclaycard.

Exactly

It's easy to feel unsettled by deadlines given, but try not to. Maybe see it as bullying?

Yes a photo is ok to send me

Di

[Black Monday]

Thanks for your help Di, I will do it tomorrow, I'm exhausted tonight, I'll stop fretting now.

[Joanna Connolly Solicitors]

20/12/18 LBA from PRA, replied on 18/1/2019 ticked box D, debt in dispute due to non compliance with CCA request

24/1/2019 letter back from PRA enclosing same copies of correspondence they sent in May 17, saying they now consider enforceable as we can provide an agreement which shows the terms and conditions that were agreed to at the time you agreeing to receive these funds. Any areas where the agreement is lacking or in error would need to be defended in court if the decision to litigate is made.

they have given me 30 days to get back to them

Lawyers have an expression "we don't litigate through correspondence".

You've told PRA you have a dispute, and you've told them why (non compliance with your CCA Request).

The only thing left for you to do is carry out research to support your Defence if they do issue a claim. I wouldn't enter into any more dialogue in case you encourage them to remedy their mistakes.

I suggest you send a Subject Access Request to both Barclaycard and Egg (they're free to request since May 2018 ) so you get the full history of what went on over the years in readiness for any claim which lands on your mat. There's no knowing if that will happen.

If that does happen there will be opportunities for you to settle along the way without getting a CCJ (i.e. Tomlin Order or Mediation) if that seems to be the right thing to do.

However from what you have said so far it looks as if PRA have not produced the relevant documents for this Egg credit card. If you respond to that latest letter you may only nudge them to try harder to get things right, and then they'll issue the claim with your help.

Di

[Black Monday]

Hi Di

i have emailed you with all the correspondence I have received from PRA with regards to the CCA's from Egg/Barclaycard, thanks in advance for looking through them.

with regards to you last post, I have already sent a SAR to Egg but I have had a reply from them asking for the old credit card account number which I don't have! I will however send a SAR to Barclaycard to see what they have.

i have already managed to see off an MBNA debt which is now owned by PRA but stuck with the Egg one now they say it's enforceable. I was hoping to keep going it alone, but everybody needs some help sometimes, hence AAD.

BIG THANKS
BM

[Mehim]

It`s a long read but my diary shows my fight from 2012. Every card is now statute barred including one that was enforceable. Just follow the advice and you can win