Cabot

[odetter]

On behalf of my wife, I need some advice. All has been quiet on the unenforceable front, however, an ex Lloyds credit card now sold to Cabot has started to cause us real hassle. Despite us being told not to contact them, they have been telephoning and texting each week. I have sent the AAD letter regarding harrassment, but they are ignoring this. In June 2018 they sent what they claimed was a true copy of the agreement. However, the documents sent were a copy of the agreement, terms and conditions without any signature on it. they are now claiming they do not need an original agreement and they are now threatening "potential legal action" giving 2 weeks for a response. We are seeking advice as to what our next response should be. Should we take this threat from Cabot seriously? should I send an LBA or should i take legal advice? The amount owed is approximately £1400. Can I ask the forum their advice please?

[Roger]

On behalf of my wife, I need some advice. All has been quiet on the unenforceable front, however, an ex Lloyds credit card now sold to Cabot has started to cause us real hassle. Despite us being told not to contact them, they have been telephoning and texting each week. I have sent the AAD letter regarding harrassment, but they are ignoring this. In June 2018 they sent what they claimed was a true copy of the agreement. However, the documents sent were a copy of the agreement, terms and conditions without any signature on it. they are now claiming they do not need an original agreement and they are now threatening "potential legal action" giving 2 weeks for a response. We are seeking advice as to what our next response should be. Should we take this threat from Cabot seriously? should I send an LBA or should i take legal advice? The amount owed is approximately £1400. Can I ask the forum their advice please?

Do you have this set out in a Diary format anywhere?
If not please start a Diary with as much information as possible.
It isn't possible safely advise without some back ground.
1/ Have you sent a copy of their Agreement to Niddy? if Not do this now (Nobody else but Niddy will see this so don't redact anything). webmaster@all-about-debt.co.uk

2/ Diary format

please provide the following information for each account:

• Type of account (credit card/loan)
• Date commenced (ideally before Apr 2007)
• Approx balance
• Date last paid (approximate date you last made a FULL payment)
• Are you on arrangement or not paying
• Status (default/in arrears/up-to-date)
• Account owner (who is writing to you, a DCA or the lender)

With Cabot look at their Notice Of Assignment who or what Company is named as the Current Creditor?

[Still Waving]

Hi

First step - email the copy agreement to Niddy webmaster@all-about-debt.co.uk for an opinion regarding enforceability, don't blank anything out, and include a link to this thread in the email.

Secondly post up a history of this debt, including who - precisely - is shown as the current creditor. This can be particularly important as this a 'Cabot'. Until you give more detail about this account it is not possible to give pertinent advice. I would say, though, not to respond to Cabot before you have some advice from the experts here.

(EDIT - Doh! Roger sneaked in while I was typing. )

[Joanna Connolly Solicitors]

I've looked back at your previous posts/threads on this forum and it seems that you/your wife sent s 77-79 CCA Requests to all your creditors in November 2013 and then you left your DMP.

If that is the case (correct me if I've misunderstood the situation) and you haven't made any payments since leaving your DMP then it's possible that this debt may become Statute Barred next year.

This means you need to tread carefully.

Post up the full history of this account and we'll take it from there.

Di

[odetter]

Dear Diana

thank you for your prompt response. You are correct as to the history of this debt. Diary format:-

1. This was a Lloyds credit card.
2. Date commenced some time in 2006
3. Balance outstanding £1400
4 . Last payment in November 2013 through Payplan
5. No further payments made
6. status default
7 . Current owner of debt - Cabot

They are currently threatening to send out court papers within the next 2 weeks so we are unsure as to the best response. We have emailed the "agreement" to Niddy for his opinion as to the status of this debt. It would be nice to get this debt statute barred ultimately however we would want to avoid a ccj situation

regards
Odetter

[odetter]

Thanks everyone for taking the time to respond! I’ve followed everyone’s advice on this forum previously and it’s always spot on! Cabot have been the only ones so far who are being awkward!

[Roger]

I've looked back at your previous posts/threads on this forum and it seems that you/your wife sent s 77-79 CCA Requests to all your creditors in November 2013 and then you left your DMP.
If that is the case (correct me if I've misunderstood the situation) and you haven't made any payments since leaving your DMP then it's possible that this debt may become Statute Barred next year.
This means you need to tread carefully.
Post up the full history of this account and we'll take it from there.
Di

Now you will need to do some digging and searching here into your documents and filing.

1/ You will need a GDPR SAR on Lloyds, Also on the DMP Payplan

S 77/78 CCA is for Information purposes NOT Proof Purposes

2/ In 2013 was the CCA sent to Lloyds plus £1? Did you receive or NOT a CCA from Lloyds and if so did you send this to Niddy?

3/ Did Cabot (without being sent a CCA request plus £1 ?) send that Reconstituted CCA (which you need to send to Niddy.) without being sent a CCA Request plus £1?

4/ When was this Assigned to Cabot? In Cabot's letters which Company (within Cabot) are writing to you? On their letters do the show the Current Creditor? If so who is this?.

[odetter]

Dear Forum

A claim was issued against my wife on 17.12.2018. She acknowledged service on 31.12.2018. she put in a defence on 21.01.2019 and sent a CPR 31.14 request to the claimant's solicitor on 21.01.2019. They responded on 25.01.2019 I quote:-

"We would be grateful if you could confirm what documents you have in your possession or control relating to this matter to avoid duplication over document inspection. We will then take our client's instructions."

I have since heard nothing and have checked money claim on-line and there have been no updates.

What is the time limit within which I can apply to strike out their claim.

Your advice would be appreciated.

[Joanna Connolly Solicitors]

A claim was issued against my wife on 17.12.2018. She acknowledged service on 31.12.2018. she put in a defence on 21.01.2019 and sent a CPR 31.14 request to the claimant's solicitor on 21.01.2019. They responded on 25.01.2019 I quote:-

"We would be grateful if you could confirm what documents you have in your possession or control relating to this matter to avoid duplication over document inspection. We will then take our client's instructions."

I have since heard nothing and have checked money claim on-line and there have been no updates.

What is the time limit within which I can apply to strike out their claim.

The answer to that depends on what documents you have asked Cabot to produce and the likelihood of them being able to produce them.

A strike-out application carries a risk with costs consequences.

If the claim is currently stayed at NCCBC then the Application would be transferred to your local county court to be listed for a Hearing. This takes time (weeks) so if the Claimant produces the documents during that period, or documents which they say are appropriate, then you may have a problem.

What documents did you ask for in your CPR 31.14 Request? You can only ask for disclosure of documents actually mentioned in the Particulars of Claim, not just referred to. For example if the POC say "a Default Notice was served" then you can ask for that. If they say "the account was defaulted" then you can't ask for the Default Notice.

Di

[Joanna Connolly Solicitors]

Dear Diana

thank you for your prompt response. You are correct as to the history of this debt. Diary format:-

1. This was a Lloyds credit card.
2. Date commenced some time in 2006
3. Balance outstanding £1400
4 . Last payment in November 2013 through Payplan
5. No further payments made
6. status default
7 . Current owner of debt - Cabot

They are currently threatening to send out court papers within the next 2 weeks so we are unsure as to the best response. We have emailed the "agreement" to Niddy for his opinion as to the status of this debt.

Is it this debt in post # 5 on your thread?

If so what did Niddy say about the enforcebility of the credit agreement Cabot sent in response to your s 77-79 CCA Request?

What legal arguments did you plead in your Defence or did you file and serve a template Defence off an internet forum?

What did the Particulars of Claim state, and what documents did you ask for in your CPR 31.14 Request?

DJs can be reluctant to strike out a Claim in the first instance. An 'Unless Order' may be more appropriate. This is when you ask the court to Order the Claimant to produce documents by a specific date/number of days or the claim will be struck out.

Is the Claimant Cabot Financial Ltd or Cabot Financial (UK) Ltd which is not currently authorised by the FCA?

There could be assignment issues too, but without seeing the claim form and your Defence it's hard to speculate on the way forward.

Are Mortimer Clarke the solicitors acting for Cabot or another firm?

Di

[odetter]

Thank you for your prompt response. My wife’s defence stated that they didn’t have a properly constituted credit agreement. They only supplied a reconstituted agreement with incorrect information on it. This old account has been sold on on numerous occasions and no-one has been able to provide a satisfactory agreement. In your opinion what would be the likely course of events.

[Joanna Connolly Solicitors]

My wife’s defence stated that they didn’t have a properly constituted credit agreement. They only supplied a reconstituted agreement with incorrect information on it. This old account has been sold on on numerous occasions and no-one has been able to provide a satisfactory agreement.

From what you say that would be a "triable issue" meaning only a DJ can rule whether the credit agreement is compliant with various sections of the Consumer Credit Act. This would be decided at a full Hearing giving both sides the opportunity to put forward their case with Witness Statements including Exhibits of evidence, Skeleton arguments etc.

S78-79 CCA is for 'information purposes' not 'proof purposes' so the debt owner can send you 'something' to satisfy s77-79 CCA, but that 'something' may not comply with other sections of the Act.

That's different from asking a DJ to strike out a claim on the basis of the Claimant not producing documents in your CPR 31.14 Request, or ordering them to be produced with sanctions if they don't.

Did your wife plead anything else such as potential assignment issues?

Has this account been sold (assigned) to numerous debt purchasers, or do you mean that there have been various Debt Collection Agencies pursuing the debt as the agent for the original creditor (Lloyds?) and the subsequent debt purchaser (Cabot)?

Di

[odetter]

Dear Diana

Thank you again for your response. The DCA is Cabot Financial (Europe) Limited and Mortimer Clarke are their solicitors. I did submit the agreement that they sent to Niddy however I didn't receive a response.

My defence is based on the legitimacy of the documents of the CCA request. It was a reconstituted agreement.

Cabot are the current assignees Having been previously sold on by BLS Collections, Wescot, Capquest and Robinson Way none of which were able to provide me with a valid agreement.

Firstly, the particulars of claim were short and as follows:-

By an agreement between Lloyds Bank and the Defendant on or around 14/02/2003 ("the Agreement") Lloyds Bank agreed to issue the Defendant with a credit card. The Defendant failed to make the minimum payments due and the Agreement was terminated. The Agreement was assigned to the Claimant. The Claimant therefore claims £***** and costs.

In the CPR 31.14 I asked for

1. The agreement and any associated Ts&Cs applicable to the account
2. The Notice of Assignment
3. The Termination Notice
4. The Default Notice
5. Any other documents mentioned in the Particulars of Claim.

In their reply Mortimer Clarke believe I may have inspected the above documents because in various dates in the past they would have been sent to me by another party. These were not sent to me and then other parties sold on the "debt".

I therefore requested these from the current assignee who it would seem don't have any documentation other than Lloyds Bank's standard terms and conditions.

Thanks
Mrs Odetter

[Joanna Connolly Solicitors]

he DCA is Cabot Financial (Europe) Limited and Mortimer Clarke are their solicitors. I did submit the agreement that they sent to Niddy however I didn't receive a response.

. . . . Firstly, the particulars of claim were short and as follows:-

By an agreement between Lloyds Bank and the Defendant on or around 14/02/2003 ("the Agreement") Lloyds Bank agreed to issue the Defendant with a credit card. The Defendant failed to make the minimum payments due and the Agreement was terminated. The Agreement was assigned to the Claimant. The Claimant therefore claims £***** and costs.

In the CPR 31.14 I asked for

1. The agreement and any associated Ts&Cs applicable to the account
2. The Notice of Assignment
3. The Termination Notice
4. The Default Notice
5. Any other documents mentioned in the Particulars of Claim.

In their reply Mortimer Clarke believe I may have inspected the above documents because in various dates in the past they would have been sent to me by another party.

I therefore requested these from the current assignee who it would seem don't have any documentation other than Lloyds Bank's standard terms and conditions

Check the actual name of the Claimant on the Claim Form, not the business who's writing to you. Are you sure it's Cabot Financial (Europe) Ltd on the court form (top left)?

Re-send the credit agreement to Niddy to get his opinion. Use webmaster@all-about-debt.co.uk and put your username in the subject bar, and a link to this thread in the body of the email so it doesn't go astray this time.

The only document mentioned in the POC is "the agreement" so that is all you could ask the court to Order them to produce for you to inspect. However you say they have sent what they believe to be the agreement which is something you'd have to argue in court (at the final Hearing) if it gets that far.

Anyway the claim is currently stayed so you have time to think things through. If Cabot want to continue with the proceedings they'll have to make an Application to the court to lift the stay which requires them to pay a fee.

You're playing poker with them at the moment

Di

[nanna58]

Good luck xx