Lovemoney UE Diary

[Never-In-Doubt]

Re: Lovemoney UE Diary

Please advise what should I do...

That's clever - you do realise those numpties have effectively contradicted themselves, don't you?

First of all, they made the absurd claim that s74A did not apply to accounts opened before that section passed into law and that the overdraft was not a regulated agreement, then they claimed that the bank had complied with s74B which means the overdraft was a regulated agreement.

And that's along the lines of the reply I would send back.... Thanks Cloggy

Dear Sirs,

Ref: xxxxxxxx

I write with reference to your rather confusing and contradictory letter dated xx/xx/xxxx.

You have made the absurd claim that s.74A did not apply to accounts opened before that section passed into law and that the overdraft was not a regulated agreement, then you claim that the bank had complied with s.74B which means the overdraft was a regulated agreement after all.

Would you care to provide the information requested, before I consider referring this to the regulatory bodies for investigation into your conduct and misleading manner.

Yours faithfully,


Sign Digitally

[gravytrain]

Re: Lovemoney UE Diary

My take on this is that section 74a does not apply to agreements made before the EU inception date, it cannot because they would have to travel back in time to the execution of the current account and include overdraft information.

All overdrafts are regulated(always have been), it is just that they were exempt form part V of the act, so no written agreement had to be made prior to the EU regulations coming into force.

74b becomes active if an existing overdraft arrangement is breached so it does not matter when the agreement was made.

[The Tech Clerk]

Re: Lovemoney UE Diary

Interesting!

[CleverClogs (RIP)]

Re: Lovemoney UE Diary

My take on this is that section 74a does not apply to agreements made before the EU inception date, it cannot because they would have to travel back in time to the execution of the current account and include overdraft information.

Whilst I would be inclined to agree with you on subsection 2:

(2) The current account agreement must include the following information at the time it is made—

(a)the rate of interest charged on the amount by which an account-holder overdraws on the current account or exceeds the pre-arranged overdraft limit,
(b)any conditions applicable to that rate,
(c)any reference rate on which that rate is based,
(d)information on any changes to the rate of interest (including the periods that the rate applies and any conditions or procedure applicable to changing that rate), and
(e)any other charges payable by the debtor under the agreement (and the conditions under which those charges may be varied).

... there still remains the requirement of subsection 3:

(3) The account-holder must be informed in writing at least annually of the information in subsection (2).

Does that only apply to new accounts?

Why should new customers be kept informed whilst established customers are not?

A sensible way to implement the law would have been for the banks to send all existing customers the information prescribed by s74(2) on 30th April 2010 or as soon as possible thereafter.

[Lovemoney]

Re: Lovemoney UE Diary

Many thanks for all the comments & support here.
Especially ELSA help me look into this a/c (#546).....

Dear Sirs,

Ref: xxxxxxxx

I write with reference to your rather confusing and contradictory letter dated xx/xx/xxxx.

You have made the absurd claim that s.74A did not apply to accounts opened before that section passed into law and that the overdraft was not a regulated agreement, then you claim that the bank had complied with s.74B which means the overdraft was a regulated agreement after all.

Would you care to provide the information requested, before I consider referring this to the regulatory bodies for investigation into your conduct and misleading manner.

Yours faithfully,


Sign Digitally

Niddy thanks for the above letter, will do that.

UPDATE...
2/1/13
Letter from Crapot received today (4/1/13).
Your outstanding debt
According to our records you currently owe £xxxx even though we have made repeated attempts to obtain yr commitment to repay this debt. It's now vital that you contact us urgently to discuss yr a/c.
If we don't hear from you
I you don't contact us to agree a suitable repayment plan we will have to move yr a/c to the next stage of our collections process.
Contactihng Cabot
The most important thing for you to do now is to get in touch with us urgently, to prevent further action being taken. Call XXXXXXXX & one of our helpful customer advisors will discuss the options for repaying yr a/c. Our aim is to help customer get their a/cs cleared-so contact us now.


On my diary #456, one of the ex-Mod advice if they are not sending me threat-o-grams & I am going to pay them, probably best not to upset the apple cart. So I'm paying Crapot £1 by standing order since 27/10/12. Does it make the argurment worse?

[gravytrain]

Re: Lovemoney UE Diary

Section 74a refers to un pre-arranged overdrafts, so I believe the new requirements of section 61b do not apply, however I agree that once the offer of an overdraft which is unauthorized but allowed on the account(tacit agreement) is taken up, the creditor should send information under section 74 a(3).

BIS guide

17.41 N
ew section 74A sets out the information which must be provided where a current account agreement allows the possibility of overdrafts which are not pre-arranged56. The current account agreement must include the information specified in section 74A(2), including the rate of interest and any charges applicable to such overdrawing, and the conditions under which these may be varied. Section 74A(3) requires the creditor to notify the specified information to the account-holder at least annually, in writing57, except in the case of overdrafts secured on land

[gravytrain]

Re: Lovemoney UE Diary

I think though that if an account is overdrawn in breach of the agreement, then all they need send is a section 74b.

Could be wrong of course

[gravytrain]

Re: Lovemoney UE Diary

just having a look at the letter they sent. These usually adopt a convenient way to interpret legislation.

When the regulation states that there must be an overdraft and that this becomes a regulated agreement, it is not saying that the debtor must be advised that this is now regulated, nowhere does it say that.

These are qualifying conditions which must be fulfilled if section 74a is to apply.

In other words it must be an overdraft and it must be a regulated agreement, (ie not exempt.)

All overdrafts become regulated agreements if they are allowed to run, unless the meet the criteria of section 16, in which case they are exempt.

[gravytrain]

Re: Lovemoney UE Diary

Sorry completely misread the regulations, should have had another hour in bed this morning.

[gravytrain]

Re: Lovemoney UE Diary

This is the bit I was looking for

3.11 New section 74A of the CCA applies to current account agreements where a borrower may be allowed to overdraw without a pre-arranged overdraft. These requirements will apply where a borrower overdraws on or after 1 February 2011. The information that has to be provided at the time a current account agreement is entered into should therefore be provided when any new current account is entered into on or after 1 February 2011. The requirement to provide information annually should be complied with from 1 February 2011 for all current account agreements whether they are entered into before, on or after the 1 February 2011. For existing agreements, this means that annually

[Lovemoney]

Re: Lovemoney UE Diary

CAPITAL ONE (CREDIT CARD)

ACCOUNT SOLD TO DCA: CAPQUEST & FREDRICKSON INT.
HUSBANDS
26/3/2012
cca request sent. (Direct from Capital One)
6/4/2012
received a reconstituted copy of original Credit Agreement (cover letter dated 6/4/2012) Emailed Niddy
30/4/2012
Niddy confirmed MPT letter sent. (#151)
15/5/2012
received reply from Capital One saying previously provided with a copy of yr defaulted t&c and a reconstituted copy of orginal agreement, together with a scanned copy of signature page of original agreement with a statement. We have fully complied with the requirements of S78 of the CCA. You have failed to state why you allege that the Agreement is improperly executed pursuant to Section 61(1). The Agreement was properly executed pursuant to Section 61(1):
a) in the prescribed form and contains all the prescribed terms, conforms to the regulations under Section 60(1) of the Act and has been signed in the prescribed manner by the Claimant & Defendant.
b) embodies all the terms of the agreement, other than implied terms; and
c) when presented to the debtor was in such a state that all its terms were readily legible........
Review of the full agreement will no doubt agree contains all the prescribed terms and therefore fully enforceable.
23/5/2012
received HL LEGAL SOLICITORS letter (dated 19/5/12) TAKE NOTICE that if you fail to repay the arrears on the arrangements you have made of £2.00 by 28/5/12 Court proceedings may be issued against you for £10052.71 plus further costs that will be added. Furthermore, if you commence payments and fail in your commitments in future without good cause or reason, further action may commence without further notice.
29/5/2012 Balance £10052.71
received letter from Capquest further to yr recent communication we can confirm acceptance of this as follow: Instalment Amount £1 payment to be received by 27 Jun 12 failure to comply with the above will make the full balance become immediately payable and may then be liable for legal action, which if successful would increase yr liability to £10277.71. Due to low repayment amount able to offer the following settlement figure....settlement offer 71% of the balance outstanding = £7137.42 must be received by 4/6/12.
28/6/2012 Balance £10052.71
received letter from Capquest prior to the start of legal proceedings various checks & validations are undertaken to establish facts around yr current circumstances. There are outstanding CCJ's registered against you are in excess of three yrs old & this is the reason corresponding with you & highlighting this as a matter of urgency indicates to us that you may be attempting to repair yr credit file. If we were to start the legal process & Judgment is awarded it will remain on your credit file for 6 yrs could have a damaging affect on yr ability to obtain credit now & future like simple credit agreement such as mobile phone contract blah blah.... We are not seeking an immediate payment in full; can offer many repayment methods that can be designed around yr current circumstances which may include possible settlements that will save you money, do contact on XXXXXXX before 7/7/12. (Ref #299 & #301).
12/7/2012
received letter from Capquest with regret you have chosen not to deal with this matter despite previous communication. In an attempt to assist you in clearing your indebtedness we would like to offer you the opportunity of making a final payment of £7137.43 within yourinterest to contact this office by 25/7/12, Failure to contact this office by the stipulated date will mean that your a/c will be progressed through our pre-litigation system, then be passed to our solicitors for legal action on or about. Should the litigation process be instigated & a judgment is granted we would seek an Order of the Court successful & it is necessary to enforce such a Warrant of Execution, a Court Enforcement Officer (Bailiff) will be assigned to attend yr address & carry out the Warrant. The Bailiff will take an inventory & may levy goods & you will be asked to sign a Walking Possession Agreement means the goods that have been seized can be removed authorised for sale to pay the debt & cost. All of this action is avoidable, your interest to prevent the course of action by contacting us immediately, failure to respondby the date outlined may result in legal action being instigated.
16/7/2012
Threat by Creditor - Threat-o-Gram Letter Before Action sent(refer #323 & #326).
28/7/2012
received reply from Capquest in response to yr recent letter the contents of which have been noted. Unfortunately unable to comment on the dispute you have raised as this was prior to our involvement & at the time the a/c was passed to us we were unaware of any existing query. Therefore we are closing the a/c on our system.(#369)
9/8/2012
received A letter from FREDRICKSON INTERNATIONAL LTD...have been instructed by Capital One who have passed this a/c to us for collection of the outstanding balance. As we have been appointed as thier agent you should now make sure you contact and not Capital One. We are authorised to contact you to secure repayment of the debt. You have failed to pay the balance of £10052.71 which remains outstanding despite previous repeated requests for payment. Our client now requires payment in full to avoid further action. YOU MUST CONTACT INNEDIATELY to discuss the matter further. For your convenience payment can be accepted by debit card, credit card or cheque.
13/8/2012
Account Sold whilst in Dispute template sent.
23/8/2012
reply received from FREDRICKSON INTERNATIONAL LTD...have referred the matter to our client & will revert to you as soon as we are in receipt of instructions. In the meantime, we confirm that we have placed the account on hold. *IGNORED*
30/8/2012
Letter from FREDRICKSON INTERNATIONAL LTD received today(1/9/12). We have taken our client's instructions relatng to the contents of your letter & they have advised that they responded to yr request for documents under section 77-79 the CCA 1974 on the 5/4/12. Our client has advised that if yr would like to request these documents again then this should be made to our client directly with the statutory fee. In the meantime, we confirm we have placed yr client's a/c on hold for 14 days & look forward to hearing from you with yr payment proposals. (see what they do next #412)
14/9/2012
Letter from FREDRICKSON INTERNATIONAL LTD received today(17/9/12). LETTER BEFORE ACTION...this debt must be paid in full to these offices within the next 7days otherwise we will take immediate actionl. Remains a balance outstanding on this a/c & legal action is now being considered. Should it be necessary to issue proceedings in the County Court (or Sheriff Court as may be appropriate), further additional costs will be added. If a Judgement or Decree is obtained & remains unsatisfied a bailiff or sheriff officer may be instructed to recover assets to discharge the outstanding debt. Judgment debts are registered by the Court, against you would seriously affect yr ability to obtain credit in the future. Payment can be accepted by xxxx or xxxx. *IGNORE & SEE WHAT THEY DO NEXT #437*
20/9/2012
Yellow card from FREDRICKSON INTERNATIONAL LTD received today(24/9/12). CONFIRMED RESIDENT...This a/c is seriously in arrears & you have failed to reply to correspondence or make a payment arrangement despite trace enquiries showing you as living at this address. Contact us now on XXXXXX to arrange a payment or yr a/c will be passed to solicitors with authorisation to proceed with immediate litigation proceedings against you at the above address.
24/9/2012
Threat by Creditor - Threat-o-Gram Letter Before Action (Refer#450)sent.
4/10/12
2 letters in 1 envelope from FREDRICKSON INTERNATIONAL LTD received today(8/10/12).
Letter 1 (dated 4/10/12) Thanks you for yr communication regarding this a/c. We have referred the matter to our client & will revert to you as soon as we are in receipt of instructions.
Letter 2 (dated 5/10/12) Write in response to yr recent letter. We have taken our client's instructions & they have advised us that they wrote to you on 15/5/12 confirming that they have complied with their obligation under s78 to provide you with a copy of the executed agreement & further advised you that no further correspondence in relation to the provision of the copy agreement will be entered into. Hope this clarifies the matter & we look forward to receiving proposals of payment to discharge outstanding balance within the next 7 days failing which further action may commence.
12/10/12
Final Response - Unenforceable (General) sent (by recorded). *Refer #459
27/10/12
Letter received from FREDRICKSON INTERNATIONAL LTD... just contact us about the above a/c (lost the letter accidently bin it).
5/11/12 BALANCE £10052.71
Letter received (6/11/12) from Bryan Carter Solicitors (same address with Fredrickson). We write with regard to this outstanding debt. Payment must be made in full within the next 14 days failing which we will recommend to our client that proceedings be issued without further notice. Should proceedings be issued, additional charges will be added to the existing balance...Outstanding Balance to pay now £10052.71+Interest £804.22+Court fee £190.00+Solicitor Costs £100.00=New Balance IF proceeding are issued £11146.93. If you dispute liability for this debt pls state yr reasons in writing & supply us with documents in support of yr defence to any claim. Before the a/c us referred to us to litigate you still have an opportunity to contact FREDRICKSON with yr payment proposals. In order to avoid further action you should tel them immediately on XXXXXXXXX. This is a serious matter & you may wish to seek independent legal advice. (Advice Refer #507)
12/11/12
Letter sent (allaboutFORUMS - View Single Post - Slickfm UE Diary [uploaded for Niddy to look & approved] by recorded)
16/11/12
Received letter (dated 14/11/12) from Bryan Carter Solicitors. Tnx for yr letter dated the 8/11/12, the content has been noted. We believe that our client has complied with the Pre-Action Protocol so far as it applies to this matter. In relation to yr request for documents, this a/c is regulated by consumer credit legislation. It is our client's policy to provide agreements to its customers at the point of contract & statements throughtout & therefore you have already been provided with validation of the debt. Our client confirms that they have fulfilled their obligations under section 78 of the CCA 1974 & the debt remains enforceable. For the avoidance of doubt however the monies due may be paid to us by direct debit, bank S/O, cash & etc... Pls see our notepaper for details of our address & tel no. You may contact us between XXXXXXX. We confirm that a list of organisations where independent advice could be obtainede was provided on the overleaf of our client's agent's notepaper. We look forward to hearing from you with yr payment proposals within 21 days. Pls note should we not hear from you by 5/12/12 collection activity may resume.
23/11/12
Unenforceability Templates | Repeated Threat by Creditor - Enough is Enough Response sent by recorded (26/11/12). *Refer #514
5/12/12
Received letter (dated 3/12/12) from FREDRICKSON. We thank you for yr communication regarding this a/c. We have referred the matter to our client & will revert to you as soon as we are in receipt of instructions. In the meantime, we confirm that we have placed the a/c on hold. *Refer #539 SEE WHAT THEY DO NEXT

UPDATE...
3/1/13
Letter from FREDRICKSON rerceived today (5/1/13). Despite a recent letter from Bryan Carter Solicitors you have failed to discharge yr debt with our client Capital 1. We are prepared to offer you one final opportunity to pay before recommending to our client that they instruct solicitors to issue a claim at XXXXXXX. At this stage4, and as a gesture of goodwill, we are prepared to accept a full & final settlement on this a/c provided that you contact us on XXXXXXX within 48hrs of receipt of this letter. Pls note that on settlement of a debtk whether fully or partially settled, the original payment history will remain on yr credit file. If there is a default registered on yr file & you pay a final settlement, the default will be amended to reflect that it has been partially settled & yr credit file will be improved. This information will remain on yr file for six yrs from the date the default was registered. Payment cam be made by debit or credit card.

Any advice will be appreciated.

[CleverClogs (RIP)]

Re: Lovemoney UE Diary

Perhaps they need to be reminded that their client is a bunch of inept jerks who'd have difficulty reconstituting dried, mashed potato let alone a consumer credit agreement?

[Pixie]

Re: Lovemoney UE Diary

Perhaps send Our Templates | Unenforceability Templates | Threat by Creditor - To Commence Litigation

[ScabHunter]

Re: Lovemoney UE Diary

I personally wouldn't be keen to send that letter Pixie has linked to, because it specifically mentions statutory demands issued under the Insolvency Rules, and at this stage there has been no mention of such demands, or threats to issue them. Don't give them ideas!

If it was me, I'd just send something like this -

"I am in receipt of your letter dated 3/1/13, in which you reference a "recent" letter from Bryan Carter Solicitors. Note that the latest letter I have received from that organisation is dated 14/11/12, and was responded to on 26/11/12.

I refer you to that response, and enclose a copy for your convenience."

Add a copy of the "Enough is Enough" response, because the previous one was sent to Carter.

The reference to Carter in this latest letter has been included purely as a frightener, because they have already backed down from legal action in the light of Paul's response (14/11 – full of facetious drivel, but in reality an admission that no compliant paperwork exists).

SH

[Pixie]

Re: Lovemoney UE Diary

I personally wouldn't be keen to send that letter Pixie has linked to, because it specifically mentions statutory demands issued under the Insolvency Rules, and at this stage there has been no mention of such demands, or threats to issue them. Don't give them ideas!

Does it? Where?

It mentions

several other recent cases that alleviate the Carey Judgment such as Hayes v HFC, at Blackpool county court in July 2010. She successfully overturned a charging order on her home. Judge Bell agreed that the reconstituted agreement was not accurate.

but I can't see anywhere that it mentions SD or Insolvency Rules