Credit taken in my name!

[DVardysShadow]

Re: Credit taken in my name!

But the criteria isn't whether or not he knew how to take out credit, it's whether he knew what taking it out meant.

Well of course he knew what it meant, that is why I explained earlier what the lender will argue against - the fact he knew how to intercept post; he knew to be sneaky etc - i.e. it all boils down (sorry for not spelling it out lol) to the fact he knew it was wrong. Ergo, he will be exempt from the laws that protect these vulnerable people....

I look at it this way. He obviously knows how to do wrong things. But that does not mean that he knows they are wrong.

Sorry, just saying I can see this from the lenders argument in that I know what they'll be saying in response to the claims.... point is, it was not a one off and it was such a diverse range - ie why did he do it to himself, his mum and brother? It doesn't make sense, he'd have known it was wrong - otherwise he'd have been found out long before it got this bad and maxed out - he'd also have hidden his gains, i.e. whatever he spent on the cards.

Listen i'm all for helping the lad out but I can see the fight that will come back, therefore it would be best to get specialist help - this will just make matters worse cos we're not privvy to full facts. ;Hmm

I too can see the Lender's arguments and they carry some weight. But equally, the disappearance of £30,000 with very little to show for it indicates a controlling mind behind it. No wish to be offensive, but if the outside influence argument is raised and gains traction, it will put OP and mother under the spotlight for sure.

Perhaps a visit to a criminal lawyer with brother in tow and advice from that quarter may put more legal perspective on it - eg the likelihood of making 'unfit to plead' stick - as part of considering whether to take the matter to the police. Along with other professional help

[Hannah]

Re: Credit taken in my name!

It has been done with the mind of someone that knew what they were doing; for instance taking the odd card etc can be easily fooled but with the tools in place now (that lenders use), including National Hunter, I am sorry but the guy must be a genious because his memory is phenonemal.

Er yes Nid.

Memory, mathematical ability and recollection of facts are all much simpler to an autistic person. Ever seen Rain Man? That's the only popular portrayal of an Autistic I can signpost you to (as flawed as it is). There is also a novel called The Curious Incident Of The Dog In The Night Time which is a brilliant insight into a higher-functioning Autistic persons thought processes. Speach and language difficulties are indicative of a heavier level of autism even than the character in Rain Man (who in the film has thier easy memory of fact exploited for someone elses financial gain as it happens) and certainly more autistic than the boy in the book I mentioned.

They DO have brilliant memories, a lot of the worlds top mathematicians are on the autistic spectrum, having a good recollection of fact doesn't suggest this lad is more capable, it in fact suggests he is more impaired. Between that and his other communication difficulties I would be fairly confident that this lad is totally incapable of independant living and is still in the same home as his Mum and brother, making intercepting the post very easy.

You can be a genius and still be learning disabled NID. Lots and lots of people are. Not just by autism, but by dyslexia or attention deficit disorder say. "Learning disabled" and "idiot" are not interchangable terms, Richard Branson, Albert Einstein and Leonardo Da Vinci being something of the proof of that.

That the brother is bright is not in any doubt, but nor should it be doubted that he is impaired and not able to understand the world in the same complexity as you or I. Out and out intelligence, or even recall, is not a measure of capacity to function.

[Never-In-Doubt]

Re: Credit taken in my name!

I think you're trying to lead the OP into a false illusion Hannah - I understand the elements of the consumer credit act and associated powers. I am simply saying that, speculation aside, the lenders will argue their case as I have above - put simply, it will take a specialist to prove otherwise and for the brother to win - however it is not by any means a quick fix and they may have to pay for independant tests (civil case remember).

You need to step back a little and stop being so defensive of this - I am sorry you feel the need to spell out autism to me, not that I need any any help thanks - i'm quite intelligent enough, but I am spelling out to you the legal implications which are by no means something to snigger at.

Ergo my point remains, I would go to the police and hope the lenders drop it as a gesture of goodwill as opposed to trying to play the legal game which will be expensive and by no way a guaranteed victory at the end of it - which could also be years down the line.

[Hannah]

Re: Credit taken in my name!

I'm not trying to mislead anyone as to any legal position at all Niddy. You should know better than to accuse me of that. I have never made any comment on where this case stands legally except to say I do not know. In fact if I have said anything at all regarding the law it, it has been concurrent with your own view; in your last post you are saying take it to the police, as was I in my second to last.

Given I have little knowledge of the CCA you will find I have made no comment on it. I have commented entirely from the point of view of an understanding of how an autistic person relates to thier surroundings. I therefore disagree that the brother can be reasonably assumed to be responsible for what has taken place. I also disagree with the inference that genius and impairment are mutually exclusive.

No one is sniggering at you and no one is trying to start game of oneupmanship. Nor is anyone doubting your intelligence. I merely disagree with you. I was rather on the understanding that forum rules allow for that?

[Never-In-Doubt]

Re: Credit taken in my name!

No one is sniggering at you and no one is trying to start game of oneupmanship. Nor is anyone doubting your intelligence. I merely disagree with you. I was rather on the understanding that forum rules allow for that?

Hannah, you misunderstand me.... its not my opinion, i'm advising the way the law works and what the likely outcome is. This is nothing to do with agreeing or disagreeing unfortunately, its the legal element which from the actions undertaken is clearly a civil case and for the brother or his family to defend any action, it could result in a lot of expense etc....

Of course, i'm saying seek professional help cos this is a nightmare situation - however I am realistic enough to understand that there is more to this than meets the eye - have you ever had £30k and tried to blow it? I have and it isn't that easy, let me tell you lol...

I'm not arguing with you, far from it and of course you can disagree with me - thats cool but i'm saying it isn't my opinion, i'm quoting the legal postion and as this is technically fraud - the lenders will look to bring action which means the family will have to defend or walk away - do you know how much strain, cost and hassle is involved in fighting banks? I do - plus I fought the CRA's at the same time - but it took me years, see my bio page here: ---> viewtopic.php?f=52&t=25 -- that was with a stranger, so you'd think easier to sort out when i'd went to the cops - nah, not that easy - basically I had to prove to the banks I wasn't the other person - I mean, WTF! How could I? It was impossible..... what a bloody nightmare!

And remember - I don't want to fall out with you, ok? So stop thinking i'm having a go - i'm not, really! ;K7

[rebelmonkey]

Re: Credit taken in my name!

Thanks for the advice.

I appreciate everyones point of view here. My brother is incapable of living independenly, and still lives at home. However and this is the stumbling point - he is incredibly good with computers. By this I mean that he can do things I cannot even compredend with them.

He was intercepting the mail and the phone calls from debt collection agencies. We took this behaviour to be part of his "special nature" and didn't imageine that he was doing anything like this.

However - my brother is still my brother no matter what he has done. I shall have to take on this debt and pay it off. My mother still has some moderate savings so shall pay of a portion of his debt in her name and he is due a compensation payout from where his hand was badly damaged which should possibly clear the rest. I think this is the only viable option - I am angry that it was so easy for credit to be taken in my name.

However I was working. The only sad thing is that I have worked 60/70 hour weeks all year to try and put myself in a position where I can go back to University and live a comfortable lifestyle. A large amount of my savings will be swallowed up with this. I am going about putting a block on my name for future credit. It also looks like my dreams of working hard and buying my own home with a mortgage are also now unrealistic, as my credit rating will be so massively damaged that I will never be able to get a mortgage.

I really do appreciate all of the opinions given here. They have persuaded that this is the only course of action which I can live with. Thankyou.

[Never-In-Doubt]

Re: Credit taken in my name!

I would not pay it back right now, speak to professional people as there may be a chance that it could be wiped - it does no harm to ask does it?

I feel bad now, but I was trying to explain the worse case scenario - at no point was I trying to say leave it, i'd definitely (10000000%) try and seek some professional guidance using the names mentioned within the other helpful posts...... serious, it can do no harm can it?

Please stay with us and keep us updated, no matter what path you decide to take......

[rebelmonkey]

Re: Credit taken in my name!

OK. I have been down to the CAB with my brother today. I was full and frank and explained the whole situation to a lady who was very kind. However I do have to say that I wasn't exactly impressed with her knowledge, good intentions aside I was aware more about the legalities of the situation than she was. I have made another appointment so that we can go through things properly with someone more qualified.

However ultimately the choice is quite clear. Either we (mother and I) decide to deal with this as a family or we open up the situation to the full force of the authorities. Worst case scenario has been outlines by NID - best case scenario that the debt will be written off. However, as a straight thinking person I cannot see option 2 coming into affect. Daniel (brother) knew what to do, he knew how to open accounts and access accounts, he knew how to hide this for 2 years and therefore he must have known that his actions were unacceptable.

Ultimately my experience with banking is such that even when my wallet was stolen and money was removed from the same student account (a few thousand spent via taken cash out of the ATM and also by spending at John Lewis). Ultimately I had to pay it all. I was ignored and told I was acting fraudulently... There is no way the same bank will act with any sort of humanity. I did trust my brother with my pin number and at times my card (ie here Dan put £600 in my account - I know this sounds moronic but I was trusting in a family member and also self employed meaning that it was sometimes impossible for me to get to a cash machine within acceptable time frames). I am sure that would mean that I was atleast partially responsible.

Thanks again.

[Ames]

Re: Credit taken in my name!

I'm not surprised that CAB weren't professional. I've used them a few times. The first time, they referred me to a solicitor, I followed her advice and got sued. The second time they talked me into arranging for money to come off my income support for a disputed council tax debt (not telling me that I couldn't cancel the arrangement only the council could, and ignoring that as it was in dispute I didn't have to pay anything) by telling me if I didn't I could go to prison. Then they told me I should go bankrupt, which was totally pointless given my situation - UE has worked much better! So I've usually found things get worse once CAB are involved. Not wanting to scare you, but to make you aware that you need to get advice from a range of agencies.

Giving your card details isn't moronic. I trusted my ex with mine and he cleared my account the week after my student loan had been paid. I went to the police but they said that because I'd given him the card and said 'here, take enough for food for a week' instead of 'here, take £30' it meant I'd given permission for him to take whatever he wanted.

Just thinking aloud here, I don't know too much about autism, but if you gave your brother access to your account is it possible that he thought that meant he was ok to open other accounts in your (and therefore your mum's) name? Maybe that it made the account joint? Or, if Hannah's correct, that it was something that an outside influence could have used to talk him into it?

As I said before, I'd speak to several different advisors, have you been in touch with MIND? DIAL might be able to help, at least to point you in the right direction.

I also think you need to take on board what Hannah said, that your brother might have been put up to it and manipulated by someone else, as 30k with nothing to show for it is pretty much impossible. And I doubt an autistic person would get a gambling addiction because of the maths involved, which would normally be my first thought at that situation.