Termination Notice V Default Notice

[caspar]

Re: Termination Notice V Default Notice

Probably not what you want to read, but I've found this, though NOT on Barclays site. The way I read it, they have not terminated on the strength of a default notice, but they can terminate the agreement at any time by giving notice. Overdrafts are exempt from Part 5 of the CCA 1974.

Termination Notice - Barclays Account.

In accordance with Sections 76(1) and 98(1) of the consumer credit act 1974. Basically 98(1) says in non-default cases they can terminate only after giving seven days notice - did you get this? 76(1) states they cannot enforce a term under the agreement without giving you 7 days notice. Sadly they can terminate whether or not you are in default as long as they give you this notice.

Important you should read this carefully.

It is a term of your agreement with the bank that the full amount outstanding on your account is repayable on demand at any time. Persuant to that term, the bank hereby terminates your agreement with effect from dd/mm/yyyy and makes demand for full and immediate repayment of the balance (£xx.xxDR) with effect from that date. In the meantime no further drawings on the account will be permitted.

[Never-In-Doubt]

Re: Termination Notice V Default Notice

I have finally had a response back from the ICO. They say the following.

You have complained that Barclays Bank plc has not responded to your request for a copy of your credit agreement under and section 78 of the Consumer Credit Act (CCA).

It may be helpful to explain that the Information Commissioner regulates and enforces the Data Protection Act 1998, amongst other legislation, but we have no involvement in regulating these section(s) of the CCA. The CCA is regulated by the Office of Fair Trading. As such, your complaint is not one that we can look into.

Any advice on what I can do next please?

Hiya, the ICO do not deal with CCA1974 related stuff, such as a s.78 request - they have this wrong! You need to ring and correct them and say no, you need a copy of the default notice or a screen print confirming one was sent (A Default Notice), prior to your taking enforcement action for removal as you believe no DN was ever issued, ergo the default showing on the CRA's is defunct and unlawful.

You are not entertaining the CCA route, correct them and get the case re-opened.

Regards to Caspar comments above, bear his comments in mind as he is correct - they can (and will) terminate an account) HOWEVER they must still issue a default notice or one cannot be lawfully registered against you (with the CRA's), now that is what splits the termination apart from the default itself, in that you need to know EXACTLY what they done (as part of the SAR) or you cannot confirm either way, whether barclays acted lawfully or not.

A lot of people forget that a default notice is an actual legal document and must be spot-on in both form and substance or it is classified as worthless rendering any associated debt extinguished. Try and explain this to the ICO so they re-investigate their refusal to comply. Ensure that they know you're not chasing anything to with s.77-s.79 of the CCA.

[Funkygibbon]

Re: Termination Notice V Default Notice

The account has been closed already. So I'm not bothered about that. It's the fact that the have placed a default against but not actually sent me a default or provided me with a default when I requested a SAR. I have a direct dial number for the officer. I will give her a call and explain that she hasn't read my request properly.

Thanks again for all your help!

[Funkygibbon]

Re: Termination Notice V Default Notice

I've got them to look into the case again!

They are now asking for:-
1) A copy of the original subject access request which you submitted to Barclays
2) If you feel that Barclays did not provide you with all of the information you had requested from them on 02/09/10, please provide us with a copy of your letter in which you raise this with them, and also provide us with a copy of their response.

The first one I should of sent already so can understand that. But I didn't do 2. I thought that an SAR was suppossed to return all of the information held. What's the point of saying 'you forgot to send evidence of my default notice'

Thanks

Funkygibbon.

[Never-In-Doubt]

Re: Termination Notice V Default Notice

I've got them to look into the case again!

They are now asking for:-
1) A copy of the original subject access request which you submitted to Barclays
2) If you feel that Barclays did not provide you with all of the information you had requested from them on 02/09/10, please provide us with a copy of your letter in which you raise this with them, and also provide us with a copy of their response.

The first one I should of sent already so can understand that. But I didn't do 2. I thought that an SAR was suppossed to return all of the information held. What's the point of saying 'you forgot to send evidence of my default notice'

Thanks

Funkygibbon.

It's generic so you'd simply send off the SAR and explain that they never complied as there are missing documents, in particular they have registered a default with the CRA's yet there is nothing in the few pages you received from within the SAR to suggest that one was issued so obviously something is not right. Barclays consider this their final response so the last resort is a complaint to the ICO and the FOS.

That's all you need to do

[Funkygibbon]

Re: Termination Notice V Default Notice

Cheers!

I'll send them the SAR letter I sent and then say what you have said!

Thanks for the help once again!!

[Funkygibbon]

Re: Termination Notice V Default Notice

Still not getting anywhere the ICO. Sent the information they requested and the note that you supplied, but they respond with the following.

In order to progress your case, it appears that we still require some additional supporting documents and would therefore ask you to provide us with the following:



1) A copy of the response you received from Barclays to your subject access request of 22/07/10
2) A copy of your letter to Barclays of 03/08/10 (which Barclays refer to in their letter to you of 02/09/10)
3) A copy of the response to your letter to Barclays of 03/08/10 and any additional correspondence which is relevant to your complaint
4) If you feel that Barclays did not provide you with all of the information you had requested from them on 02/09/10, please provide us with a copy of your letter in which you raise this with them, and also provide us with a copy of their response.


With point 4 being underlined in the email. This is what they also requested last time.

Should I send a letter to Barclays now asking them to provide the missing information? If not, what should I do? I should all the information for points 1-3.

Thanks again for the help!

Funkygibbon

[Never-In-Doubt]

Re: Termination Notice V Default Notice

Still not getting anywhere the ICO. Sent the information they requested and the note that you supplied, but they respond with the following.

In order to progress your case, it appears that we still require some additional supporting documents and would therefore ask you to provide us with the following:



1) A copy of the response you received from Barclays to your subject access request of 22/07/10
2) A copy of your letter to Barclays of 03/08/10 (which Barclays refer to in their letter to you of 02/09/10)
3) A copy of the response to your letter to Barclays of 03/08/10 and any additional correspondence which is relevant to your complaint
4) If you feel that Barclays did not provide you with all of the information you had requested from them on 02/09/10, please provide us with a copy of your letter in which you raise this with them, and also provide us with a copy of their response.


With point 4 being underlined in the email. This is what they also requested last time.

Should I send a letter to Barclays now asking them to provide the missing information? If not, what should I do? I should all the information for points 1-3.

Thanks again for the help!

Funkygibbon

Hiya, I'm confused! Can you clarify - that you do not have copies of any previous communication, as requested by the ICO? let me explain, you cannot just go to the ICO and complain - doesn't work like that.

You MUST first give the Data Controller (in this case Barclays) time to provide the information requested and if they do not, for whatever reason, then you simply send copies of everything PROVING that you're getting nowhere.

As you're trying to get Barclays to provide this data to allow you to complain to the ICO they are rightly wondering, why? ie you must have copies of letters that you refer to, if not - why?

Point here is, why can you not provide them the proof? If you wrote to Barclays and they responded - then you scan these and email them. That's what they want - proof of dealings so far - this is how you prove to the ICO that Barclays are not being compliant with the DPA (s.7)....

[Never-In-Doubt]

Re: Termination Notice V Default Notice

1) A copy of the response you received from Barclays to your subject access request of 22/07/10

When you requested the SAR in July, what did Barclays send back? You need to send a copy of this letter, for example did they write and say "we need a signature"?.....

2) A copy of your letter to Barclays of 03/08/10 (which Barclays refer to in their letter to you of 02/09/10)

You need to find both these letters, the one you wrote on 03 August and their response.

3) A copy of the response to your letter to Barclays of 03/08/10 and any additional correspondence which is relevant to your complaint

Did you get a reply to your letter to Barclays (dated 03 August) - if so they need to see the reply - this is the same as the point above, worded differently so confusing somewhat - basically it's in relation to their reply (if any).

4) If you feel that Barclays did not provide you with all of the information you had requested from them on 02/09/10, please provide us with a copy of your letter in which you raise this with them, and also provide us with a copy of their response.

They think that based on the letter dated 02 September - Barclays sent everything, if they never then clarify that - obviously I do not have copies of anything so am working blind here.

But basically, in plain English - you need to send a copy of all letters to Barclays and their replies - since you made the SAR request. You need to allow the ICO to act as though they are in your shoes; right now they are working blind.....

Whatever you do, do not confuse the SAR request with the error of the FOS complaint - keep that separate!

[Funkygibbon]

Re: Termination Notice V Default Notice

OK!
1) I've already sent the response to them. (I can send it again!)
2) Is a letter from Barclays saying that my request for an SAR is underway.
3) Therefor no letter exists. (Original SAR request letter.)
4) Barclays haven't sent the default notice which is what I am querying with the ICO.

I hope this makes sense!!

[Never-In-Doubt]

Re: Termination Notice V Default Notice

Ok reply to the ico explaining things in a lot more detail and what you need from them, ie sight of default notice or proof one was issued. It was missing from your lawful s7 request. Tell them more info than they need, spell things out and don't presume they know - they know nothing so tell them the whole story and what you done to get the info and barclays replies or lack of replies.

Do it and pm to me and I'll check it's what they want before sending it again.

[Funkygibbon]

Re: Termination Notice V Default Notice

I've sent you a PM (think I might have sent you more than one though sorry!!)

[Never-In-Doubt]

Re: Termination Notice V Default Notice

I've sent you a PM (think I might have sent you more than one though sorry!!)

So calling you a stalker would be inappropriate then?

[Never-In-Doubt]

Re: Termination Notice V Default Notice

I've sent you a PM (think I might have sent you more than one though sorry!!)

Ok, I have received your PM but still you're missing the point, you need to be writing a full blown explanation - for instance 10 lines aint gonna cut it - they'll send it back to you asking same old questions!

Spell everything out, what, why, where, who..........

Ideally create a timeline of events and then elaborate each point in extensive detail. Saying "I sent a SAR" does nothing, you need to be going along these lines (in great detail)

"On XX date I requested a SAR as I specifically need to check on the compliance and issuance of any default notice. I sent the letter recorded and they signed for it on XX Date. I then got a reply saying they'd be in touch again shortly, however that never materialised. I then sent another chaser asking for the info to which they never replied and here I am today. I am complaining about this to the ICO because it is clear that they have no intentions of furnishing me with the requested documents which do form part of my lawful s.7 request. I therefore request that you advise them, within your remit, to furnish me with all data about me. The lack of any default notice will have an undoubtedly adverse effect on them if they attempt to take action against a disputed account therefore the ICO intervention is paramount"

That is what I would be saying, as a bit - obviously that is based loosely on a silly example, if it was the real McCoy then i'd drag it out to at least 1 page of A4......

Make sense? best of luck