PRA

[Stevo62]

Great present on return from work - claim form from Northampton court. Right, better get ready for a ride

Good evening Blobby13,
with reference to PRA, maybe have a look at my diary, there's a fair amount to it but a lot of entries concern PRA, hopefully some of it will be helpful.

[Blobby13]

Good evening Blobby13,
with reference to PRA, maybe have a look at my diary, there's a fair amount to it but a lot of entries concern PRA, hopefully some of it will be helpful.

Thank you Stevo62. I’ve read your diaries with great interest. And then promptly went to check all the SAR paperwork we received from Lloyds. I don’t think Lloyds ever sent us a proper default notice, there’s not a copy of one in SAR. All we have is a general “you are now very late with your payments, but if you’ve already paid, please disregard this letter”. So, I think this debt is unenforceable, as there isn’t a valid default notice. Am I right?

[The Tech Clerk]

They can report that records show such a date one sent out and gets accepted?

[Still Waving]

Thank you Stevo62. I’ve read your diaries with great interest. And then promptly went to check all the SAR paperwork we received from Lloyds. I don’t think Lloyds ever sent us a proper default notice, there’s not a copy of one in SAR. All we have is a general “you are now very late with your payments, but if you’ve already paid, please disregard this letter”. So, I think this debt is unenforceable, as there isn’t a valid default notice. Am I right?

I'm not sure that they necessarily have an actual copy of a default notice, but a line saying eg - " (date) default notice issued".

[The Tech Clerk]

I'm not sure that they necessarily have an actual copy of a default notice, but a line saying eg - " (date) default notice issued".

That is it! seems all needed for most judges?

[Blobby13]

Ah, I see. Got all excited, as our default notice has none of the following (taken from Stepchange website):
A default notice has the following text at the top
in large or bold letters:
'Important you should read this carefully'
'Default notice served under section 87(1)
Consumer Credit Act 1974'
The default notice will also give you the following
information:
How much you need to pay to bring your
account back up to date
The deadline to make this payment - you
must get at least 14 days to do this

[Still Waving]

Ah, I see. Got all excited, as our default notice has none of the following (taken from Stepchange website):
A default notice has the following text at the top
in large or bold letters:
'Important you should read this carefully'
'Default notice served under section 87(1)
Consumer Credit Act 1974'
The default notice will also give you the following
information:
How much you need to pay to bring your
account back up to date
The deadline to make this payment - you
must get at least 14 days to do this

Did you keep all correspondence sent to you about your account? If so, do you have the original default notice? According to post #4, the default date was 20.10.2011 - Where did that info come from?

[Blobby13]

Did you keep all correspondence sent to you about your account? If so, do you have the original default notice? According to post #4, the default date was 20.10.2011 - Where did that info come from?

Unfortunately, we did not keep any correspondence. The information about default was taken from the paperwork sent to us by PRA in response to CCA request. This is also backed up by the information Lloyds provided in response to SAR request. In fact, there are two notices - one dated 19.08.2011 and the other one 20.10.2011. In fact, on closer inspection, it seems like both notices came together with credit card statement, and both mention that minimum payments have been missed and need to be made immediately. Interestingly, the default date on the court papers is 18/11/2011. But, neither PRA nor Lloyds have sent us anything to support this.

[Still Waving]

Unfortunately, we did not keep any correspondence. The information about default was taken from the paperwork sent to us by PRA in response to CCA request. This is also backed up by the information Lloyds provided in response to SAR request. In fact, there are two notices - one dated 19.08.2011 and the other one 20.10.2011. In fact, on closer inspection, it seems like both notices came together with credit card statement, and both mention that minimum payments have been missed and need to be made immediately. Interestingly, the default date on the court papers is 18/11/2011. But, neither PRA nor Lloyds have sent us anything to support this.

I believe that the Notice Of Sums In Default gives you 28 days to rectify (from memory - I haven't seen one in many a year) failing which, the account is defaulted. So, it looks like a NOSID was issued on 20/10/11, and the date the account was actually defaulted was 18/11/11.

[Still Waving]

Great present on return from work - claim form from Northampton court. Right, better get ready for a ride

You do know that you will need to acknowledge receipt of this within the prescribed timeframe? Also following that you have a timetable for submitting a defence. I note that the account is for £4k+. Is it your intention to get JCS to act on your behalf? If so you should contact them again now.

Don't be overthinking the detail of what notices you have or haven't been sent, yourself. You will need professional guidance from here forward if you intend to defend the claim.

[The Tech Clerk]

A default notice is a formal letter sent to you by a lender or creditor when you’re in arrears with your repayments to them. They are legally obliged to let you know in writing when you have missed payments.

If you’re in a credit agreement that’s regulated by the Consumer Credit Act 1974 (CCA 1974) and you default on your payments, your creditor must first issue a default notice before they can start legal action against you to recover the debt.

They do not have to send it Recorded Delivery, an entry that one has been sent has satisfied many DJs.

[The Tech Clerk]

The court commented that a deminimis error may be overlooked, but the substantial inaccuracyas in the case in question rendered the default notice ineffective.Source: Woodchester Lease Management Services Limited v Swain& Co, Court of Appeal, 14th July, 1998 (New Law Digest).Robin Griffith, Jim Wheaton, Alexandra Kamerling, CatherineChappell, Clifford Chance

shows very limited case for default notice and contents. (This just shows some errors in past) but as said before generally most DJs when recorded one sent accept as such. I found that out!

also:-

Goodinson v PRA Group (UK) Ltd case summary basically not reliable in many arguments (cases may differ due to content of alledged issued Default Notice).

[Roger]

Default Notices?
".. there are two notices - one dated 19.08.2011 and the other one 20.10.2011 .."
Well the presence of two raises questions doesn't it?

Let me explain with a default notice the Account
1/ If you rectify the default (pay) then the account remains open
2/ If you don't then this closed and the default amount set in stone. The debt becomes finalised as set out in the Default Notice.
You can't default after a default unless the default was rectified or the account was reopened. Because of course the Account has already been closed!

So a little homework here on your part could pay dividends.
You refer to the CC Statements these become very important evidence with two default notices!
Do you have copies of these?

I had a interesting Case where the account was closed in early years (because of in activity) the Lender just let me continue for a few years more!
There wasn't a default Notice just a closure BUT of course you CAN'T default a closed account unless you have evidence of its being formally reopened!

Just make notes for yourself and let JCS Act on your behalf.
A good Diary is always a good starting place and it occurs to me that there may be Assignment issues.
Also after the Banking crisis Lloyds and other Banks in that Group had issues.

[Still Waving]

Time for the proper lawyers.

[The Tech Clerk]

Contact:- Colin G Quinn