CCA true copy?

[Ksanderson]

We sent a CCA request regarding hubby’s credit card that he took out in 2005. The 12+2 days went by, as did a few months and he stopped paying. Yesterday they have sent us a letter.

They cannot locate the original, signed agreement. so they have sent a reconstituted copy. Now this copy does not have his correct name and address at the time of taking out the agreement, nor does it have the credit limit or interest rate. Am I right that this is not a true copy?

[Ksanderson]

Orignal Account - HSBC
Opened - 07/01/2005
Still with them
Date of last payment - January 2021
Balance - £6000
Not defaulted

CCA request was sent Sept 2020 with the £1.00

[The Tech Clerk]

HSBC as many may have not got it = there was the Iron Mountain 2006 storage fire, therefore probably not available, sending copies only good for later than 2007 PlanB

[Warwick65]

The fact the name and address are wrong is rather crucial and do not tell them. I assume HSBC still own the account.

Now while many argue the creditors need a signed agreement to enforce for pre 2006 agreements that is a bit of a simplification.

What you would need to show is that you can credibly say you did not sign a compliant agreement , for example it was merely an application form.

Credit card agreements need to have certain things but the credit limit is not one of them
i am afraid.

[Ksanderson]

What do we do now, as they are asking for payment again.

HSBC do still own the account, yes.

[Warwick65]

To add, if you are looking to go down the unenforceable route the account will have to be defaulted and hopefully sold on. In a be particularly relevant case, Arrow Global v Frost , AG won even without a signed agreement mainly because the judge did not believe Mrs Frost about how and when the account was opened. I also seem to remember the card had some unusual spending just before it defaulted so it looked suspicious as if it was a ploy to avoid the debt. Apparently Mr Frist gave evidence that contradicted his wife !

In other words be a credible witness . We all have reasons we are in debt and we don’t judge even if what I wrote above might sound that way- I’m on my phone so can’t fully expand

[Warwick65]

It depends how important your credit record is. If you don’t pay then you will damage your record.

What is needed for a cca request is different to what is needed to enforce. However what they have sent does not even fulfil your request as the name and address are wrong .

I can not tell you what to do, I imagine your file already has late payment markers . If your financial woes are likely to be temporary then I think the banks have a duty to be fair so talking to them might help. If they are likely to be long term, for now explain that and ask them to freeze all charges and interest.

[PlanB]

We sent a CCA request regarding hubby’s credit card that he took out in 2005. . . . . Yesterday they have sent us a letter.

They cannot locate the original, signed agreement. so they have sent a reconstituted copy. Now this copy does not have his correct name and address at the time of taking out the agreement, nor does it have the credit limit or interest rate. Am I right that this is not a true copy?

If the reconstituted credit agreement has got an incorrect name and address on it then common sense says it can't be a 'true' copy.

Is it a completely wrong/different name or a minor typo which could be corrected? Although that may not make a huge difference to things if they've got the address wrong too.

I'm going to suggest that you email the credit agreement to Niddy (Never-In-Doubt the forum owner) using webmaster@all-about-debt.co.uk .

Add a link to this thread so he can see what's been said so far. Also make him aware of the wrong name and address details because he won't know where your husband was living in 2005

Di

[Ksanderson]

Thank you for your help! I did as you advised and emailed it and got a reply.

”No it's no good lol. They've literally got a blank agreement and Imprinted a random address on it. It's not personalised nor does it satisfy Carey - weird being hsbc should know best in that regard! ”

[Warwick65]

Well in that case, as it stands they can not enforce. Your next message be would be to get it defaulted which will damage your credit file but is necessary to start the SB clock

[PlanB]

I did as you advised and emailed it and got a reply.

. . . They've literally got a blank agreement and Imprinted a random address on it. It's not personalised

You sent your CCA Request in September last year (2020) so they've had eight months to source what they need. Perhaps this attempt at a recon was done in desperation to convince you that they have the necessary paperwork, when they don't.

As has been said, don't let them know about the random address in case they try harder to find the right one.

When you stopped payments in January (2021) was that the minimum monthly contractual payment, or were you on a Arrangement to Pay or in a DMP etc? This is relevant as to when they should have defaulted the account.

Di

[Ksanderson]

The payment in Jan 2021 was a contractual payment. Not on a DMP or arrangement to pay. There is no default on the account as of yet, and we’re not expecting one until July 2021 as that’ll be 6 months of non payment.

They have also sent us a big bundle of paperwork of transactions, screenshots of their computer system stuff (which is how we managed to confirm the date the agreement was taken out). Looks more like a response to an SRA request (which we didn’t do). There was also a copy of an application form for PPI in there as well.