PRA Unenforceable

[MaisieB14]

Hi, this is my first post here and I'm hoping someone could share their experiences with PRA and offer advice.

This relates to an old Barclaycard for around £9k
They have confirmed it is currently deemed unenforceable
I offered £1k to settle - they said they would only settle for £8700
I am currently paying £10 per month so will never settle it in my lifetime

The reason I am still paying is that I don't want them to sell on and another debt collector log it on my file and start chasing

Has anyone been in this situation? I don't want to be paying them for the rest of my life!
Do they ever offer a settlement?

Thank you

[Joanna Connolly Solicitors]

I'm hoping someone could share their experiences with PRA and offer advice.

Hello. I'm happy to share my experience of PRA with you

However, first things first.

Have you sent a s77-79 CCA Request to PRA which is why they have advised you the debt is currently unenforceable if they were unable to comply?

You say it was "an old Barclaycard". How old (what year) and how did you open the account such as online, postal invitation, in branch etc?

When was it assigned to PRA, and did you receive a Notice of Assignment from both Barclaycard and PRA at the time?

£10 a month is not a lot, so the question is why is PRA happy to settle for that amount instead of accepting your F & F offer (was that offer made in writing headed "Without Prejudice")?

How was the £10 per month agreed, and who agreed it with them (were you in a DMP at any point)? Was it Barclaycard or PRA who agreed the amount?

I wouldn't worry about PRA selling the account to another debt purchaser because if it's unenforceable now then it will remain unenforceable until someone complies with your CCA Request (if you sent one).

A few more background details will be helpful.

Di

[m934xtc]

Hi Maisie i was in a debt manage plan for ten years ,i then thought how can i clear this it will go on forever.I then looked at forums etc and it twigged.
In 2017 i sent out CCA requests to all my creditors to see who had what.I also stopped paying them all.
With PRA they will not usually except a low offer.In my opinion you stop paying them and fight them head on.They will send you a LBC .Then a court claim.
Speak with Diana she will give you the best advise .My Claim with PRA was defeated with the help of Joanna Connolly Solicitors and I totally trust their knowledge in these matters .
Yours Richard

[MaisieB14]

Thank you for the replies, I have added more information below if you are able to help any further




Have you sent a s77-79 CCA Request to PRA which is why they have advised you the debt is currently unenforceable if they were unable to comply?

Yes this was sent back - in December 2018 they sent copies of statements and said it was currently unenforceable. Then in January 2019 they sent a reconstituted credit agreemnent and didnt say either way regarding whether it was unenforceable but asked me to contact them within 10 day - I did that and they said it was an error sending that letter and I just needed to keep paying and ignore the letter

You say it was "an old Barclaycard". How old (what year) and how did you open the account such as online, postal invitation, in branch etc?

Not as old as I originally thought - it was June 2016 - opened online, it was a balance transfer account through moneysupermarket

When was it assigned to PRA, and did you receive a Notice of Assignment from both Barclaycard and PRA at the time?

Transferred in September 2018 - notice received from both

£10 a month is not a lot, so the question is why is PRA happy to settle for that amount instead of accepting your F & F offer (was that offer made in writing headed "Without Prejudice")?

It was an offer made on the telephone

How was the £10 per month agreed, and who agreed it with them (were you in a DMP at any point)? Was it Barclaycard or PRA who agreed the amount?

I was originally in a DMP with StepChange but all my other creditors agreed to settle so I cancelled the DMP as I only had this debt remaining. I was originally paying £37 to Barclaycard but told PRA I couldn't afford what they were now chasing so they agreed £10 per month. I don't understand this as the debt is £9k so I will never pay it off!

I wouldn't worry about PRA selling the account to another debt purchaser because if it's unenforceable now then it will remain unenforceable until someone complies with your CCA Request (if you sent one).

A few more background details will be helpful.

They have also listed the default on my credit file with a different date to the Barclaycard one so I'm worried that it looks like it is two different debts

[The Tech Clerk]

did you send the CCA they sent to:- webmaster@all-about-debt.co.uk for checking? if not send CCA and refer to you thread her he will say enforceable or not ?

[MaisieB14]

Sorry I have only just seen this - sent over the scan this morning so I'm hoping for good news x

[Joanna Connolly Solicitors]

sent over the scan this morning so I'm hoping for good news

Post the verdict on your thread when you know.

Always remember that there are several reasons a debt can be unenforceable in court apart from the credit agreement, as PRA discovered when they took me to court and lost >

‘“RECONSTITUTED AGREEMENT” – IRREDEEMABLY UNENFORCEABLE”
“UNREDACTED DEEDS OF ASSIGNMENT – NO ASSIGMENT PROVED”


So, held Recorder Bellamy in PRA Group (UK) Limited v Mayhew at Central London County Court on 22nd March 2017, at the end of a 3 day multi track trial, when dismissing PRA’s claim against our client.


Stale debts sued for on the back of 2 ‘reconstituted’ MBNA credit card agreements (May 1999 and October 2000) were held irredeemably unenforceable under CCA 1974. The evidence of an honest witness was preferred to that of so called “reconstituted agreements”.


After 3 days of close forensic examination of, and legal argument about, evidence and documents from both PRA and MBNA stating that our client’s specific debt had been assigned, the court held that no assignment had been proved.


Efforts, over many months, in earlier cases to force PRA into disclosure of un-redacted deeds and deep and sustained forensic challenge to the provenance of documents needed to prove regulatory compliance, finally drew back the veil. The reality behind bulk debt purchasing was revealed.


This decision shows that just saying an agreement is enforceable and producing a “reconstituted” copy does not prove that it is enforceable. Just saying an agreement has been assigned and producing a notice saying it has been assigned does not prove legal assignment.


Debt purchasers need to provide proof. If that means the pitifully few pence in the pound they pay for stale debts will increase because banks will now have to start keeping original evidence complying with regulatory consumer protection measures, it is hard to imagine many tears being shed, outside the City of London.

(I've replied to your email )

Di

[Joanna Connolly Solicitors]

sent over the scan this morning so I'm hoping for good news x

Was it good news?

If you update your thread members will be able to suggest your next steps

(I’ve replied to your email.)

Di

[MaisieB14]

Hi Diana, Yes - with it just being a reconstituted agreement with no signature from myself it looks good. I'm just annoyed with myself that I've paid them for around 15 months after sending this!

[MaisieB14]

Hi, just an update on this and I wanted to see the experience others have had. I stopped paying PRA, haven't paid since May.

I've had no letters but I get a call daily, twice per day and they're not stopping. I thought they would write to me instead. I've not answered any of their calls.

Has anyone had this? where they don't receive a letter from them but constant calls? This has been going on for months now

Thank you

[Katsikaki]

Be prepared to hear from PRA A LOT. I consistently get 2-3 calls and voicemails per day and after not hearing from them in writing for a couple of months, they've just started again, the latest being court action if I don't pay up by September - which ironically is the same letter they sent me in March.

Time will tell I guess but they're definitely the most pushy of all the debt collectors I've dealt with.

Listen to Di, she'll keep you right

[Joanna Connolly Solicitors]

Be prepared to hear from PRA A LOT.

Time will tell I guess but they're definitely the most pushy of all the debt collectors I've dealt with.

Listen to Di, she'll keep you right

Thank you Katsikaki

PRA took me to court and lost so I've had first hand experience of this as Jo explains here >

‘“RECONSTITUTED AGREEMENT” – IRREDEEMABLY UNENFORCEABLE”
“UNREDACTED DEEDS OF ASSIGNMENT – NO ASSIGMENT PROVED”


So, held Recorder Bellamy in PRA Group (UK) Limited v Mayhew at Central London County Court on 22nd March 2017, at the end of a 3 day multi track trial, when dismissing PRA’s claim against our client.


Stale debts sued for on the back of 2 ‘reconstituted’ MBNA credit card agreements (May 1999 and October 2000) were held irredeemably unenforceable under CCA 1974. The evidence of an honest witness was preferred to that of so called “reconstituted agreements”.


After 3 days of close forensic examination of, and legal argument about, evidence and documents from both PRA and MBNA stating that our client’s specific debt had been assigned, the court held that no assignment had been proved.


Efforts, over many months, in earlier cases to force PRA into disclosure of un-redacted deeds and deep and sustained forensic challenge to the provenance of documents needed to prove regulatory compliance, finally drew back the veil. The reality behind bulk debt purchasing was revealed.


This decision shows that just saying an agreement is enforceable and producing a “reconstituted” copy does not prove that it is enforceable. Just saying an agreement has been assigned and producing a notice saying it has been assigned does not prove legal assignment.


Debt purchasers need to provide proof. If that means the pitifully few pence in the pound they pay for stale debts will increase because banks will now have to start keeping original evidence complying with regulatory consumer protection measures, it is hard to imagine many tears being shed, outside the City of London.

Di

[Joanna Connolly Solicitors]

I stopped paying PRA, haven't paid since May.

I've had no letters but I get a call daily, twice per day and they're not stopping. I thought they would write to me instead. I've not answered any of their calls.

Hello MaisieB14

Are you still getting constant calls from PRA or have they been writing to you since your last post?

They previously wrote and told you that this ex-Barclaycard debt was unenforceable which you knew anyway since Niddy had seen it, but that won't stop them from chasing you so update on your thread if they do.

Di