Stop Payments or offer Full and Final Payments

[Katsikaki]

So they have acknowledged receipt of your s77/78 CCA Request. Keep that letter safe.

They may have returned your postal order, but that doesn't alter the fact that you sent it to them in the first place

However it appears you sent your CCA Request to Wescot (a debt collection agency) and not the debt owner which is Halifax.

Di

Should I just send one off to Halifax too or let sleeping dogs lie?

Thanks

[Joanna Connolly Solicitors]

Should I just send one off to Halifax too or let sleeping dogs lie?

I'd wait to see what happens next before doing anything.

Di

[Katsikaki]

A quick update on CCA requests.


RBS Post #4 - Unable to get the information requested, account is on hold and unenforceable.

Mint (RBS) Post #5 - Unable to get the information requested, account is on hold and unenforceable.

Natwest (RBS) Post #6 - Still processing but unenforceable until we are able to reply to your request.

Halifax Credit Card Post #8 - Account has been put on hold while we look in to your request.

Shop Direct (Very) Post #11 - We have requested documentation but have not received it yet.

Barclaycard Post #7 - Reconstituted CCA received but Niddy deemed unenforceable.

Halifax Overdraft Post #12 - Sent CCA request and received letter stating that sections 77-78 of the Consumer Credit Card do not relate to this account as it is a current account.


All of these, apart from the last Halifax overdraft CCA request, were sent in May and I still have had nothing to prove that any of these accounts are enforceable. They are all currently being paid through StepChange, apart from the Shop Direct account, which has had no payments made to it in over 2 years.

Do I stop all of the payments without notification to these accounts until such time they can provide a valid CCA, or do I cancel payments and go in with a token (5%) full and final offer, just so the balance is no longer outstanding and closed on my credit file? Obviously they have had payments made to them, so becoming statute barred is out of the question.

Thanks

[nightwatch]

The choice is your's, as they are UE they have no way of enforcing through the courts,
They can and will ask for payment but you do not have to pay,
stop paying and put the money aside for any that may be enforcable to make a F&F further down the line,
if any are still with the original lender they will not do a small F&F, it is better to wait till they are all sold on to DCA's who will want to get some money back on what they have paid out, also while you are still paying, the owners of your account's will not be interested in a F&F as they are getting money from you every month,
If you stop paying you will get a barrage of call's( do not speak to them on the phone ) some letters and then things will calm down, just post on here and we can let you know what to expect next and point you in the direction of how to reply, or not.

Becoming SB is not out of the question, it just takes time and nerve.
when I first found AAD, I thought there was no way out of the mound of Sh1t we were in, I had battled for ages to rob Peter to pay Paul, find my diary to have a look.
It was just one shitty phone call from a DCA that put my back up and made me think, " who the chuff give's them the right to threaten me and my family, for not being able to pay them",
I found AAD and the rest is history.
That is why we are here, we have all had to start somewhere.
this could be your starting point,

what ever you decide we will be here to help and support you,

NW

[Joanna Connolly Solicitors]

Halifax Overdraft Post #12 - Sent CCA request and received letter stating that sections 77-78 of the Consumer Credit Card do not relate to this account as it is a current account.

Maybe Halifax are unaware of a recent court ruling which says the opposite

Jo explains the legal arguments in the judgment here >

The claim against our clients in this case was for monies owing under a personal Current Account Overdraft. We lost at first instance before a District Judge in Peterborough County Court and appealed the decision before HHJ Walden-Smith sitting at Cambridge County Court.

The Appeal was successful yesterday. This is an important case because it confirms that consumers using the unenforceability provisions of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 can successfully defend claims for personal Current Account Overdrafts in court. In this instant case the Appeal court found the personal Current Account Overdraft agreement to be unenforceable pursuant to the Consumer Credit Act because of lack of evidence of compliance with the requirements of the OFT determination.

It was also accepted that Creditors must comply with S 78 Consumer Credit Act 1974 requests relating to personal Current Account Overdrafts, not just credit cards and loans. In this case the Appeal court did find that MFS Portfolio Ltd had complied with the S 78 Consumer Credit Act request. If they hadn’t complied with the statutory request then the personal Current Account Overdraft would have been unenforceable pursuant to s.78 (6) (a) Consumer Credit Act , which is contrary to the position creditors normally take.

The court also positively approved of the principle established in a European case ruling we put before the court that it is for the creditor to prove statutory compliance. The court did not appeove of the District Judge’s earlier decision in the lower court that our client not recalling something somehow reversed the burden of proof onto our clients and away from the Claimant.

The appeal court also found that MFS Portfolio Ltd had not proved the Assignment to it from the original creditor.

Di

[Katsikaki]

The choice is your's, as they are UE they have no way of enforcing through the courts,
They can and will ask for payment but you do not have to pay,
stop paying and put the money aside for any that may be enforcable to make a F&F further down the line,
if any are still with the original lender they will not do a small F&F, it is better to wait till they are all sold on to DCA's who will want to get some money back on what they have paid out, also while you are still paying, the owners of your account's will not be interested in a F&F as they are getting money from you every month,
If you stop paying you will get a barrage of call's( do not speak to them on the phone ) some letters and then things will calm down, just post on here and we can let you know what to expect next and point you in the direction of how to reply, or not.

Becoming SB is not out of the question, it just takes time and nerve.
when I first found AAD, I thought there was no way out of the mound of Sh1t we were in, I had battled for ages to rob Peter to pay Paul, find my diary to have a look.
It was just one shitty phone call from a DCA that put my back up and made me think, " who the chuff give's them the right to threaten me and my family, for not being able to pay them",
I found AAD and the rest is history.
That is why we are here, we have all had to start somewhere.
this could be your starting point,

what ever you decide we will be here to help and support you,

NW

Thank you, nightwatch and Diana Mayhew for your kind and reassuring words.

Naturally, the thought of stopping payments is daunting to say the least. I spent the first few months when everything first collapsed feeling such a nervous mess and so depressed about my financial situation. I approached Stepchange just over 3 years ago, mainly due to fear and not fully understanding what was about to happen to me. They have been great in a lot of ways and took a lot of weight off at the time, but I feel I now need to take more control over my finances, otherwise I will be drip feeding these companies for another 6-7 years, at the rate I'm currently paying.

I have about £30k debt but this includes £6-7k on an agreement for my car, on which I intend to use the Voluntary Termination option in February/March next year, when it gets to the half way point.

Cabot have just offered me a third off my RBS (Post #4) debt, maybe as it's unenforceable and they can foresee issues arising with my payments towards it?

I think I will follow the route of stopping the unenforceable payments through Stepchange. Would you recommend that I notify Stepchange or simply place the balance with the particular creditors as £0, in case I need to add them back on at a later date? Also, would you suggest staying with Stepchange or going self managed, bearing in mind that I'm currently just over 3 years in to a DMP?

Thanks again

[nightwatch]

Stepchange do not recognise UE, you either pay all or none, they are funded by the financial industry, so will not look at unenforcability,

you can do it yourself (with help from us) you don't have to explain to SC why you are stopping payment, But, maybe tell them that you have decided to manage your affairs yourself and ask for a statement of your account with them.
this way you know what has been paid and what is still owing.Also who owns what account.

No need to let any of the owners of the accounts know what you are doing, they will find out when SC tell them they are no longer dealing with the account,
Put aside the money you have been paying out so you have a nest egg to fall back on,
expect a lot of phonecalls when they do find out. Please don't talk to them on the phone, tell them you wish everything to be in writing,
any that are UE can be ignored at the start, just post on here and we will look at what options you have.

if you are struggling with the payment's that are set and want to carry on paying, you can always reduce the payments, you just tell them that is all you can afford, But again post on here first to see if anyone knows a better idea,

NW

[Katsikaki]

Stepchange do not recognise UE, you either pay all or none, they are funded by the financial industry, so will not look at unenforcability,

you can do it yourself (with help from us) you don't have to explain to SC why you are stopping payment, But, maybe tell them that you have decided to manage your affairs yourself and ask for a statement of your account with them.
this way you know what has been paid and what is still owing.Also who owns what account.

No need to let any of the owners of the accounts know what you are doing, they will find out when SC tell them they are no longer dealing with the account,
Put aside the money you have been paying out so you have a nest egg to fall back on,
expect a lot of phonecalls when they do find out. Please don't talk to them on the phone, tell them you wish everything to be in writing,
any that are UE can be ignored at the start, just post on here and we will look at what options you have.

if you are struggling with the payment's that are set and want to carry on paying, you can always reduce the payments, you just tell them that is all you can afford, But again post on here first to see if anyone knows a better idea,

NW

I have a couple of credit agreements I need to run past Niddy but they look pretty enforceable, so that would leave me 3-4 out of 11 or so debts that are enforceable and I would be paying monthly. Aqua and Shop Direct seem to have both come up with the goods recently, but in fairness they were newer accounts, so I kind of expected that. Although Aqua still talk like they own the account, even though I have a letter detailing the sale of it to Lowell. Strange.

My only other reservation is the PRA Group. I've read how aggressive they can be and although Niddy has said their reconstituted agreement is unenforceable, I feel on edge about it.

[nightwatch]

the agreement is only for information, there are many otherways that PRA can fail ( and have) to make a claim.

Di knows them only too well.

you have back up with the knowledge of others on this site,
we have all been there done that, I have also written the book, taken the tour and am now thinking of doing the film.

We can't tell you what to do, but, we can help you in what you decide is your next step.

[Roger]

PRA can be and have been beaten!
This is your 2005 Barclaycard?
nightwatch points out S78 is for information purposes and Niddy has said UE. Its true only a judge can decide whether UE but AAD has a track record here with Niddy's CCA referral's have proven accurate.

The CCA 1974 Act isn't static Law it has changed over the years with Amendments etc.. So years can be significant.
Also Cases have also interpreted and decide on important issues sic that Overdrafts come under S78/77

In other words its always better to look at the current up todate position and legal tactics @Di knows this and the MODS advice tends to also be up todate.
AAD has helped me and many others take control of my Debts so you are in the right place.
nightwatch ".. We can't tell you what to do, but, we can help you in what you decide is your next step.."

[Katsikaki]

I've reduced the balances on the UE agreements to £0 with Stepchange and I'm now just working up the courage to email them and tell them I'm going self-managed for the rest. I need to send the latest agreements to Niddy for his perusal but I'm sure these are enforceable. I have no issues continuing payments for those that are enforceable but need to eventually wiggle myself in to a position for a F&F for those that are. Whether that means reducing payments to those creditors, I'd happily take advice on.

Roger - yes, PRA own the debt from my 2005 Barclaycard. It seems like a pretty haphazard reconstruction of an agreement to be honest. The way PRA worded the covering letter was that they had fulfilled my request for my agreement though.

[nightwatch]

Roger - yes, PRA own the debt from my 2005 Barclaycard. It seems like a pretty haphazard reconstruction of an agreement to be honest. The way PRA worded the covering letter was that they had fulfilled my request for my agreement though.

Yes they have fulfilled your request, but not supplied an enforceable agreement, Said Niddy!
That is the standard answer from most companys in reply to a CCA request.

We had one that was a blank sheet of paper with Hubbys Name and address on it, the DCA in that instance said they has fulfilled our request and wanted an immediate payment of they were taking us to court.
Don't think it would of got far, it was also the wrong address.

Have you reduced ALL the UE ones to £0.00.
as they are UE we normaly ignore them and try and clear the UE ones, but it is of no matter..

so to get them to negotiate you will need to cancel the SC payment and start on your own repayment plan,

we have template letters that can help with that.

[Roger]

I've reduced the balances on the UE agreements to £0 with Stepchange and I'm now just working up the courage to email them and tell them I'm going self-managed for the rest. I need to send the latest agreements to Niddy for his perusal but I'm sure these are enforceable. I have no issues continuing payments for those that are enforceable but need to eventually wiggle myself in to a position for a F&F for those that are. Whether that means reducing payments to those creditors, I'd happily take advice on.

Roger - yes, PRA own the debt from my 2005 Barclaycard. It seems like a pretty haphazard reconstruction of an agreement to be honest. The way PRA worded the covering letter was that they had fulfilled my request for my agreement though.

Well PRA would say that wouldn't they BUT "..a pretty haphazard reconstruction.." is highly questionable isn't it?
I would File this and wait and see what they do next!

[Katsikaki]

Sorry, nightwatch, I should clarify that I've merely marked the UE balances at £0 with Stepchange so they don't pay the UE creditors this upcoming payment. In the members area, you can update balances and debt owners. The balances are still due and are in the region of £10k.

[nightwatch]

I think you will find that you still have to pay SC the arranged payment as if you are paying all of them, that is the money they worked out that you could afford to pay them from your I&E,
So you will not be able to save the money from the UE one's, they will reallocate it to the others.
this is why I explained it is better to do your arrangement yourself now that you have more information at hand, If you wish to?