Ten years of Black Horse, help me to end it please ?

[Susiebling365]

Re: Ten years of Black Horse, help me to end it please ?

). I also require a full explanation as to what exactly this paperwork represents anyway; since it appears to lack any key information regarding interest rates and/or terms and conditions. I therefore require full details of the interest rate(s) that you have been charging to the account since its inception.

What exactly have BH enclosed a copy of here? Have they claimed it’s an original copy or not?
They have tried to explain how they calculated the interest? Dont think they have answered this question . We are sending copies back to them, as they seem confused as us... Creative accounting ? I m not sure about this bit ... I sent copies of the agreement and uploaded them on here, thats all I have had. They seem to think they are ok, but ??

[Susiebling365]

Re: Ten years of Black Horse, help me to end it please ?

Also, what do they mean by “all fees previously incurred have been removed”? Was interest charged on these fees? BH need to work this out and get back to us...

As I said before, there were a load of late pmt charges, fees, on the statement, they charged me £60 every month, because I was paying by standing order and the date was n t right for them... but they have credited the account, but like I said, they have not deducted them all. All they did with the CAB was to freeze charges at the time and allow me to pay £30 pm. However.... the vehicle was repossessed and I cashed in an endownment to give them a further £9k all in the first 2 years.[/COLOR

I agree totally with your comments in f g and h, I have been fobbed off because I just don t know any different and always thought ( wrongly ) that these big institutions were right, so I did n t argue.

[Susiebling365]

Re: Ten years of Black Horse, help me to end it please ?

It’s also been my understanding that interest is discharged first as well but without sight of any payment record, you remain unable to establish any facts surrounding it all.


I do have a statement which i could send you if you like, it just lists payments charges etc. This is something we are not certain on. They received the price of the motorhome within the first 24 months there abouts. I ll up load it if you like so you can see.... It left a balance when it was repossessed so they hounded me, so I went to CAB.... I cashed in a policy and gave them a further £9k and this left about £8k and this is what I have been paying at £30 then £40 then £50 pm

[Susiebling365]

Re: Ten years of Black Horse, help me to end it please ?

So ???

What next ? The invoice BH sent me presented even more questions...got headache now. lol

[CleverClogs (RIP)]

Re: Ten years of Black Horse, help me to end it please ?

a). The only paperwork ever received from Black Horse Finance is not only barely legible but lacks any details regarding the part exchange deal of a Kia Sportage and caravan on xx/xx/xx. I therefore require full details of the part-exchange deal that took place around this time and/or a full explanation as to why you appear to have no trace of it.

BH seem to be saying that they have no record of any part-exchange deposit for the vehicle. The invoice from the dealer (they say they have provided you with a copy) was 34K and the amount of credit was £28K.... so is BH saying that the amount of £34K was reduced by a part-exchange deal of around £8K; meaning that the amount borrowed got reduced to £28K? if you signed this Agreement, it does suggest that you read and agreed to it..... so anything you can come up with at this point would be good.

Since when did £34000 - £8000 = £28000 ?

Not even Gideon Osbourne could get that.

g). I also require a full explanation as to why an invoice and part-exchange signed by my ex-husband was even accepted by Black Horse Finance in the first place, when neither the car or the caravan were ever in his name.

They appear to be saying that they didn’t accept any signed documentation from anyone else because you were the customer and the finance Agreement was with you; their customer. So... they either overlooked it, didn’t receive it prior to the Agreement being drawn up... and.... certainly didn’t address it as an issue when it was received, which they do state it was but fail to mention the date when it was received. Seeing as most companies date stamp documentation as/when it is received, I will be asking them to confirm the date. The also seem to be hiding behind some kind of data protection reasoning.... so I will be asking for the legal reasoning behind heir decision not to disclose this to you.

Protection of those responsible?

[CleverClogs (RIP)]

Re: Ten years of Black Horse, help me to end it please ?

I do have a statement which i could send you if you like, it just lists payments charges etc. This is something we are not certain on. They received the price of the motorhome within the first 24 months there abouts. I ll up load it if you like so you can see.... It left a balance when it was repossessed so they hounded me, so I went to CAB.... I cashed in a policy and gave them a further £9k and this left about £8k and this is what I have been paying at £30 then £40 then £50 pm

Why did you keep increasing the sum paid?

[PriorityOne]

Re: Ten years of Black Horse, help me to end it please ?

Since when did £34000 - £8000 = £28000 ?

Not even Gideon Osbourne could get that.


Protection of those responsible?

Ok, ok.... Maths was never my strong point CC..... lol!

As I said earlier, BH seem keen to get rid of this and would rather have the £3K F&F from you than sell it to a DCA because they probably won't get as much that way. My thinking is to write and get them to offset one of the figures they provided against the F&F they're after. Like you, I wouldn't be paying any more on this one either but it's not my account, it's yours.... so I needed to be sure which way you were swaying.

I would be very surprised if BH agreed to offset a F&F but if they don't, then they would be selling it with a miss-mash of figures that they can't quite justify which could/would invalidate the assignment (sale) of the account.... The unsuspecting DCA would then be left to explain the figure they're after through BH, which they won't be able to do. So, although it could go on and on..... providing we respond to all correspondence, that should be all that happens.

That is my gut feeling on the issue as it stands......

I will put together a reply for you to send to BH over the next few days and if you are happy to roll with this one until BH get sick of the whole thing and spit their dummy out, then that's what we'll try and do......

Not sure why all my apostrophes were showing as numbers on here but hey ho..... lol..... I've managed to edit most of them.

[Susiebling365]

Re: Ten years of Black Horse, help me to end it please ?

uote:
Originally Posted by PriorityOne
a). The only paperwork ever received from Black Horse Finance is not only barely legible but lacks any details regarding the part exchange deal of a Kia Sportage and caravan on xx/xx/xx. I therefore require full details of the part-exchange deal that took place around this time and/or a full explanation as to why you appear to have no trace of it.

BH seem to be saying that they have no record of any part-exchange deposit for the vehicle. The invoice from the dealer (they say they have provided you with a copy) was 34K and the amount of credit was £28K.... so is BH saying that the amount of £34K was reduced by a part-exchange deal of around £8K; meaning that the amount borrowed got reduced to £28K? if you signed this Agreement, it does suggest that you read and agreed to it..... so anything you can come up with at this point would be good.
Since when did £34000 - £8000 = £28000 ?


The difference between all the different agreements and invoiced, is a right comedy of errors.... This is why I can t get a sensible answer....That particular one.. if you scroll to the DA one... they stuck £6k on for non vatable items ????

[Susiebling365]

Re: Ten years of Black Horse, help me to end it please ?

Why did you keep increasing the sum paid?

The DCA at the time kept hounding me for more money, saying the debt would never be paid.. I was on my own, naive , there was nt anywhere like this to go to apart from CAB, So just kept them sweet , until now .. things are different now.

They threatened me with court etc, but now the debt isn t even on my credit report, and when I replied to the threat they admitted they no longer update it as the time is out on it. or word s to that affect...

[Susiebling365]

Re: Ten years of Black Horse, help me to end it please ?

Maths was never my strong point

Neither is it BH >>> The amounts keep changing so you re excused.




I will put together a reply for you to send to BH over the next few days and if you are happy to roll with this one until BH get sick of the whole thing and spit their dummy out, then that's what we'll try and do......


I m rolling, I can see now they won t take me to court, which was my biggest worry, I ve worked hard to crawl out of the debt I was landed in, and I v paid more than enough on this .. I shall wait for the dummy to land ... thanks Priority......

[Susiebling365]

Re: Ten years of Black Horse, help me to end it please ?

I did think of harping on about the agreements not being identicle (post 118 ) ?

Also surely BH have some responsibility for the calculations of the deal submitted by their client Don Amott? They don t just hand money over cos I have signed for it?

[PriorityOne]

Re: Ten years of Black Horse, help me to end it please ?

Ok Susie..... please scan over this letter very carefully for accuracy and let me know if you find any glaring errors..... i have addressed it to Mr. Jones with the fancy title, at BH and I hope he ends up with a.... :

I had intended it to be short and sweet but I was bored at work yesterday and got a bit carried away.....


Dear Mr Jones,

My Ref: SECOND FORMAL COMPLAINT
Your Ref: xxxxxxxxxx

I refer to your letter dated 11th December 2012; the content of which has raised a number of additional concerns. I will therefore need to re-direct you back to the complaint in question for further clarification and remind you that all responses given by your company are requested under the Consumer Protection from Unfair Trading Regulations (CPUTR) 2008.

a) You appear to be claiming that you have no record of any part-exchange deposit for the vehicle in question. I therefore require an explanation as to what the invoice that you kindly supplied as part of my Subject Access Request represents if not part of a record. I also require a detailed breakdown regarding the deal struck between yourselves and your client; Don Amott around the date of this invoice.

b) The invoice from Don Amott states an amount of 34K. I therefore require a detailed breakdown of all documents in your possession that substantiate how this amount became reduced from the former figure down to £28K. If you still maintain that you are unable to substantiate precisely how this arrangement occurred, then I require a detailed explanation as to your reasoning for merely accepting this figure from Don Amott without question, prior to releasing £28K into my hands.

c) I also require a detailed explanation regarding a letter to Don Amott from yourselves that I have in my possession appearing to set a deal with that company, showing a credit balance that to date, remains unsubstantiated.

d) I have noted your comments regarding the invoice for £10,500; bearing my ex-husband’s signature. However, I require confirmation regarding the precise date when it was forwarded to you, when it is dated and, as I am sure that you will have date stamped receipt of such documentation, confirmation of the precise date when it was received by yourselves and why it was never queried after you received it.

e) I also require a detailed explanation as to the meaning of “contra £5,760” scribed on the face of that same invoice.

f) I also require full details of the “non-VAT extras” stated at £6K that have been stated.

g) As already stated, over a period of 28 months, I repaid £32,130.18; £28,000.00 plus £4130.18 interest, including a number of smaller additional payments amounting to a grand total of £35,660.18

h) I am also still waiting for a full breakdown of all interest rates and charges that you have applied to the account since its inception. I have noted your comment that “all fees previously incurred have been removed” but according to my own records, this does not appear to be the case.

i) With regard to the calculation of interest on the account that you provided in your response, I require confirmation as to whether you have retained the original contractual documentation containing the figures you have provided. If not, then I require precise details of the manner by which these figures have been calculated and, the precise manner by which the original documentation was destroyed under the Data Protection Act.

J) If you remain unable to provide me with a full Statement of Account as requested in my original letter, then I require a full payment record instead; detailing every single payment made towards this account, all charges/fees deducted and all charges/fees refunded, since inception. If you remain unable to furnish me with this information, then I require a detailed explanation as to how you have managed to establish any outstanding balance at all.

k) I have noted your request for me to explain how your signed paperwork and customer copy do not agree but if it remains your contention that they do in fact agree, I merely require your confirmation under the Consumer Protection from Unfair Trading Regulations (CPUTR) 2008 that this is the case and that the figures shown on both documents are indeed the same.

l) I have noted your reluctance to supply me with a copy of the receipt relating to the sale of my repossessed vehicle. Please be advised however, that should this matter be brought before a court, then you will indeed be required to produce such evidence in order to substantiate any amounts alleged to be owing; from the date of its unlawful sale until present day.


I have also noted that you “reserve the right to engage the services of third party companies” and/or, consider the “potential sale of the debt to recover payments in respect of the balance due” but I would respectfully suggest that you don’t bother. All companies will simply be re-directed back to you in order to substantiate the true facts surrounding this matter.

Instead, I put it you once again to consider writing off any balance that your company alleges to still exist on this account; in consideration of the £3,659.58 that you have charged as “late payment interest” and the amount(s) already paid to your company over the years following the unlawful sale of my vehicle, various unsubstantiated figures and lack of proper documentation.

I look forward to your considered response in due course.

Yours faithfully,

[Susiebling365]

Re: Ten years of Black Horse, help me to end it please ?

Brilliant !!!!!!



I shall just add copies that will "assist" his understanding of the mess.

I am not sure why the sale of my vehicle was unlawful but will leave it in cos it sounds good.... I cannot find any glaring errors but will re read it just to be sure


Thanks a million

[PriorityOne]

Re: Ten years of Black Horse, help me to end it please ?

You're welcome....

[PriorityOne]

Re: Ten years of Black Horse, help me to end it please ?

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I am not sure why the sale of my vehicle was unlawful but will leave it in cos it sounds good..

Just re-read your post.... the vehicle was in your name but your ex-husband signed the invoice and part-exchange paperwork, which BH accepted. It should have had nothing to do with him.

In reality, it's probably the dealer who is more at fault here but hey-ho..... it's worth a shot.