Ten years of Black Horse, help me to end it please ?

[PriorityOne]

Re: Ten years of Black Horse, help me to end it please ?

Hi Susie.....

Just updating your thread so that people are aware of my response to your PM.

I've had a brief look at BH's reply.... and (as expected) they have failed to address any/most of the points raised in the complaint. Now that Moorcroft have backed off, it leaves BH to either answer concerns raised in the complaint or flog the account on without dealing with any of it. My bet is that they'll flog the account on rather than put anything in writing.... which will give the next unsuspecting company a major headache when they're then requested to explain it all as a 3rd party.

So.... we can either wait for their next little missive or fire off a reply re-directing them back to the points raised.

I am more than happy to construct a reply for you this week if you want to get something off quickly....

[Susiebling365]

Re: Ten years of Black Horse, help me to end it please ?

Thanks ever so

I think a response to their offer if thats ok....They offered me £3000k or £5 per month, I don t think so when they have n t answered my questions.

Susiebling

[CleverClogs (RIP)]

Re: Ten years of Black Horse, help me to end it please ?

They offered me £3000k or £5 per month,

£3000k is £3,000,000

[PriorityOne]

Re: Ten years of Black Horse, help me to end it please ?

Thanks ever so

I think a response to their offer if thats ok....They offered me £3000k or £5 per month, I don t think so when they have n t answered my questions.

Susiebling

Ok.... no worries. I'm back at work tomorrow but will have something short and sweet for you to send back to them this week. They do sound very keen to get rid of this one; hence the low settlement offer (in their eyes anyway).

Have you had any feedback from Niddy re. the Agreement you sent through to him..... ?

[Susiebling365]

Re: Ten years of Black Horse, help me to end it please ?

Ok Ok ... slip of the type fingerrrrr hic !

[Susiebling365]

Re: Ten years of Black Horse, help me to end it please ?

see why the name clever clogs

[Susiebling365]

Re: Ten years of Black Horse, help me to end it please ?

Yes ... Low to them, but I feel I paid over the odds as it is, and I can put £3k to better use now I m a ....lady of leisure.

I sent them to Niddy and he asked for a brief history , but I know its not straight forward.


Thanks .... much appreciated

[PriorityOne]

Re: Ten years of Black Horse, help me to end it please ?

Yes ... Low to them, but I feel I paid over the odds as it is, and I can put £3k to better use now I m a ....lady of leisure.

I sent them to Niddy and he asked for a brief history , but I know its not straight forward.


Thanks .... much appreciated

They will accept lower than this amount eventually but it depends how long you want to string it out and if you're prepared to pay anything further to settle this after all their cock-ups......

[CleverClogs (RIP)]

Re: Ten years of Black Horse, help me to end it please ?

see why the name clever clogs

It is self-deprecatory wit.

[PriorityOne]

Re: Ten years of Black Horse, help me to end it please ?

Susie, is there any way of making BH's response to the complaint any bigger?.... I'm struggling to read Page 2 in depth.

If not, does anyone else know how Susie can scan this up in a more readable format?

Many thanks....

**EDIT** No worries.... I've managed to make it bigger.... I may need to get back to you for further clarification on some points before finalising a reply.

[Never-In-Doubt]

Re: Ten years of Black Horse, help me to end it please ?

I sent them to Niddy and he asked for a brief history , but I know its not straight forward.

Sorry been ever so busy of late - glad P1 is here looking after you, if you get stuck give me a yell

[PriorityOne]

Re: Ten years of Black Horse, help me to end it please ?

Ok.... I've had a proper look at their response and nitpicked it. Extracts of your complaint are below and my comments to their response to each point are highlighted in red underneath. Hopefully they will come out in red otherwise you'll struggle to follow it..... but they don't always highlight the way i want on a Mac..... so I may have to fiddle around with it until they stand out somehow..... lol


a). The only paperwork ever received from Black Horse Finance is not only barely legible but lacks any details regarding the part exchange deal of a Kia Sportage and caravan on xx/xx/xx. I therefore require full details of the part-exchange deal that took place around this time and/or a full explanation as to why you appear to have no trace of it.

BH seem to be saying that they have no record of any part-exchange deposit for the vehicle. The invoice from the dealer (they say they have provided you with a copy) was 34K and the amount of credit was £28K.... so is BH saying that the amount of £34K was reduced by a part-exchange deal of around £8K; meaning that the amount borrowed got reduced to £28K? if you signed this Agreement, it does suggest that you read and agreed to it..... so anything you can come up with at this point would be good.

b). According to the copy documentation I have in my possession, the deal was for an amount of £28,000 over 10 years and the subsequent loan amounted to £40,094.35 to be paid over a ten year period. I therefore require a full explanation regarding the invoice bearing my ex-husband***8217;s signature indicating a balance of £10,500.

BH say this was forwarded to them but don't say when this was..... but they imply that it wasn't forwarded at the time the Agreement was taken out, so we need to pin them down as to precisely when it was forwarded, when it is dated and why it wasn't queried when received. There seems to be a discrepancy here that BH are trying to brush under the carpet and it could be one of the reasons why they would rather flog this account than take it through the courts. Just because it wasn't queried then doesn't mean it shouldn't be queried now and they may have already realised that a court would do that if they pursued things this way and you raised it as part of your defence..... which of course, you would.

c). I also require a full explanation as to what exactly this paperwork represents anyway; since it appears to lack any key information regarding interest rates and/or terms and conditions. I therefore require full details of the interest rate(s) that you have been charging to the account since its inception.

What exactly have BH enclosed a copy of here? Have they claimed it's an original copy or not?


d). I also require a full explanation as to the precise manner in which you have calculated interest on this account since inception, since no interest rates are shown on the documentation you have provided.

Are they claiming to have no contractual documentation that actually states these figures? That's how I'm reading it at the moment....

e). I also require a full breakdown of all fees and charges added to the account since that time; either by Black Horse Finance or any agents you may have instructed to act on your behalf, including precise details of what these fees and/or charges were for.

Their response is not a complete breakdown.... so I will be asking BH once again for a complete breakdown of all interest and charges and using the figure provided so far in conjunction with a request for a write-off; since it more than covers the £3K they';re asking for as a F&F.... but I need to work on this.... Also, what do they mean by "all fees previously incurred have been removed"? Was interest charged on these fees? BH need to work this out and get back to us....

f). The signed paperwork and the customer copy do not agree, I therefore require a full explanation of how you deem it to be a "copy"; since by definition, a copy is a replica and should look exactly the same.

It's not up to you to state why you believe it's not a copy; it's for them to confirm (under CPUTR) whether it is or it isn';t. They have dodged this in their response here....

g). I also require a full explanation as to why an invoice and part-exchange signed by my ex-husband was even accepted by Black Horse Finance in the first place, when neither the car or the caravan were ever in his name.

They appear to be saying that they didn't accept any signed documentation from anyone else because you were the customer and the finance Agreement was with you; their customer. So... they either overlooked it, didn't receive it prior to the Agreement being drawn up... and.... certainly didn't address it as an issue when it was received, which they do state it was but fail to mention the date when it was received. Seeing as most companies date stamp documentation as/when it is received, I will be asking them to confirm the date. The also seem to be hiding behind some kind of data protection reasoning.... so I will be asking for the legal reasoning behind heir decision not to disclose this to you.

h). As the caravan was eventually repossessed and sold for a sum of £19,400.25. I also require a full explanation as to why I was never provided with a receipt for this transaction.

Wriggling out of this one it seems. A court would certainly expect them to produce such evidence upon request; perhaps another reason why they don't seem keen to go through the courts with it. How else are you meant to establish an amount alleged to be owing? They seem to be trying to separate the Agreement from the goods.....

i). I also require a full explanation as to why no Statements of Account have been sent to me since 2002, apart from one statement in 2004 and one in 2011.

They are saying that unless you request one, you won't get one which is probably correct.

j). I also require a full explanation as to where these Statements of Account are and the reason they were not sent to me as part of my request under the Data Protection Act. If you find that you do not in fact hold any such records pertaining to myself, I require a full breakdown of the manner in which they were destroyed, precisely when they were destroyed and, the reason for their disposal.

They may not have produced statements but they should have a precise record of each and every payment made to the account over the years, all charges/fees and, the reasons why these were added. If they are claiming not, then how have they established an outstanding balance? Therefore, the question still stands and they will need to respond to it properly.

k). Over a period of 28 months, I repaid £32,130.18 of an incorrectly calculated loan (based on dubious "copy"; documents) to your company; £28,000.00 plus £4130.18 interest. I require a full explanation as to why such discrepancies were ever allowed to happen and why it/they continued unchecked by a company like yourselves, who should have got it right in the first place.

It's also been my understanding that interest is discharged first as well but without sight of any payment record, you remain unable to establish any facts surrounding it all.

l). Since Citizen's Advice Bureau negotiated between your company and myself, I have also paid a further £3,530.00 in smaller repayments and in regular monthly intervals since; amounting to a grand total of £35,660.18. I now require a full explanation as to how your company has the audacity to keep hounding me for money when the whole sorry saga is riddled with discrepancies like the ones outlined above.

Still prepared to accept £5 token payments which is no good to us here.

OK.... they are saying that they won't write it off BUT they're certainly not thinking of going to court with it. Instead they will either ";reserve the right to engage the services of third party companies"; (keep hold of it ad get debt collectors to contact you) or, consider the "potential sale of the debt ot recover payments in respect of the balance due"; (sell it to a debt collector and have no further interest in it).

As they want to get as much as possible out of you though, they are prepared to accept £3K as a F&F because they know they won't get that much from selling it to debt collectors.


Please let me have your thoughts on the above before we go any further.....

[Susiebling365]

Re: Ten years of Black Horse, help me to end it please ?

Crikey.... I wish this site had been around 8 years ago and maybe I would n t of paid so much and had such stress... anyway.

Your support and my partner... It empowers me, Im not paying anything .. I have retired and my money stays with me where it belongs, I agree, there is so much wrong with this I don t think now it will go to court, they are chasing interest payments, although they refute this...My bf and I have muted over a reply to their " kind offer" much in the way you have said above, Its good to see that you think along the same lines , .


I have had statements,, 3, that I requested over the years, the last one was sent with SAR, There are a variety of charges, and they have deducted them, However my bf added them all up and they havent deducted them all...

[Susiebling365]

Re: Ten years of Black Horse, help me to end it please ?

BH seem to be saying that they have no record of any part-exchange deposit for the vehicle. The invoice from the dealer (they say they have provided you with a copy) was 34K and the amount of credit was £28K.... so is BH saying that the amount of £34K was reduced by a part-exchange deal of around £8K; meaning that the amount borrowed got reduced to £28K? if you signed this Agreement, it does suggest that you read and agreed to it..... so anything you can come up with at this point would be good.


This is where there is so many errors. and yes we can keep going on this.
The exchange goods were mine to sign away, BH financed the caravan and I have a letter to DonAmott from BH settling the deal with a credit balance that was never paid to me. I also did not sign for the goods to be sold to DA, My ex did all the dealings, I was too busy finding a bed for the night. The invoice I posted above, is the first time I have had sight of this and someone has written contra £5760 on it.... I know that is something to do with the caravan , but we thought of querying this. Also we are querying $6k of nonvat extras, and also it was non vatable anyway, because it was for my crip of an ex... so yes we can keep going on this.

[Susiebling365]

Re: Ten years of Black Horse, help me to end it please ?

BH say this was forwarded to them but don't say when this was..... but they imply that it wasn't forwarded at the time the Agreement was taken out, so we need to pin them down as to precisely when it was forwarded, when it is dated and why it wasn't queried when received. There seems to be a discrepancy here that BH are trying to brush under the carpet and it could be one of the reasons why they would rather flog this account than take it through the courts. Just because it wasn't queried then doesn't mean it shouldn't be queried now and they may have already realised that a court would do that if they pursued things this way and you raised it as part of your defence..... which of course, you would.


This was the part ex deal my ex signed... and where money disappeared, and no they wont want to know about this because "without predjudice! it looks like somebody pocketed some money and stuck it on my bill, I was told there was no equity on the car and caravan, well there was,