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Enforceable or not - PRA group change their mind

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  • Enforceable or not - PRA group change their mind

    Hi,
    Im having a few issue with PRA group I want to share with you.

    To cut a long story short, after a CCA request, they sent me a few statements and a generic T&Cs and stated that the debt was unenforceable. After this I stopped payment and made an offer of 5% for a full and final settlement which they have rejected.

    Six weeks later they have now sent me the same documentation again via email and stated that the debt IS enforceable.

    Should I tell them to get lost because they still haven't sent me a SIGNED application form?
    ​​​​​​

  • #2
    Personally I’d compare the two sets of documents with a fine tooth com and if it is the case that they are identical them I’d be inclined to ignore for the time being, of course others may give you different advice.

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by dazzammm View Post
      Hi,
      Im having a few issue with PRA group I want to share with you.

      To cut a long story short, after a CCA request, they sent me a few statements and a generic T&Cs and stated that the debt was unenforceable. After this I stopped payment and made an offer of 5% for a full and final settlement which they have rejected.

      Six weeks later they have now sent me the same documentation again via email and stated that the debt IS enforceable.

      Should I tell them to get lost because they still haven't sent me a SIGNED application form?
      ​​​​​​

      Can you direct to the Diary entry for this Debt? Without this background it isn't possible to give any advice!

      With AAD send unredacted CCA received (that's assuming the CCA request included £1) to Niddy with a reference to your Diary entry.
      webmaster@all-about-debt.co.uk

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by dazzammm View Post
        Im having a few issue with PRA group I want to share with you.

        To cut a long story short, after a CCA request, they sent me a few statements and a generic T&Cs and stated that the debt was unenforceable. After this I stopped payment and made an offer of 5% for a full and final settlement which they have rejected.

        Six weeks later they have now sent me the same documentation again via email and stated that the debt IS enforceable.

        Should I tell them to get lost because they still haven't sent me a SIGNED application form?


        I'd like to share some issues which I had with PRA too

        In the case of PRA Group (UK) Ltd v Diana Mayhew (me) PRA produced documentation which the court ruled was irredeemably unenforceable.

        See this post by Joanna Connolly Solicitors>

        Originally posted by Joanna Connolly View Post
        ‘“RECONSTITUTED AGREEMENT” – IRREDEEMABLY UNENFORCEABLE”
        “UNREDACTED DEEDS OF ASSIGNMENT – NO ASSIGMENT PROVED”


        So, held Recorder Bellamy in PRA Group (UK) Limited v Mayhew at Central London County Court on 22nd March 2017, at the end of a 3 day multi track trial, when dismissing PRA’s claim against our client.


        Stale debts sued for on the back of 2 ‘reconstituted’ MBNA credit card agreements (May 1999 and October 2000) were held irredeemably unenforceable under CCA 1974. The evidence of an honest witness was preferred to that of so called “reconstituted agreements”.


        After 3 days of close forensic examination of, and legal argument about, evidence and documents from both PRA and MBNA stating that our client’s specific debt had been assigned, the court held that no assignment had been proved.


        Efforts, over many months, in earlier cases to force PRA into disclosure of un-redacted deeds and deep and sustained forensic challenge to the provenance of documents needed to prove regulatory compliance, finally drew back the veil. The reality behind bulk debt purchasing was revealed.


        This decision shows that just saying an agreement is enforceable and producing a “reconstituted” copy does not prove that it is enforceable. Just saying an agreement has been assigned and producing a notice saying it has been assigned does not prove legal assignment.


        Debt purchasers need to provide proof. If that means the pitifully few pence in the pound they pay for stale debts will increase because banks will now have to start keeping original evidence complying with regulatory consumer protection measures, it is hard to imagine many tears being shed, outside the City of London.
        I'll be back online to tomorrow to ask you a few questions about you current situation.

        Di





        Legal Disclaimer

        I am a Litigation Executive at
        Joanna Connolly Solicitors a firm which specialises in consumer credit. If you need to contact me you can send a message by clicking on my username or by emailing me at di@joannaconnollysolicitors.co.uk or by telephoning 0330 053 9340. Our initial advice is always free.

        Any posts I make on the AAD Consumer Forum are for information and discussion purposes only and shouldn't be seen as legal advice. Any advice I provide on the forum is without liability. If you are unsure please seek formal legal guidance or contact your local citizens advice bureau at https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by dazzammm View Post
          Should I tell them to get lost because they still haven't sent me a SIGNED application form?

          Who was the original creditor before the debt was assigned to PRA?

          How did you apply for the financial product such as online or in response to an invitation letter.

          Was it a credit card or loan or something else?

          When (what year) did you open the account?

          Was there PPI on the account?

          Di
          Legal Disclaimer

          I am a Litigation Executive at
          Joanna Connolly Solicitors a firm which specialises in consumer credit. If you need to contact me you can send a message by clicking on my username or by emailing me at di@joannaconnollysolicitors.co.uk or by telephoning 0330 053 9340. Our initial advice is always free.

          Any posts I make on the AAD Consumer Forum are for information and discussion purposes only and shouldn't be seen as legal advice. Any advice I provide on the forum is without liability. If you are unsure please seek formal legal guidance or contact your local citizens advice bureau at https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Diana Mayhew View Post


            Who was the original creditor before the debt was assigned to PRA?

            How did you apply for the financial product such as online or in response to an invitation letter.

            Was it a credit card or loan or something else?

            When (what year) did you open the account?

            Was there PPI on the account?

            Di
            1 barclaycard
            2 can't remember
            3 credit card
            4 2011
            5 no PPI

            The confusion seems to be they think that I think it is unenforceable so they are going back to the original creditors for documents. I keep telling them its THEIR opinion its unenforceable follow a CCA request I sent a few months ago and their response letter.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by dazzammm View Post

              1 barclaycard
              2 can't remember
              3 credit card
              4 2011
              5 no PPI

              The confusion seems to be they think that I think it is unenforceable so they are going back to the original creditors for documents. I keep telling them its THEIR opinion its unenforceable follow a CCA request I sent a few months ago and their response letter.

              I'm not sure they're confused, but I do think your ongoing communications have only encouraged them to try harder to produce compliant documents.

              As Roger has said you should send the documents to Niddy (Never-in-Doubt forum owner) to ask his opinion of whether they are enforceable or not. Send them by email using webmaster@all-about-debt.co.uk . Don't blank anything out because the email is secure. Put your username in the subject bar and a link to this thread in the body of the email.

              My suggestion is you should send a Subject Access Request to Barclaycard to see what data and information they hold on the account. That way you'll know if other statutory obligations were carried out such as the Default Notice etc.

              PRA can be litigious so how much is the balance outstanding (according to them) which might give some indication as to what their next move could be?

              Have you been sent a 'Letter of Claim' by PRA if not that might be their next step? This would give you 30 days to reply/respond.

              Di
              Legal Disclaimer

              I am a Litigation Executive at
              Joanna Connolly Solicitors a firm which specialises in consumer credit. If you need to contact me you can send a message by clicking on my username or by emailing me at di@joannaconnollysolicitors.co.uk or by telephoning 0330 053 9340. Our initial advice is always free.

              Any posts I make on the AAD Consumer Forum are for information and discussion purposes only and shouldn't be seen as legal advice. Any advice I provide on the forum is without liability. If you are unsure please seek formal legal guidance or contact your local citizens advice bureau at https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by dazzammm View Post
                after a CCA request, they sent me a few statements and a generic T&Cs and stated that the debt was unenforceable. . . .

                Six weeks later they have now sent me the same documentation again via email and stated that the debt IS enforceable.

                Is this account still on hold with PRA?

                And has Niddy given you his opinion of the enforceability (or not) of the credit agreements you were sent?

                Di
                Legal Disclaimer

                I am a Litigation Executive at
                Joanna Connolly Solicitors a firm which specialises in consumer credit. If you need to contact me you can send a message by clicking on my username or by emailing me at di@joannaconnollysolicitors.co.uk or by telephoning 0330 053 9340. Our initial advice is always free.

                Any posts I make on the AAD Consumer Forum are for information and discussion purposes only and shouldn't be seen as legal advice. Any advice I provide on the forum is without liability. If you are unsure please seek formal legal guidance or contact your local citizens advice bureau at https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk

                Comment

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