Newbie, with CCA requests coming in and straight to threatening letters

[Rinnie]

Hi i am new here and i am not very good on computers. So please be patient with me. Myself and partner are both retired, with credit card debts. One of my children has been telling me for a few years to CCA all of our credit cards, most have been sold on. Finally did it early this year, most only started responding recently. I have no idea whatsoever if they are enforceable. Have been told one was not, now getting told it is. Long story short have been in a debt management plan with payplan for over 6 years, they have just let me go due to not paying for the last 6 months or so. One of the debts i caved and started paying £2 a month. Also partner has Alzheimer's.

[The Tech Clerk]

send the agreements you have got do not blank any info out to:- webmaster@all-about-debt.co.uk by the way welcome

[The Tech Clerk]

could you start a diary for each and every card you and your husband have , dating letters contents etc any default date/taken ou etc etc, meantime look around at peoples diaries and get the idea

[Joanna Connolly Solicitors]

Myself and partner are both retired, with credit card debts. One of my children has been telling me for a few years to CCA all of our credit cards, most have been sold on. Finally did it early this year, most only started responding recently. I have no idea whatsoever if they are enforceable. Have been told one was not, now getting told it is.

Hello

I think you'll find that Never-in-Doubt (aka Niddy) will be able to give an opinion on whether a credit agreement is enforceable or not. I don't know who told you one wasn't, and then you were told it is, but if it was a creditor, debt purchaser or their solicitors then you can take it with a pinch of salt!

It helps if you can make a separate post for each of the debts so they can be tackled one at a time since no two debts are the same. Use this format so the forum can see what's what >

• Type of account (credit card/loan/overdraft/catalogue account etc)
• Date commenced (ideally before April 2007)
• Approx balance
• Date last paid (approximate date you last made the FULL contractual payment)
• Are you on arrangement or not paying
• Status (default/in arrears/up-to-date)
• Account owner (who is writing to you, a creditor/lender, Debt Collection Agent, or a debt purchaser)

If your partner has Alzheimers it may be appropriate to approach the debt owner's "Sensitive Team" in an effort to get a debt written off, but maybe wait to see what the overall situation is with the accounts before forming a strategy.

I look forward to helping you.

Di

[Rinnie]

send the agreements you have got do not blank any info out to:- webmaster@all-about-debt.co.uk by the way welcome

Thank you

[Rinnie]

Hello

I think you'll find that Never-in-Doubt (aka Niddy) will be able to give an opinion on whether a credit agreement is enforceable or not. I don't know who told you one wasn't, and then you were told it is, but if it was a creditor, debt purchaser or their solicitors then you can take it with a pinch of salt!

It helps if you can make a separate post for each of the debts so they can be tackled one at a time since no two debts are the same. Use this format so the forum can see what's what >

• Type of account (credit card/loan/overdraft/catalogue account etc)
• Date commenced (ideally before April 2007)
• Approx balance
• Date last paid (approximate date you last made the FULL contractual payment)
• Are you on arrangement or not paying
• Status (default/in arrears/up-to-date)
• Account owner (who is writing to you, a creditor/lender, Debt Collection Agent, or a debt purchaser)

If your partner has Alzheimers it may be appropriate to approach the debt owner's "Sensitive Team" in an effort to get a debt written off, but maybe wait to see what the overall situation is with the accounts before forming a strategy.

I look forward to helping you.

Di

Hi it was a Virgin(mbna) they was the only one to respond in a reasonable time frame. They sent me a letter stating it was unenforceable, i have recently received another stating it is now enforceable. Will get all my paperwork together and get help posting everything. Thank you

[Joanna Connolly Solicitors]

it was a Virgin(mbna) they was the only one to respond in a reasonable time frame. They sent me a letter stating it was unenforceable, i have recently received another stating it is now enforceable.

If it was a MBNA Virgin branded credit card which started before April 2007 you might find this thread interesting > https://all-about-debt.co.uk/forum/f...-unenforceable

Who currently owns this debt, assuming it's been assigned to a debt purchaser?

If it's PRA you might find this thread interesting too (for obvious reasons ) > https://all-about-debt.co.uk/forum/f...ana-mayhew-win

‘“RECONSTITUTED AGREEMENT” – IRREDEEMABLY UNENFORCEABLE”
“UNREDACTED DEEDS OF ASSIGNMENT – NO ASSIGMENT PROVED”


So, held Recorder Bellamy in PRA Group (UK) Limited v Mayhew at Central London County Court on 22nd March 2017, at the end of a 3 day multi track trial, when dismissing PRA’s claim against our client.


Stale debts sued for on the back of 2 ‘reconstituted’ MBNA credit card agreements (May 1999 and October 2000) were held irredeemably unenforceable under CCA 1974. The evidence of an honest witness was preferred to that of so called “reconstituted agreements”.


After 3 days of close forensic examination of, and legal argument about, evidence and documents from both PRA and MBNA stating that our client’s specific debt had been assigned, the court held that no assignment had been proved.


Efforts, over many months, in earlier cases to force PRA into disclosure of un-redacted deeds and deep and sustained forensic challenge to the provenance of documents needed to prove regulatory compliance, finally drew back the veil. The reality behind bulk debt purchasing was revealed.


This decision shows that just saying an agreement is enforceable and producing a “reconstituted” copy does not prove that it is enforceable. Just saying an agreement has been assigned and producing a notice saying it has been assigned does not prove legal assignment.


Debt purchasers need to provide proof. If that means the pitifully few pence in the pound they pay for stale debts will increase because banks will now have to start keeping original evidence complying with regulatory consumer protection measures, it is hard to imagine many tears being shed, outside the City of London.

Di

[Rinnie]

1st out of 7

Hi first and the most threatening one at the moment.

MBNA (virgin money) Credit Card
10/03/2010 Date of commencement according to paperwork received
Original Balance £3737.63 PRA takeover 23/10/2012 Current Balance £2776.96 as of 22/11/2018
December 2011 was the last full contractual payment.
April 2012 Started reduced payment DMP
Last Paid anything 8/03/2018 CCA request sent 24/02/2018
Defaulted fallen off credit file
PRA group

Letter sent 3/04/2018 Deeming the account unenforceable
Letter sent 31/07/2018 requesting to get in touch regarding debt, and a copy of credit agreement (was not received, they sent a copy recently because i did not receive)
Letter sent 08/11/2018 please get in touch within 14 days
Letter sent 22/11/2018 This one says that it is a Letter Before Claim

They are not giving me chance to breathe now

[Rinnie]

2nd out of 7:

Halifax One Credit Card.
06/09/2004 Date of commencement according to paperwork received
Original Balance £6,889.53, Akinika Debt Recovery Ltd takeover 24/05/2012, Cabot Financial (Europe) Ltd takeover 11/07/2018, Current Balance £5,101.29 as of 28/11/2018.
December 2011 was the last full contractual payment.
April 2012 Started reduced payment DMP.
Last Paid anything 08/03/2018 CCA request sent 24/02/2018.
Defaulted fallen off credit file.
Cabot Financial (Europe) Ltd.

Letter sent 02/03/18 Referred to client
Letter sent 25/06/18 Broken Payment
Letter sent 13/07/18 Welcome to Cabot
Letter sent 03/08/18 Welcome to Cabot
Letter sent 21/08/18 No longer on Hold
Letter sent 25/08/18 Statement of Account (reveals exact commencement date)
Letter sent 06/09/18 Welcome to Cabot
Letter sent 28/09/18 No longer on Hold
Letter sent 19/10/18 No longer on Hold
Letter sent 10/11/18 Application Form

Niddy has checked and this is unenforceable so far

[Rinnie]

3rd out of 7:

Barclay Credit Card (husbands)
Unknown date, as described finding that information from my husband who Alzheimer's is practically impossible.
Original Balance £6,048.60, Link Financial Ltd takeover 23/11/2012, Current Balance £4,477.35 as of 28/11/2018.
January 2012 was the last full contractual payment.
April 2012 Started reduced payment DMP.
Last Paid anything 08/03/2018 CCA request sent 24/02/2018.
Defaulted.
Link Financial Ltd

Letter sent 16/11/18 Reconstructed Credit Agreement & Copy of the terms of your credit agreement as varied in accordance wit section 82(1) of the act.

This was the first and final letter we received since the request CCA, however judging by the paperwork it was provided to Link Financial Ltd 20/03/2018 several days after the original request but we only receive the document for the first time after asking on numerous occasions throughout this year on 16th November 2018 this month.

Niddy has checked unenforceable so far

[Rinnie]

4th out of 7:

Tesco Credit Card.
Unsure on commencement date, however believe it was 2010.
Original Balance £2358.06, taken over Paragon Personal Finance Ltd / Idem Servicing 23/03/2015 Current Balance £1,754.49 as of 28/11/2018.
December 2011 was the last full contractual payment.
April 2012 Started reduced payment DMP.
Last Paid anything 08/03/2018 CCA request sent 24/02/2018.
Defaulted fallen off credit file.
Paragon Personal Finance Ltd / Idem Servicing

Letter sent 01/03/18 Acknowledgement of request of CCA
Letter sent 15/03/18 Unable to supply a copy of Credit Agreement
Letter sent 15/03/18 Transactions list
Letter sent 25/04/18 Received executed copy of agreement & terms and conditions with account statement
Letter sent 11/05/18 Statement in accordance to the consumer credit act 1974
Letter sent 13/09/18 Request for balance to be paid in full

Enforceable paying monthly

[Joanna Connolly Solicitors]

first and the most threatening one at the moment.

MBNA (virgin money) Credit Card
10/03/2010 Date of commencement according to paperwork received
Original Balance £3737.63 PRA takeover 23/10/2012 Current Balance £2776.96 as of 22/11/2018
December 2011 was the last full contractual payment.
April 2012 Started reduced payment DMP
Last Paid anything 8/03/2018 CCA request sent 24/02/2018
Defaulted fallen off credit file
PRA group

Letter sent 3/04/2018 Deeming the account unenforceable
Letter sent 31/07/2018 requesting to get in touch regarding debt, and a copy of credit agreement (was not received, they sent a copy recently because i did not receive)
Letter sent 08/11/2018 please get in touch within 14 days
Letter sent 22/11/2018 This one says that it is a Letter Before Claim

They are not giving me chance to breathe now

*and breathe*

You have 30 days to reply to this Letter Before Claim

Now is the time to do your research.

My first question is are you certain that MBNA assigned the debt to PRA in 2012 and not to another entity such as Aktiv Kapital?

Di

[Rinnie]

Hi Diana Mayhew in response to your question: are you certain that MBNA assigned the debt to PRA in 2012 and not to another entity such as Aktiv Kapital? The answer is yes the debt was assigned to them it was an overlooked piece of information which i just found. I got a letter dated 19/11/2014 they change the name to PRA group on 6th November 2014.

[Joanna Connolly Solicitors]

1st out of 7

MBNA (virgin money) Credit Card
10/03/2010 Date of commencement according to paperwork received
Original Balance £3737.63
PRA takeover 23/10/2012
Current Balance £2776.96 as of 22/11/2018
December 2011 was the last full contractual payment.
April 2012 Started reduced payment DMP
Last Paid anything 8/03/2018 CCA request sent 24/02/2018
Defaulted fallen off credit file
PRA group

Letter sent 3/04/2018 Deeming the account unenforceable
Letter sent 31/07/2018 requesting to get in touch regarding debt, and a copy of credit agreement (was not received, they sent a copy recently because i did not receive)
Letter sent 08/11/2018 please get in touch within 14 days
Letter sent 22/11/2018 This one says that it is a Letter Before Claim

If PRA have sent you a credit agreement, or paperwork purporting to be a credit agreement, then you need to email that to Niddy (Never-In-Doubt) for an opinion on whether it may be unenforceable or not.

Use this email address > webmaster@all-about-debt.co.uk Don't blank anything out because it will be perfectly secure. Put your username in the subject bar, and if possible include a link to this thread.

Or have I misunderstood your post so although you received a second letter from PRA, that didn't include the credit agreement?

We've now established that the debt was assigned by MBNA to Aktiv Kapital before PRA so they would have to prove both assignments which may cause them some difficulty.

Now would be good time to send a Subject Access Request to MBNA (ask if you need a template letter and contact details) so you get the full history of what went on.

As I've said you have 30 days to respond to that Letter Before Claim so keep an eye on the deadline date so you don't miss it. In the meantime the research continues

Di

[Rinnie]

Hi everyone update Halifax and Barclay card, at the moment unenforceable. Tesco is enforceable but that is the one i caved and started paying £2 a month. Have not heard back about the PRA Mbna card yet. Just keeping everything crossed at the moment.