Old Santander Overdraft debt

[Joanna Connolly Solicitors]

Woo Hoo....another weapon in the armoury if need be

Well yes that's two weapons in your armoury, but may I suggest third and fourth potential weapons (Hoist assignment and lack of FCA authorisation issues) > Jo explains that here too >

Both of these companies are not authorised by the Financial Conduct Authority to exercise the rights of a lender. They rely on the para 55 FSMA 2000 servicing exemption.

Their cases, or their predecessors Hoist Portfolio Holding 2 Limited and Hoist Portfolio Holding 2 Limited, rarely reach trial in cases we are involved with. They have not been successful at trial with us.

We look forward to using the same legal arguments in the future against Hoist which we used against Idem Capital Securities Limited in the recent successful FCA authorisation Appeal where the Circuit Judge found that the para 55 FSMA 2000 servicing exemption did not allow the unauthorised debt purchaser to issue proceedings in the county court.

The Hoist companies also have issues with their assignment process and documentation..

Di

[whiplash]

Looking at the history this overdraft debt does appear to be Statute Barred since March 2018.

Even if it isn't, if Hoist start to make a noise you can send a s78 CCA Request since a recent court ruling confirmed that overdrafts are covered by the Act. Jo explains the situation here >




Di

Woo Hoo....another weapon in the armoury if need be Thanks for the info.
Best regards
W

[Joanna Connolly Solicitors]

just an update as a couple more fishing letters received.....no more threats so hopefully they realise this is now well and truly SB. Letters filed.

Looking at the history this overdraft debt does appear to be Statute Barred since March 2018.

Even if it isn't, if Hoist start to make a noise you can send a s78 CCA Request since a recent court ruling confirmed that overdrafts are covered by the Act. Jo explains the situation here >

The claim against our clients in this case was for monies owing under a personal Current Account Overdraft. We lost at first instance before a District Judge in Peterborough County Court and appealed the decision before HHJ Walden-Smith sitting at Cambridge County Court.

The Appeal was successful yesterday. This is an important case because it confirms that consumers using the unenforceability provisions of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 can successfully defend claims for personal Current Account Overdrafts in court. In this instant case the Appeal court found the personal Current Account Overdraft agreement to be unenforceable pursuant to the Consumer Credit Act because of lack of evidence of compliance with the requirements of the OFT determination.

It was also accepted that Creditors must comply with S 78 Consumer Credit Act 1974 requests relating to personal Current Account Overdrafts, not just credit cards and loans. In this case the Appeal court did find that MFS Portfolio Ltd had complied with the S 78 Consumer Credit Act request. If they hadn’t complied with the statutory request then the personal Current Account Overdraft would have been unenforceable pursuant to s.78 (6) (a) Consumer Credit Act , which is contrary to the position creditors normally take.

The court also positively approved of the principle established in a European case ruling we put before the court that it is for the creditor to prove statutory compliance. The court did not approve of the District Judge’s earlier decision in the lower court that our client not recalling something somehow reversed the burden of proof onto our clients and away from the Claimant.

Di

[whiplash]

• Type of account.....Santander Bank overdraft (1)
• Date commenced....23rd April 2010
• Approx balance......£1133.54
• Date last paid.........Nothing paid since at least since 25th Oct 2011
• Are you on arrangement or not paying.......Not paying
• Status ........Default (default notice 16th Feb 2012)
• Account owner....... Hoist HPH2

Arranged Overdraft Limit as of June 2011 £650....
Unauthorised O/D as of June 2011

June 2011-Jan 2012
Total charges for this period £730
Charges then have stopped

Santander have managed to more than double my overdraft Debt over 6 months!!

24/11/11 Letter from Santander stating breach of terms and conditions stating breach of terms and conditions and that banking facilities are stopped.

06/12/11 Letter from Santander stating all banking facilities are about to be removed and demanding immediate payment of unarranged O/D.

15/02/12 Letter from Santander advising me due to breach of terms and conditions a default notice is being sent.

16/02/12 Default notice received with full payment of O/D required within 14 days.

Oct 17- Dec 17 Several letters from Robway asking me to contact them

All Ignored however was receiving advice from Debt helpline who suggested I send a statute barred letter.

29/01/18 Statute barred letter sent recorded delivery as advised by a debt helpline.

30/01/18 Letter of claim received from H Cohen (dated 18/01/18).

08/02/12 Letter from Robway thanking me for responding to the pre action protocol and that I believe the account to be Statute Barred. They advise not SB due to default date being March 12 and a payment was made Sep 12.

This was not a response to the pre action protocol the SB letter was sent before I received the letter of claim!

Then I discovered the brilliant AAD forum!!! (Oh I wish i'd found it earlier)

17/02/18 letter of claim returned with just box D ticked and name printed (not signed) sent special del.

17/02/18 Overdraft letter 1 sent to Robway with copy to H.Cohen sent Special delivery.

17/02/18 SAR request sent to Santander with £10 postal order.

19/02/18 Letter from Santander confirming my SAR request.


27/02/18 Letter from Robway thanking me for my response to the pre action protocol pack, and they have requested the documents specified in my overdraft letter 1. Account on hold until the documents are provided.

11/07/18 Letter from Santander ref my SAR request. They state that based on the info provided (name, current address, previous address and date of birth) they regret they cannot find any data relating to Santander accounts. They state that if their relationship ceased with the customer more than 6 yrs ago they do not retain the information.

05/10/18 Notice of assignment letter from Hoist Finance Uk Holdings 2 ltd stating account now owned by them.

18/10/18 Letter from Robway with documents enclosed as requested by overdraft letter 1 (17/02/18) .

Documents supplied is a copy of original agreement, notice of assignment and a transaction list which proves the payment to this account ( referred to in letter dated 08/02/12), in Sep 12 was a fee refund by Santander NOT ME!!!

08/12/18 Letter from Robway stating this account still outstanding & asking me to contact them to set up a payment plan

27/04/19 Letter from Robway asking me to please contact them.

25/05/19 Letter from Robway offering a reduced settlement.








Hi I am hoping to get some help/advice with regard to an unauthorised overdraft debt incurred with Santander in Sep 2011.
I have been contacted by Robinson Way who has acquired this debt and was threatening legal action to recover this debt.
I contacted A debt helpline and discussed the situation and it was suggested that I send one of their pre formed letters claiming that the debt was statute barred, This was sent to Robinson Way on 29th Jan 2018 recorded delivery.
On the 30th Jan I received a letter of claim from Howard Cohen (dated 18th Jan 2018 must have been delivery by horse & cart)) and to respond by 19th Feb 2018.
I have since received a reply from Robinson Way dated 8th Feb thanking me for my contact in response to the pre action protocol pack ( I have not returned the pre action pack yet),and that they note that I believe this account to be Statute Barred.
They advise that the account is not Statute Barred as the account default date was 23rd March 2012 and that a payment was made on 24th September 2012 ( certainly not by me). They state that the account is now on hold until 26th Feb 2018.
Since sending the Statute Barred letter on 29th Jan 2018 I have discovered a fair amount of paperwork relating to this account, including statements and letters sent from Santander ending with a default notice dated 16th Feb 2012.
I have an idea with regard to this payment that Rob way refer to and this could be a correction of charges applied to the account of £100.00 when they had already stated in an letter in Dec 2011 that they had suspended all charges to the account however they applied a further £100 charge in Jan 2012 for an unarranged overdraft.
Anyone have any advice as to what to do now? should I return the pre action form and what to put? when does an unarranged overdraft become statute barred.
I do have letters stating breach of contract due to non payment on demand of the full amount and cancelling all cards/dd/ and any further use of the account dated 24th nov 2011.
Hoping someone might be able to help me

Hi all just an update as a couple more fishing letters received.....no more threats so hopefully they realise this is now well and truly SB. Letters filed.

[cymruambyth]

Even if it is SB Rob Way often still try and collect or hope that you make a mistake!

[whiplash]

[QUOTE=whiplash;n1517238]SB1.pdf

• Type of account.....Santander Bank overdraft (1)
• Date commenced....23rd April 2010
• Approx balance......£1133.54
• Date last paid.........Nothing paid since at least since 25th Oct 2011
• Are you on arrangement or not paying.......Not paying
• Status ........Default (default notice 16th Feb 2012)
• Account owner....... Hoist HPH2

Arranged Overdraft Limit as of June 2011 £650....
Unauthorised O/D as of June 2011

June 2011-Jan 2012
Total charges for this period £730
Charges then have stopped

Santander have managed to more than double my overdraft Debt over 6 months!!

24/11/11 Letter from Santander stating breach of terms and conditions stating breach of terms and conditions and that banking facilities are stopped.

06/12/11 Letter from Santander stating all banking facilities are about to be removed and demanding immediate payment of unarranged O/D.

15/02/12 Letter from Santander advising me due to breach of terms and conditions a default notice is being sent.

16/02/12 Default notice received with full payment of O/D required within 14 days.

Oct 17- Dec 17 Several letters from Robway asking me to contact them

All Ignored however was receiving advice from Debt helpline who suggested I send a statute barred letter.

29/01/18 Statute barred letter sent recorded delivery as advised by a debt helpline.

30/01/18 Letter of claim received from H Cohen (dated 18/01/18).

08/02/12 Letter from Robway thanking me for responding to the pre action protocol and that I believe the account to be Statute Barred. They advise not SB due to default date being March 12 and a payment was made Sep 12.

This was not a response to the pre action protocol the SB letter was sent before I received the letter of claim!

Then I discovered the brilliant AAD forum!!! (Oh I wish i'd found it earlier)

17/02/18 letter of claim returned with just box D ticked and name printed (not signed) sent special del.

17/02/18 Overdraft letter 1 sent to Robway with copy to H.Cohen sent Special delivery.

17/02/18 SAR request sent to Santander with £10 postal order.

19/02/18 Letter from Santander confirming my SAR request.


27/02/18 Letter from Robway thanking me for my response to the pre action protocol pack, and they have requested the documents specified in my overdraft letter 1. Account on hold until the documents are provided.

11/07/18 Letter from Santander ref my SAR request. They state that based on the info provided (name, current address, previous address and date of birth) they regret they cannot find any data relating to Santander accounts. They state that if their relationship ceased with the customer more than 6 yrs ago they do not retain the information.

05/10/18 Notice of assignment letter from Hoist Finance Uk Holdings 2 ltd stating account now owned by them.

18/10/18 Letter from Robway with documents enclosed as requested by overdraft letter 1 (17/02/18) .

Documents supplied is a copy of original agreement, notice of assignment and a transaction list which proves the payment to this account ( referred to in letter dated 08/02/12), in Sep 12 was a fee refund by Santander NOT ME!!!

08/12/18 Letter from Robway stating account still outstanding & to contact them to set up a payment plan.



Here is a copy of the SB letter sent on 29/01/18 on advice from National Debtline.....DOH!.... before I discovered AAD, the letter sent was not signed just a typed name.....Am hoping this did not reset the SB clock.


SB1.pdf




Hi all hopefully this might help save having to look through all posts. Have also updated first post relating to this account! let me know what peeps think? is this how it should be?
Regards
W

Hi to all sorry for the delay in posting this update....
Letter received from Robway 8/12/18 stating account still outstanding & to contact them & set up a payment plan, no threats of legal action this time.....maybe they have realised it is a SB debt.
I have just filed it and nothing more received since.
Best regards
W

[Roger]

Well Done! The AAD Diary approach makes it so much easier for yourself and the MODS.

[whiplash]

SB1.pdf [QUOTE=whiplash;n1507728]

• Type of account.....Santander Bank overdraft (1)
• Date commenced....23rd April 2010
• Approx balance......£1133.54
• Date last paid.........Nothing paid since at least since 25th Oct 2011
• Are you on arrangement or not paying.......Not paying
• Status ........Default (default notice 16th Feb 2012)
• Account owner....... Hoist HPH2

Arranged Overdraft Limit as of June 2011 £650....
Unauthorised O/D as of June 2011

June 2011-Jan 2012
Total charges for this period £730
Charges then have stopped

Santander have managed to more than double my overdraft Debt over 6 months!!

24/11/11 Letter from Santander stating breach of terms and conditions stating breach of terms and conditions and that banking facilities are stopped.

06/12/11 Letter from Santander stating all banking facilities are about to be removed and demanding immediate payment of unarranged O/D.

15/02/12 Letter from Santander advising me due to breach of terms and conditions a default notice is being sent.

16/02/12 Default notice received with full payment of O/D required within 14 days.

Oct 17- Dec 17 Several letters from Robway asking me to contact them

All Ignored however was receiving advice from Debt helpline who suggested I send a statute barred letter.

29/01/18 Statute barred letter sent recorded delivery as advised by a debt helpline.

30/01/18 Letter of claim received from H Cohen (dated 18/01/18).

08/02/12 Letter from Robway thanking me for responding to the pre action protocol and that I believe the account to be Statute Barred. They advise not SB due to default date being March 12 and a payment was made Sep 12.

This was not a response to the pre action protocol the SB letter was sent before I received the letter of claim!

Then I discovered the brilliant AAD forum!!! (Oh I wish i'd found it earlier)

17/02/18 letter of claim returned with just box D ticked and name printed (not signed) sent special del.

17/02/18 Overdraft letter 1 sent to Robway with copy to H.Cohen sent Special delivery.

17/02/18 SAR request sent to Santander with £10 postal order.

19/02/18 Letter from Santander confirming my SAR request.


27/02/18 Letter from Robway thanking me for my response to the pre action protocol pack, and they have requested the documents specified in my overdraft letter 1. Account on hold until the documents are provided.

11/07/18 Letter from Santander ref my SAR request. They state that based on the info provided (name, current address, previous address and date of birth) they regret they cannot find any data relating to Santander accounts. They state that if their relationship ceased with the customer more than 6 yrs ago they do not retain the information.

05/10/18 Notice of assignment letter from Hoist Finance Uk Holdings 2 ltd stating account now owned by them.

18/10/18 Letter from Robway with documents enclosed as requested by overdraft letter 1 (17/02/18) .

Documents supplied is a copy of original agreement, notice of assignment and a transaction list which proves the payment to this account ( referred to in letter dated 08/02/12), in Sep 12 was a fee refund by Santander NOT ME!!!

08/12/18 Letter from Robway stating account still outstanding & to contact them to set up a payment plan.



Letter sent on 29/01/18 on advice from National Debtline.....DOH!.... before I discovered AAD, the letter sent was not signed just a typed name.....Am hoping this did not reset the SB clock




Hi all hopefully this might help save having to look through all posts. Have also updated first post relating to this account! let me know what peeps think? is this how it should be?
Regards
W

[whiplash]

Hi Di thank you for that.....will just wait and see what happens.....I had thought i'd done all of my posts correctly however i understand now my layout has made it difficult to see the full history without having to read through all of the posts.....sorry.....should I correct this to make life easier for all?....could you point me to a thread that is laid out correctly.
Best regards
W

[Joanna Connolly Solicitors]

• Type of account.....Santander Bank overdraft (1)
• Date commenced....23rd April 2010
• Approx balance......£1133.54
• Date last paid.........Nothing paid since at least since 25th Oct 2011
• Are you on arrangement or not paying.......Not paying
• Status ........Default (default notice 16th Feb 2012)
• Account owner....... Hoist HPH2

. . . . On the 30th Jan I received a letter of claim from Howard Cohen dated 18th Jan 2018

I can't find the full history of this account in one post so it's difficult to comment, but I have noticed that you received a Letter Before Claim from Howard Cohen in January 2018.

Since then you say your account has been assigned to a 'different' Hoist from the one which owned the debt at that point.

I expect this means that if the new Hoist wanted to commence legal proceedings then the new debt owner would have to send you a new Letter Before Claim.

I can't guarantee they'll do that but if/when they do (having instructed Howard Cohen) you can tick Box D stating that you dispute the debt because it is Statute Barred.

Di

[whiplash]

Hi Di have sent a copy of the agreement they have supplied to Niddy.....I will sit tight for now & post if I hear anything else, & as you say the letter states that they may! Take further action.... Rob way did state in a letter in March 18 that the debt was not statute barred as a payment had been made to the account in Sep 18....The statements they have provided me prove that it was a fee refund from Santander not me!.... Therefore I believe this became SB in March 18 (as per default notice dated March 12 which I have).... My credit file also had this default date and dropped off my file in April/May 18.
I do also have a formal demand for full repayment of the overdraft balance dated Nov 11.
As you say the SB can be argued so keeping them at bay for as long as possible seems to be the way to go.
Best regards
W

Hi all Niddy says as it's an overdraft different rules apply so just to blag it ignore them.
Regards
W

[whiplash]

Same entry twice.... Sorry
W

[whiplash]

Hi
Just a thought and maybe expert advice is needed to double check

Although Santander issued a DN , did they actually recall the O/D and make a formal demand for payment ? This could impact the SB date

I know from experience Satander sent me several DN's even though I did not remedy any of them.

I think what I am saying is try to keep a low profile for as long as humanly possible

Hi Warwick.... Yes I have got a formal demand for full repayment of the overdraft dated Oct/Nov 11. The default notice (which I have. . dated March 12). Backed up by same date on credit file (which I have kept a copy of) The only thing I couldn't prove was this payment in Sep 12 (as Santander's response to my SAR request was they couldn't find anything). What a surprise when Rob way also sent me a transaction list which includes this payment in Sep 12 and as suspected it was a fee refund from Santander!! not a payment by me! to Rob way

As said in my reply to Di... I will keep a low profile for as long as possible.
Best regards
W

[whiplash]

Ask yourself whether you need to respond to that letter from Robinson Way.

From what you say the only threat in that letter is that your account may be referred to Howard Cohen who may be instructed to take court action.

If Howard Cohen solicitors are instructed then under the new debt Pre-Action Protocol (since 1st October 2017) they should send you a Letter Before Claim giving you 30 days notice of their intention to issue a claim so you can respond accordingly.

If Hoist (via Robinson Way) have produced a credit agreement then I suggest you send that document to Niddy for an opinion on its enforceability..

I admit I haven't looked back at the full history of this debt but beware of acknowledging a soon-to-be Statute Barred debt . (The SB date can be argued).

Di

Hi Di have sent a copy of the agreement they have supplied to Niddy.....I will sit tight for now & post if I hear anything else, & as you say the letter states that they may! Take further action.... Rob way did state in a letter in March 18 that the debt was not statute barred as a payment had been made to the account in Sep 18....The statements they have provided me prove that it was a fee refund from Santander not me!.... Therefore I believe this became SB in March 18 (as per default notice dated March 12 which I have).... My credit file also had this default date and dropped off my file in April/May 18.
I do also have a formal demand for full repayment of the overdraft balance dated Nov 11.
As you say the SB can be argued so keeping them at bay for as long as possible seems to be the way to go.
Best regards
W

[Warwick65]

Hi
Just a thought and maybe expert advice is needed to double check

Although Santander issued a DN , did they actually recall the O/D and make a formal demand for payment ? This could impact the SB date

I know from experience Satander sent me several DN's even though I did not remedy any of them.

I think what I am saying is try to keep a low profile for as long as humanly possible