F & F Settlement Offer Accepted - what next?

[Never-In-Doubt]

Re: F & F Settlement Offer Accepted - what next?

Totally agree, snap their hand off if you can really afford it.

Also, as its been mentioned they will mark it as settled with a comment underneath, it should be pointed out that you, too, can add your own comment in response. I doubt in reality these comments carry much weight when someone is looking at your credit history, but the intention of the law is that it gives you chance to respond / explain, and for completeness sake you should be made aware of this.

Noooo mate - never add a NOC to your credit file as this forces all applications to credit into manual review (ie an underwriter manually assesses the application) - however as explained in the past, if you do not have an NOC then after a couple of years the automated process that is credit scoring *may* not count the default, thus meaning you may get accepted whereas a manual intervention generally results in a decline due to the risk element...

In layman, if you apply to say M&S - they ask for your last 2yrs address history meaning they ONLY perform a part-credit search meaning it will look back the last 2yrs. If the last 2yrs are clean/look good then they may approve you. If you apply to most other places, it is 3yrs of addresses they ask for thus they only search 3 years. 1st Direct and some other "better" banks do/did ask for 5 years address history to get a better search but I understand 4 years is the maximum address history requested now.

Again, bear in mind it is a cost issue as a FULL 6 year search costs a lender (approximately) £5 (Equifax), £8 (Experian) & £3 (Callcredit) but 50% reduction if they do a part search, ie last 3 years etc....

Make sense?

[caspar]

Re: F & F Settlement Offer Accepted - what next?

Perfect sense. Apologies - you can do it, but is obviously not advisable for reasons stated above. My mistake!

[Never-In-Doubt]

Re: F & F Settlement Offer Accepted - what next?

Perfect sense. Apologies - you can do it, but is obviously not advisable for reasons stated above. My mistake!

Ok, it's not an error matey - a good way to describe when you WOULD add a NOC is say you're now in debt, and you know it aint gonna get any better, well if you have a couple of live accounts that are not in default and you wanted to keep them (ie bank/1 credit card/mobile etc) then you could add a NOC disputing the erroneous "bad"entries to stop your existing creditors calling in their risk, ie reducing the limit right down once they get the CRA data feed.

If a lender performs monthly feeds (two way provide and receive) the NOC stops the automated process thus meaning they actually don't see the derogatory data UNLESS they do an account review and manually assess things (they all do this once a year anyway)....

Hope that helps to explain it a bit better....

[Lakeside1]

Re: F & F Settlement Offer Accepted - what next?

Hi All,

I just wanted to give an up to date position on my Cap 1 short settlement.

Well, I've paid over the £2500 and they have written to confirm that my account is closed and no further action will be taken to recover the balance. They also reiterate that a partial settlement will show with the CRAs.

In separate written correspondence with a Dept Manager it was confirmed that provided they received the agreed amount by the due date they:

a) would not be registering any defaults relating to my account.
b) my liability to make further payments would be removed.

I think I have enough down on paper from them to feel confident that they wouldn't (couldn't?) renege on this and sell the balance to a DCA or register a default. Or at least if they do, I have enough to challenge it immediately via FOS.

It will be interesting to see how my CRA records look in the next couple of months. Experian (Credit Expert) don't seem to display a 'delinquent balance' - they just show account balance and account status (e.g. satisfactory / settled etc) and any overdue monthly payment status. I've no doubt Cap 1 will follow through and show Partial Settlement but am wondering what the account balance will show. Equifax on the other hand do show a delinquent balance amount so same applies there - it'll be interesting to see what, if any, balance shows after Cap 1 update the CRAs and how it's categorised.

I do have 2 further questions if anyone is able to help - 1 factual and the other hypothetical.

At the time I was negotiating a partial settlement (in May) Cap 1 agreed to freeze all interest and payments on my account to zero, effective July (I have this in writing from them). I actually made a token payment of £1 to them for July, so effectively overpaying? As at June the CRAs were showing my account to be 4 months overdue. The July monthly status with the CRAs is now showing 5 months overdue. My question is..... is this status correct? Surely as they had reduced the payments to nil, no payment was required for July and therefore it cannot be shown as further overdue / not paid?

Secondly (hypothetical scenario) - the partial settlement has been concluded and I've met my part of the requirement by paying them agreed amount by agreed date. So to use their 2 separate forms of words:
- no further action will be taken to recover the balance
- my liability to make further payments has been removed.

If I wrote to them in a couple of months offering to make a further payment of (enter a 'worthwhile' sum here) against the account, in exchange for removal of any detrimental data on the CRAs (i.e. partial settlement marker) - what do you think are the chances of them accepting? Would they take a 'business' view and see it as money for old rope and an opportunity to bring extra coffers in?

Would love to get your views.

TIA

Lakeside

[garlok]

Re: F & F Settlement Offer Accepted - what next?

How many times to I have to say this. These settlements have NOTHING to do with CCA Statute Law. You have no protections written down at all this is COMMON LAW OF CONTRACT and every case will stand or fall on its own merits.
This is expensive VERY expensive litigation if it all goes tits up, like start around 5 to 10K just to get the barrister briefed and you may not win and even if you do win you may not be awarded costs.

This deal they have now confirmed is a fantastic deal for a first time around without legal representation. Take it (snatch their hand off) and walk away. Why on earth would you want to rake up an old debt which is dead and buried. the recorded data at CRAs (supported fully by McGuffick and others in the higher courts even more expensive!!) is that they can record the true facts of the situation with the CRAs and the true facts here are that you have only paid off part of the debt. Even with what you have in your habd it is perfectly possible for them to sell off the outstanding balances and although you would win in any circumstance IMHO you would still have all the hassle to deal with and always remember court is a lottery and you might just might lose which would at the very least bankrupt you.

With these matters there is always a trade off and a poor CRA file is the lesser of many evils.

regards
Garlok

[Never-In-Doubt]

Re: F & F Settlement Offer Accepted - what next?

If I wrote to them in a couple of months offering to make a further payment of (enter a 'worthwhile' sum here) against the account, in exchange for removal of any detrimental data on the CRAs (i.e. partial settlement marker) - what do you think are the chances of them accepting? Would they take a 'business' view and see it as money for old rope and an opportunity to bring extra coffers in?

Ermmm, I'll quote my last view on this which remains, and which will happen:

You can ask for a full settlement marker buy they'll decline as it wasn't a true reflection of the account.

Remember mcguffick - lenders will not budge. They report the facts (when it suits them) and never remove entries unless you really got em by the balls, which your fight doesn't.

You're missing one key thing here, this account is NOW CLOSED! You ring in a few months asking about paying they'll say "sorry this account is settled" - which legally it is. The entries on your credit file will remain, you can offer £10k and it'd still remain as it was a true reflection of how you run your account.

You need to stop worrying about your credit file, why does preservation mean so much to you? Its nuts, its a load of old shyte that is owned by the banks and used against you by the same, banks! Basically, do what you gotta do but for crying out loud, don't worry about your credit file.... it's gonna get trashed, accept it and sit tight for a couple of years which by then should mean everything is back to normal again.

[Lakeside1]

Re: F & F Settlement Offer Accepted - what next?

How many times to I have to say this. These settlements have NOTHING to do with CCA Statute Law. You have no protections written down at all this is COMMON LAW OF CONTRACT and every case will stand or fall on its own merits.
This is expensive VERY expensive litigation if it all goes tits up, like start around 5 to 10K just to get the barrister briefed and you may not win and even if you do win you may not be awarded costs.

This deal they have now confirmed is a fantastic deal for a first time around without legal representation. Take it (snatch their hand off) and walk away. Why on earth would you want to rake up an old debt which is dead and buried. the recorded data at CRAs (supported fully by McGuffick and others in the higher courts even more expensive!!) is that they can record the true facts of the situation with the CRAs and the true facts here are that you have only paid off part of the debt. Even with what you have in your habd it is perfectly possible for them to sell off the outstanding balances and although you would win in any circumstance IMHO you would still have all the hassle to deal with and always remember court is a lottery and you might just might lose which would at the very least bankrupt you.

With these matters there is always a trade off and a poor CRA file is the lesser of many evils.

regards
Garlok

Yes Garlok, I fully understand that F&F settlements largely come under the auspices of Contract Law and the CCA does not lend itself to the process. I've also read many (perhaps most) of the threads where you say that each case will stand or fall on its own merits. I understand this too.

Yes, you're absolutely correct to say that even with what I have in my hand, it is possible that a lender could still renege and sell the debt to a DCA and it is further possible that this would ultimately need to be settled in the courts. However, for you to say that there are no protections in this scenario paints a far grimmer picture than is the reality in a lot of cases. The FOS doesn't turn around to complainants and say "sorry chum, this is a contract law issue..." I know that there are varied views on the effectivness of the FOS, but do you seriously think that where a lender has twice put in writing, using two different forms of words, that they are not going to pursue a balance - the FOS would have no sway or wouldn't intervene if the lender decided to do an about-face???

Garlok, if I'm completely frank, whilst all of your write-ups on the subject are hugely informative and a massive help to anyone wanting to get to grips with settlements - some of them really do paint the grimmest pictures of likely failure that suggest 9 times in 10 it ends up in the courts, if people could afford it If I'm honest - a lot of people are likely to be put off considering it (negotiating settlement) as an option. I almost was.

Above, you talk about my own circumstances being a fantastic deal for a first time around without legal representation. I don't disagree that it's worked out well, but at no time has it felt like I need to get a brief involved... Who knows, you may be right; I've got my letter saying thank you for your £2500 cheque - the next one may come saying "now where's the rest?" To be honest; I don't think it will - but if it does, I know I've done as much as I can do to understand and capture in writing what their intentions were when negotiating with me. If I didn't get it - I wouldn't have fulfilled on the offer. If they did come chasing - I'd be on to FOS quicker than Amy Winehouse can say, "mine's a double". Like so much in life, there's an element of risk, but all risk is also attached to a probability. Trick is, doing as much as you can do to get as many favourable cards as you can to reduce the probability of them taking you for a mug (e.g. third party payment etc).

Yes, the starting position should always be to treat the lenders as unscrupulous chancers who are as likely to bite your @rse as shake your hand. That's a given. However my advice would be

- Make sure settlement is the best / right option for your circumstances (i.e. UE route explored or discounted etc).
- Go in with your eyes wide open.
- Have a full understanding of what your own position is and will be going forward (i.e. can you afford it, what is your credit report likely to look like afterwards - (and can you live with it) etc).
- Get a clear picture on what it is they are negotiating on and get it in writing.
- All things considered, work out what the worst case outcome will be and ask yourself whether that's acceptable to you.
- If anything about the deal or the potential outcomes doesn't look, feel or smell right - walk away.

If after doing all of the above, you still have all of your ducks in a row - then settlement is a very real option. Fact is, short, partial and f&f settlements are a very very very common feature of dealing with lenders nowadays - particularly for those in financial difficulties. If it works for you; don't be put off by all the doom and gloom.

[Never-In-Doubt]

Re: F & F Settlement Offer Accepted - what next?

if I'm completely frank, whilst all of your write-ups on the subject are hugely informative and a massive help to anyone wanting to get to grips with settlements - some of them really do paint the grimmest pictures of likely failure that suggest 9 times in 10 it ends up in the courts, if people could afford it If I'm honest - a lot of people are likely to be put off considering it (negotiating settlement) as an option. I almost was.

Because all F&F payments are grim, only do it as a last resort before court action. I think in general what is being emphasised here is the fact that you should protect yourself and ensure the wording is satisfactory and that you're happy with any possible deal and then ONLY when you're 100% happy do you release the funds, however be careful as not all lenders follow the rules and so although it may appear to be closed, they may sell the balance 5 years later and you'll then have to drag it all up again.

I think you're reading slightly too much into the discussion, sit back and think along the lines of "what if - in worse case scenario"......

I would urge people, in my opinion, never to make F&F unless you'd been hit with a court claim and/or was going to within the immediate future......

Well done on your case, but bear in mind we've also seen the bad turn ugly and that is what we need to protect against......

[Lakeside1]

Re: F & F Settlement Offer Accepted - what next?

I agree Niddy, a trashed credit file for a period of time is the likeliest outcome. I sat and thought about this before I pressed on with settlement, though I'll be honest and say that it was one of the stickiest points for me. A poor credit file means a restriction on job opportunities but having gone through the thought process, it wasn't a deal-breaker.

That said, having a cleaner credit record would be a nice-to-have and in that sense, my post was a case of my thinking aloud in terms of - "I wonder if they would entertain X....." Who knows, the next post may be "I've done exactly this and drew a blank" or "I've done it and it worked".

The whole forum is coming together as a fantastic knowledge base around the financial industry's processes and what does and doesn't work and what happens out there. Surely the only way to get the answers is to ask the questions - (be that asking the rest of the forum or taking a punt and trying something on with a lender)?

[Lakeside1]

Re: F & F Settlement Offer Accepted - what next?

p.s. any views on the correctness of the July payment status? ;D

[garlok]

Re: F & F Settlement Offer Accepted - what next?

Sorry Lakeside but we have been there and done it. As Niddy has said there are many many cases where things have turned up badly and the only way out has been either to capitulate fully or find a solicitor or barrister to take the case. No one is trying to paint a grim picture, but unless you are totally realistic with all of this you will eventually end up in trouble and your proposal to try and pay for a removal of adverse data shows frankly a misunderstanding of even the basics.

I know for a fact due to private correspondence both on here and elsewhere that most High Street practices, even big ones, will no longer touch F & F settlements and the Court of Appeal has ruled that deals done by lawyers are different in law to those done by clients and creditors direct. Even ours done by lawyers came back and idiots tried to bite us and it took the threat of six figure legal action and five figure claims for legal costs to see it off.


Garlok

[Never-In-Doubt]

Re: F & F Settlement Offer Accepted - what next?

I agree Niddy, a trashed credit file for a period of time is the likeliest outcome. I sat and thought about this before I pressed on with settlement, though I'll be honest and say that it was one of the stickiest points for me. A poor credit file means a restriction on job opportunities but having gone through the thought process, it wasn't a deal-breaker.

Do you work in a finance or banking related job, or intend on becoming a lawyer, accountant or civil servant? If not your credit file will not affect you, if anyone questions it within employment (excluding these careers) you simply tell the truth and explain you are checking the validity and enforceability of the agreements which is your right under the consumer credit act. Therefore it cannot and will not affect mainstream jobs, I have proof of this with one poster that had that exact problem - was pulled in for it, explained the UE process and they let it go. Point is, you are entitled to utilise anything at your disposal to get the info you want and cessation of payment is sometimes the last option.......

See, I've already convinced you right?

[Never-In-Doubt]

Re: F & F Settlement Offer Accepted - what next?

Surely the only way to get the answers is to ask the questions - (be that asking the rest of the forum or taking a punt and trying something on with a lender)?

Well funny you ask this, weird as it is no - it's not a good idea as it could create precedent which affects everyone in a negative manner.

Note the use of DCA wording there, "could".....

As I say, we need to protect ourselves and part of this is protecting others and our fight as a whole by not doing a Rankine......

[Lakeside1]

Re: F & F Settlement Offer Accepted - what next?

Do you work in a finance or banking related job, or intend on becoming a lawyer, accountant or civil servant? If not your credit file will not affect you, if anyone questions it within employment you simply tell the truth and explain you are checking the validity and enforceability of the agreements which is your right under the consumer credit act. Therefore it cannot and will not affect mainstream jobs, I have proof of this with one poster that had that exact problem - was pulled in for it, explained the UE process and they let it go. Point is, you are entitled to utilise anything at your disposal to get the info you want and cessation of payment is sometimes the last option.......

See, I've already convinced you right?

You have. lol.

[Never-In-Doubt]

Re: F & F Settlement Offer Accepted - what next?

p.s. any views on the correctness of the July payment status? ;D

can you quote or ask the question again please.....?