CCAs and Settlements

[Joanna Connolly Solicitors]

Thanks Di,
Fully expecting PRA to chase and surprised they haven’t

Maybe you expect PRA to chase you because you've been told that the credit agreement is enforceable based on the documents they've produced (so far).

Maybe it is, and maybe it isn't.

A section 78 CCA Request is for 'information' purposes not 'proof' purposes so even if the documents produced satisfy s 78 CCA Request that doesn't necessarily mean the debt is enforceable. The legal bar is higher for the next stage.

In the case of Santander v Diana Mayhew (me ) I lost on s 78 CCA but won on other legal arguments pleaded.

Take a look at Paragraph 14 of my Judgment here >

https://www.bailii.org/ew/cases/Misc/2012/14.html

And then read Paragraph 15 which says the claim was dismissed and they had to pay my legal costs.

Di

[Greybeard]

Thanks Di,
Fully expecting PRA to chase and surprised they haven’t but I guess it’s just going to be a waiting game.

[Joanna Connolly Solicitors]

I'm thinking I'll just ignore these three debts until they decide to contact me.

PRA looks to have provided all the info under the cca request but have not contacted me since.

Moorcroft have sent statements but said they can't provide a credit agreement

Link have just sent statements and no credit agreements.

I think that makes sense

If no one is chasing you then let sleeping dogs lie.

Di

[Greybeard]

Hi, any advice on how to proceed?

I'm thinking I'll just ignore these three debts until they decide to contact me.

PRA looks to have provided all the info under the cca request but have not contacted me since.

Moorcroft have sent statements but said they can't provide a credit agreement

Link have just sent statements and no credit agreements.

On a plus note, just recieved £165 cheque from Lloyds refunding charges and interest on another account that I settled.

[Greybeard]

Are you any good at playing poker

Was the MBNA debt assigned direct to PRA or was it assigned to Aktiv Kapital first? Does the name Experto Credite mean anything to you with this debt. PRA have been known to have assignment issues.

They took me to court last year and lost >




Di

Well done on your win vs PRA!

It was assigned to Aktiv Kapital first but the name Experto Credite doesn't mean anything.

If you think there may be assignment issues there then I would guess that may be the same for the Barclaycard/Goldfish acc as Goldfish was bought out by Barclays who then sold to Link Financial.

also the Halifax acc was sold to Sigma Red before being sold to Lowell.

What is the relevance of the pre/post 2007 date? seen it mentioned a few times in other posts

[Joanna Connolly Solicitors]

would be nice if they all run up the white flag!!

NO DCA is chasing me

Are you any good at playing poker

Was the MBNA debt assigned direct to PRA or was it assigned to Aktiv Kapital first? Does the name Experto Credite mean anything to you with this debt. PRA have been known to have assignment issues.

They took me to court last year and lost >

‘“RECONSTITUTED AGREEMENT” – IRREDEEMABLY UNENFORCEABLE”

“UNREDACTED DEEDS OF ASSIGNMENT – NO ASSIGMENT PROVED”

So, held Recorder Bellamy in

PRA Group (UK) Limited v Mayhew

at Central London County Court on 22nd March 2017, at the end of a 3 day multi track trial, when dismissing PRA’s claim against our client.

Stale debts sued for on the back of 2 ‘reconstituted’ MBNA credit card agreements (May 1999 and October 2000) were held irredeemably unenforceable under CCA 1974. The evidence of an honest witness was preferred to that of so called “reconstituted agreements”.

After 3 days of close forensic examination of, and legal argument about, evidence and documents from both PRA and MBNA stating that our client’s specific debt had been assigned, the court held that no assignment had been proved.

Efforts, over many months, in earlier cases to force PRA into disclosure of un-redacted deeds and deep and sustained forensic challenge to the provenance of documents needed to prove regulatory compliance, finally drew back the veil. The reality behind bulk debt purchasing was revealed.

This decision shows that just saying an agreement is enforceable and producing a “reconstituted” copy does not prove that it is enforceable. Just saying an agreement has been assigned and producing a notice saying it has been assigned does not prove legal assignment.

Debt purchasers need to provide proof. If that means the pitifully few pence in the pound they pay for stale debts will increase because banks will now have to start keeping original evidence complying with regulatory consumer protection measures, it is hard to imagine many tears being shed, outside the City of London.

Di

[Greybeard]

so what do you want to achieve? but nobody can really give advice with only a small amount of information, that is why you are asked at this stage to up date diary with upto date info for a full picture and possible way forward, of course it is up to you?

Hi, I updated the original posts with the creditor details. What other info would be useful?

At this stage I'm really just looking to clear off the debt asap so Yes I could just accept the offers but knowing that the debts were bought for so little and that they are making a huge profit off of me makes me want to try and negotiate better deals, presumably if the debts are UE then that gives me leverage.

[The Tech Clerk]

so what do you want to achieve? but nobody can really give advice with only a small amount of information, that is why you are asked at this stage to up date diary with upto date info for a full picture and possible way forward, of course it is up to you?

[Greybeard]

It would be really helpful if you could add/edit the posts to include the name of the original creditor and the DCA since they all do things differently.

For example there are some who are likely to issue a claim regardless if you stop paying, and there are others who will run up a white flag and close the account and write off the balance if they cannot comply with your CCA Request.

Also I notice that you've said a 'DCA' is currently chasing you, but looking at the brief history is there a possibility that the credit card accounts have been assigned to a debt purchaser? A Debt Collection Agency doesn't own debts, they simply act as agents for the debt owner.

Di

Updated details, would be nice if they all run up the white flag!!

NO DCA is chasing me, all payments through stepchange are up to date with no missed payments.

[Joanna Connolly Solicitors]

It would be really helpful if you could add/edit the posts to include the name of the original creditor and the DCA since they all do things differently.

For example there are some who are likely to issue a claim regardless if you stop paying, and there are others who will run up a white flag and close the account and write off the balance if they cannot comply with your CCA Request.

Also I notice that you've said a 'DCA' is currently chasing you, but looking at the brief history is there a possibility that the credit card accounts have been assigned to a debt purchaser? A Debt Collection Agency doesn't own debts, they simply act as agents for the debt owner.

Di

[Greybeard]

• MBNA Credit Card
• 2009
• 3K
• 2012
• DMP £30/mth
• Defaulted (over 6 years)
• PRA

05/02/19 CCA requested
05/02/19 All PAYMENTS STOPPED
14/02/19 Statements received
25/02/19 Copy of credit agreement received which Niddy says is enforceable. Letter asked for me to make contact within 10 days but have so far ignored it and no contact has been received from them either which is interesting as they would appear to have provided everything under the CCA request.

29/04/19 Still not heard anything from PRA and have not paid anything for 2 months now.

09/09/19 LBC received

[Greybeard]

• Barclaycard/Goldfish Credit Card
• 2005
• 7K
• 2012
• DMP £70/mth
• Defaulted (over 6 years)
• Link

05/02/19 CCA requested
05/02/19 All PAYMENTS STOPPED
29/03/19 Received 12 letters! with a statement for a 6 month period in each to cover the last 6 years.
29/04/19 No further contact and no credit agreement received
02/10/19 Letter received from Link saying Barclaycard have confirmed they are unable to comply with CCA request so currently

[Greybeard]

• Halifax Credit Card
• 1991
• 9K
• 2012
• DMP £80/mth
• Defaulted (over 6 years)
• Lowell-managed by Moorcroft Debt Recovery

05/02/19 CCA request sent
05/02/19 All PAYMENTS STOPPED
29/04/19 Letter received from Moorcroft stating that Lowell are unable to provide a copy of credit agreement so that's a bonus! They're asking me to call them to arrange a payment plan though because they believe the outstanding balance to be 'correctly due'.
Filed and ignored

[Greybeard]

Hello

A debt can only be defaulted once, so if these debts have been defaulted and the accounts have fallen off your CRA files (because six years has lapsed from the default date) then they will not reappear.

I believe that negotiation is best conducted from a position of strength so send the CCA Requests and see what comes back. If a debt is unenforceable then you can decide then if you want to make an offer or stop paying them altogether.

Di

Thanks,

Yes I'm aware of the 6 year rule, just don't want to now risk CCJs albeit a fair way off before getting to that point.

Does not submitting CCAs just set the alarm bells ringing at the DCAs, they must know what's on my mind and will try anything to keep the money rolling in.

If the CCAs come back as UE then what would be the next steps?

[Joanna Connolly Solicitors]

Sat here with CCA letters in hand and can't decide if I should go that route or just pay off the debts?

Would replies from CCAs that were UE give me a chance of getting better settlement offers?

. . . Don't want to risk trashing my credit file again as looking to remortgage.

Hello

A debt can only be defaulted once, so if these debts have been defaulted and the accounts have fallen off your CRA files (because six years has lapsed from the default date) then they will not reappear.

I believe that negotiation is best conducted from a position of strength so send the CCA Requests and see what comes back. If a debt is unenforceable then you can decide then if you want to make an offer or stop paying them altogether.

Di