Default Charges in agreements & contracts

[mystery1]

Re: Default Charges in agreements & contracts

Does anyone know if we can use
Supreme Court of New South Wales - Court of Appeal



in UK? maybe Paul will know...

Incorporation of terms

If a foreign case is of use to you then yes you can use it.

McGuffick is English and Welsh case law I.E. Foreign to us Scots. It can be used in Scots law as a persuasive case. The court is not bound by it. Same principle applies in England and Wales.

Sharia law judgements, as mentioned on this thread, can be used to persuade a Judge in England but is unlikely to help with a matter of STATUTE as it differs vastly. It can help with interpretation.


http://www.publications.parliament.u...0721/son-2.htm

M1

[transformer999]

Re: Default Charges in agreements & contracts

Thanks mystery1 I will have a look at what you have attached

I think you got the Wales mixed up...this Wales is in Austrailia

[Never-In-Doubt]

Re: Default Charges in agreements & contracts

If a foreign case is of use to you then yes you can use it.

court is not bound by it.

Thus back to the same old argument, why try and be a clever dick in front of a judge when clearly they will not be bound by it nor will they even have to acknowledge it?

Kinda like going off on a tangent, to find the judge says "forget it" - ie waste of hard work and effort.

My argument here is quite simple really, in theory and context, there is absolutely no reason or benefit in trying to force a foreign legal precedent or otherwise through our courts cos our judges won't be entertained - come on, can you imagine it!

Similarly, if you have to resort to a foreign law or precedent then that suggests it's not common here in the UK, ask yourself - why? Do you wanna be a guinnea pig? Well it worked for a certain Mr Harrison so good luck if you do decide to use it....

[garlok]

Re: Default Charges in agreements & contracts

Thanks Niddy,

I was just thinking about something else as an example. Doing this can work against you and work against you in a serious way. The example which comes to mind is the Bracken v Billinghurst case law which is now the overarching overriding case law in the Full and Final settlement area and the encashment fo third party cheques/payments. This case refers directly in its judgement to Fletcher Moulton LJ in the CoA. A case known as Hirchand Punanchand (& others) v Temple. In which a clever Empire citizen tried to bring Capt David Temple to book over a debt incurred in india 1911 I think in an English court. Punanchand LOST in a big way and paved the way for F & Fs as we know them.

Hence being "clever" in front of a judge just does not pay.

regards
Garlok

[mystery1]

Re: Default Charges in agreements & contracts

Thus back to the same old argument, why try and be a clever dick in front of a judge when clearly they will not be bound by it nor will they even have to acknowledge it?

Kinda like going off on a tangent, to find the judge says "forget it" - ie waste of hard work and effort.

My argument here is quite simple really, in theory and context, there is absolutely no reason or benefit in trying to force a foreign legal precedent or otherwise through our courts cos our judges won't be entertained - come on, can you imagine it!

Similarly, if you have to resort to a foreign law or precedent then that suggests it's not common here in the UK, ask yourself - why? Do you wanna be a guinnea pig? Well it worked for a certain Mr Harrison so good luck if you do decide to use it....

If you resort to foreign decisions then surely your local country court (Scotland for me, England and Wales for you) hasn't decided the point yet ? They have to decide one way or another so you have to try, surely ?

M1

[transformer999]

Re: Default Charges in agreements & contracts

Its not about being a clever dick in front of the judge or anything like that because if I was a clever dick I would not be in the position I am today.

As a litigant in person I have to try and do teh best I can to support my case...from wherever means I can too. I am only just exploring my options and if there is something that I can use that will help me then I would like to use. That is why I posted this question to see the con's n pro's...and looks like it is not a good idea.

No worries......thanks Niddy and Garlok for your input...and warnings of how it could turn out. thanks Mystery1 too...

[Never-In-Doubt]

Re: Default Charges in agreements & contracts

If you resort to foreign decisions then surely your local country court (Scotland for me, England and Wales for you) hasn't decided the point yet ? They have to decide one way or another so you have to try, surely ?

M1

Hmm, I can't see this working at all.

You realise that Aus actually conform to Constitution of Australia - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Ergo we cannot use anything from that side of the pond, in any of our cases - it is irrelevant! Bit like the hacker kid that is fighting extradition etc - the natwest 3 - I can go on.....

[Never-In-Doubt]

Re: Default Charges in agreements & contracts

Its not about being a clever dick in front of the judge or anything like that because if I was a clever dick I would not be in the position I am today.

don't take that remark as a dig - it wasn't, it was used to describe how it *could* appear.

[transformer999]

Re: Default Charges in agreements & contracts

don't take that remark as a dig - it wasn't, it was used to describe how it *could* appear.

I know Niddy it wasn't ....and I know your only saying what is right..oh efferty efferty just got a little more to do then that's it.

[pompeyfaith]

Re: Default Charges in agreements & contracts

Using a Judgment from Scotland is one thing, using a Judgment from the other side of the world is quiet another and you would need to be able to afford to lose if you did try it in case it did go bottoms up.

[transformer999]

Re: Default Charges in agreements & contracts

Ok so maybe not a good idea to use that case law...seems weird as we can refer to http://curia.europa.eu/jurisp/cgi-bi...umaff=C-243/08 and last time I checked it was not an English case law? or am I wrong there?

[Never-In-Doubt]

Re: Default Charges in agreements & contracts

That was the Hungarian case no? It's in the EU so it went via Luxembourg / Brussles (or the Euro courts of Justice) whatever they call themselves....

I said before EU and UK is allowed but not inter-continent

[garlok]

Re: Default Charges in agreements & contracts

I think that we can put this to bed now you guys have my card index whirring around. Some of you will remember this from CAG days and was mentioned in a conversation with Mrs D on here recently as well.
Scottish Law. Scotland is irrefutably actually part of the UK despite having a different legal system.

Well cast your minds back to early Autumn 2009. A landmark case was adjourned where Mike Dailly of Govan Law Centre had brought a case against RBS if memory served correctly in the Sheriff's Court. He and his counsel were on the way to an outright win which would have put to bed ALL of the nonsense about reconstituted documents and the claptrap surrounding Carey, McGuffick and others. It was scheduled to be heard the last I heard in July 2010. very specifically the Lord CXhancellor's office stated that the decisions coming out of this case would NOT apply in England and Wales, they would only apply to cases heard in Scotland and within Scottish jurisdiction.


Secondly another Scottish case was being heard late 2010 early 2011 in which "doorstep" calling by debt collectors would become completely unlawful and reposession a thing of the past. Again the announcment was that this would NOT apply in England and Wales ONLY within Scottish jurisdiction.

Mrs D did say to me that not a lot has been heard of the latter case (the one we discussed) so what did actually happen I do not know. However the principle of relevance and jurisdiction is clearly demonstrated.

Of course this is all overridden by Lisbon and EU law. Paul and I had this discussion very recently on this very forum.

regards
Garlok

[oscar]

Re: Default Charges in agreements & contracts

Well one of my cards is Natwest - part of RBS. I am quite happy to go up to Edinburgh (have family just about round there) to take it court - afterall, thats where their head office is - so Scottish law should count - right? - worth a try.

[Never-In-Doubt]

Re: Default Charges in agreements & contracts

Well one of my cards is Natwest - part of RBS. I am quite happy to go up to Edinburgh (have family just about round there) to take it court - afterall, thats where their head office is - so Scottish law should count - right? - worth a try.

Nah mate cos you were in wales/england at the time of the contract

Plus all their agreements state it is English law. Wonder why eh?