MBNA/PRA

[Arthur]

• Type of account Credit Card
• Date commenced April 2009
• Approx balance £11,000
• Date last paid Default date June 2015, last payment March 2015
• Are you on arrangement or not paying Not paying
• Status Defaulted June 2015
• Account owner PRA

Hi, long time no posts as long time no word from anyone

This account has been totally quiet for 3 years, coming up to 6 years since the default date and I've had the odd letter reminding me to pay. Last letter today was offering a 70% discount, valid till 22nd April, obviously like all other such letters it will be filled and no action. But, it is very close to being (I think) SB. Since last paying in March 2015 I have not paid, nor written/acknowledged the account, so I'm looking for some advice. Previously, with another PRA account, they wrote with a big discount, then after the expiry date of their offer they started proceedings. For now I will do nothing, dont expect to hear from them till after 22/04, but what, if any, are my best options for delaying PRA putting a claim in before end of June? I think I'm right in thinking that as long as they get a claim in before the potential SB date then I can not use this as a defence? I need to be careful and start thinking here! I have not asked for a CCA or for any information from PRA on this account before

[Warwick65]

• Type of account Credit Card
• Date commenced April 2009
• Approx balance £11,000
• Date last paid Default date June 2015, last payment March 2015
• Are you on arrangement or not paying Not paying
• Status Defaulted June 2015
• Account owner PRA

Hi, long time no posts as long time no word from anyone

This account has been totally quiet for 3 years, coming up to 6 years since the default date and I've had the odd letter reminding me to pay. Last letter today was offering a 70% discount, valid till 22nd April, obviously like all other such letters it will be filled and no action. But, it is very close to being (I think) SB. Since last paying in March 2015 I have not paid, nor written/acknowledged the account, so I'm looking for some advice. Previously, with another PRA account, they wrote with a big discount, then after the expiry date of their offer they started proceedings. For now I will do nothing, dont expect to hear from them till after 22/04, but what, if any, are my best options for delaying PRA putting a claim in before end of June? I think I'm right in thinking that as long as they get a claim in before the potential SB date then I can not use this as a defence? I need to be careful and start thinking here! I have not asked for a CCA or for any information from PRA on this account before

Hi Arthur

Hopefully by June 2021 (this summer) it will be statute barred.

Who was the original creditor?

Can I just ask, did you make the last payment or was it a debt management company on your behalf?

They should now not contact you before 22/4 and if they do want to issue a claim they should send a letter of claim and you have 30 days to respond. If that happens post straight back here and we can decide the best course of action. That might be time to send a cca request but do not do that just yet.


Several years ago I received a letter before action a few days before I sent a CCA request. I had no idea what a LBA was back then but I never heard from clarity again.

[Arthur]

Hi

The original creditor was MBNA via Virgin Credit card.
I made the last payment directly, still have a print out of the statement in the files.
I'll hold tight and keep updated, would be good to see this one let go, but PRA arent known for being nice

[Warwick65]

Hi

The original creditor was MBNA via Virgin Credit card.
I made the last payment directly, still have a print out of the statement in the files.
I'll hold tight and keep updated, would be good to see this one let go, but PRA arent known for being nice

Thats great to hear. Yes let's hope it all goes quiet. At the moment I would not do anything unless you get a letter that needs responding to. Here's looking forward to June

[Grassy_K]

Hi

The original creditor was MBNA via Virgin Credit card.
I made the last payment directly, still have a print out of the statement in the files.
I'll hold tight and keep updated, would be good to see this one let go, but PRA arent known for being nice

They were nice to me, I keep getting statements from them including an admission that it's unenforceable - as I believe Virgin cards generally are, from other posts on here.

[PlanB]

The original creditor was MBNA via Virgin Credit card. . . . I'll hold tight and keep updated, would be good to see this one let go, but PRA arent known for being nice

Hello

Don't feel intimidated by PRA - they took me to court and lost because both of the credit agreements were ruled unenforceable.

Jo explains what happened in my case here >

‘“RECONSTITUTED AGREEMENT” – IRREDEEMABLY UNENFORCEABLE”
“UNREDACTED DEEDS OF ASSIGNMENT – NO ASSIGNMENT PROVED”


So, held Recorder Bellamy in PRA Group (UK) Limited v Mayhew at Central London County Court on 22nd March 2017, at the end of a 3 day multi track trial, when dismissing PRA’s claim against our client.


Stale debts sued for on the back of 2 ‘reconstituted’ MBNA credit card agreements (May 1999 and October 2000) were held irredeemably unenforceable under CCA 1974. The evidence of an honest witness was preferred to that of so called “reconstituted agreements”.


After 3 days of close forensic examination of, and legal argument about, evidence and documents from both PRA and MBNA stating that our client’s specific debt had been assigned, the court held that no assignment had been proved.


Efforts, over many months, in earlier cases to force PRA into disclosure of un-redacted deeds and deep and sustained forensic challenge to the provenance of documents needed to prove regulatory compliance, finally drew back the veil. The reality behind bulk debt purchasing was revealed.


This decision shows that just saying an agreement is enforceable and producing a “reconstituted” copy does not prove that it is enforceable. Just saying an agreement has been assigned and producing a notice saying it has been assigned does not prove legal assignment.


Debt purchasers need to provide proof. If that means the pitifully few pence in the pound they pay for stale debts will increase because banks will now have to start keeping original evidence complying with regulatory consumer protection measures, it is hard to imagine many tears being shed, outside the City of London.

Di

[Arthur]

Hi

Not really much to update, PRA have sent a std letter out offering me the chance to pay them and let them help me. No mention on further action. This has got me thinking, which is not always a good thing. The next stage is usually them sending a letter saying they are passing this to their legal department, giving me 14 days to let them know I will be paying. A letter before claim then arrives next, giving me 30 days to reply. In responding there then is another 30 days before they can issue a claim. Is this right? Does the amount, over £10K make a difference on timing? I understand that timing on SB stops if a claim is made, but if the quickest PRA can issue a claim here is 75 days, then this will be after June 28^th and a defence would be statute barred. Just wondering out loud, but hoping that PRA have missed the chance of getting a claim in before SB date

[PlanB]

Hi

PRA have sent a std letter out offering me the chance to pay them and let them help me. No mention on further action. This has got me thinking, which is not always a good thing. The next stage is usually them sending a letter saying they are passing this to their legal department, giving me 14 days to let them know I will be paying. A letter before claim then arrives next, giving me 30 days to reply. In responding there then is another 30 days before they can issue a claim. Is this right? Does the amount, over £10K make a difference on timing? I understand that timing on SB stops if a claim is made, but if the quickest PRA can issue a claim here is 75 days, then this will be after June 28^th and a defence would be statute barred. Just wondering out loud, but hoping that PRA have missed the chance of getting a claim in before SB date

Hello

You are tantalizingly close to this debt becoming statute barred next month from what you say, so it makes sense to think about your strategy now.

Does that PRA letter come from the Investigations and Litigation Team or is it from another department such as Collections?

I can't see whether you have ever sent a CCA Request for this debt in the past. Definitely don't do that now. Depending on your answer you may need to use that as a delaying tactic if you receive a Letter of Claim, but let me know if that happens before deciding on your next step.

A Letter of Claim should give you 30 days to reply before they should issue a claim. This means they can issue the claim once the 30 days expires, not another 30 days' later.

Let me know the CCA situation or is that posted on another thread of yours in which case please signpost me to the full debt history, or requote it on this thread.

The SB clock does stop ticking once a claim is issued so it would be good to prevent that from happening. You may have other arguments even if they do go ahead before the SB date kicks in.

Keep below the radar for now so they don't look at the file closely and notice that SB is imminent so issue a claim.

Di

[Arthur]

Hi Di

The letter today was just a standard one from their collections department, no mention of litigation action or departments.

Ive never sent a CCA request for this account, Ive never contacted PRA about it in anyway, I hope to keep it that way!

[Warwick65]

Hi
They could issue sooner if they realise it is about to become time barred. Normally they issue a letter of claim and you have 30 days to reply. If you get a letter of claim you reply ticking box D saying you dispute the debt and asking for various documents these are

The agreement
The default Notice
The termination notice
The Notice of assignment
The Deed of assignment
A full statement of account

Depending on if you have sent a CCA request before and how they replied you might send another (for example if you sent it to the original creditor and they replied with a good agreement but have since sold the debt on, you may well send a new CCA request to the new owners . If they did not comply or sent you something that did not fulfil your request you note that in your reply to the solicitors)

Hopefully that slows things up

Sorry I see Di answered while I was typing

[PlanB]

Hi Di

The letter today was just a standard one from their collections department, no mention of litigation action or departments.

Ive never sent a CCA request for this account, Ive never contacted PRA about it in anyway, I hope to keep it that way!

Definitely keep your head down for now!

Don't draw attention to yourself - keep me posted on their next step.

This is all about timing.

Di

[Arthur]

Hi. Head still down and no news, had one more standard letter offering a discount. I checked with 2 cra, one has the default date as 2nd June the other 30th June, which is odd. I don't have a default notice for this account. Guess I will take the latest date of 30th June as the date, and hopefully if all keeps quiet have a little smile come that day.

[PlanB]

I checked with 2 cra, one has the default date as 2nd June the other 30th June, which is odd. I don't have a default notice for this account. Guess I will take the latest date of 30th June as the date

Maybe you don't have the Default Notice for this debt because they didn't issue/serve you with one?

There's a difference between a Default Notice under s87(1) CCA, and a Default being registered on your CRA file.

If the account was 'defaulted' without first serving you with a compliant Default Notice (giving you a chance to remedy the situation), then they would have a problem if this ended up in court.

May I also ask when the debt was assigned to PRA, and whether you mean you've had no interaction with them whatsoever since then?

Di

[Arthur]

Hi Di

It was assigned to PRA late 2015, can't fully recall. No, I've only ever had one way communication with them, they send and I file