Should I go bankrupt?

[philnicandamy]

Re: Should I go bankrupt?

you dont jon no....

they sometimes though will ask if the paperwork can be filled in by a debt advisory CAB etc

its a little hit & miss but very much worth a shot

[jon1965]

Re: Should I go bankrupt?

Thank you PlanB

Silly question but do you need to be a customer of the companies, as i am with EON and they do not seem to do anything.

[PlanB]

Re: Should I go bankrupt?

It's ironic that some people could be "too poor to go bankrupt" when they haven't got the money to pay the OR fee...

This may seem like a wild card but I've had success in the past with getting fees paid by this charity for people to go BR who can't afford the cost. It's a grant not a loan and doesn't have to be paid back ever. I'll check out some more resources in the next couple of days

http://www.uutf.org.uk/files/UUTF%20...2007%20(3).pdf

Believe it or not British Gas will provide grants to help people go BR too in some cases:

http://www.britishgasenergytrust.org...o-applications

In fact most of the big energy companies have associated charities like EDF:

http://www.edfenergytrust.org.uk/hel...o-applications

Before anyone gets the wrong idea that these big hitters are fuzzy wuzzy nice people just remember that donations to charity are tax deductable so it makes sound business sense to them

[PlanB]

Re: Should I go bankrupt?

John's case may be considered a transaction at undervalue though.

In which they can go back 5 years rather than 2.



If anything, I think it might be a transaction under value?

I've always thought becoming a wife was a *transaction under value*

[Riz]

Re: Should I go bankrupt?

TThere is something encouraging in that info about not 'restoring the position' (ie taking back the money from Jon's mum or ex-wife) if it would result in hardship for the recipient perhaps making them homeless

There is also the practical aspect of the OR/trustee having to instruct external solicitors in any recovery.

In even straight forward cases, that usually means that unless the sum to be recovered is greater than £5,000, then it just aint worth their while bothering
with.

At £7.5K, this is above that limit. But taking into account other issues, not withstanding whether it's actually a TUV in the first place, I would be amazed if they went further than just asking. Cannot imagine them taking formal legal action.

[Riz]

Yes, they can. It is a legal position.

If the "preference" occurred within 6 months prior to the bankruptcy, or 2 years if you pay off an "associate" (including relatives).

John's case may be considered a transaction at undervalue though.

In which they can go back 5 years rather than 2.

Do you think an ex-wife would count as a "preference" in the eyes of the OR

If anything, I think it might be a transaction under value?

I was responding to Talays different question on preferences previously.

TUVs are discussed here:

TRANSACTIONS AT AN UNDERVALUE

[jon1965]

Re: Should I go bankrupt?

I know Plan B. I never thought you were being judgemental, I just wanted to make my position and my innocence clear on the net for all to see. However i can see why you said what you did, there are always what ifs and I am the worlds worst at asking all those questions.

[PlanB]

Re: Should I go bankrupt?

Hi

Another thought, and please no one be offended, I feel that everyone is talking about when I am found guilty not IF. It must be a huge IF as I have not done what they say I have. Ok yes I did things wrong and the company know that and sacked me for it, but to say I profitted from anything is not true.
.

Oh please don't misunderstand me - I wasn't presuming that you would be found guilty at all, and I'm dreadfully sorry if it came across like that Your thread is called "Shall I go bankrupt" and it seemed a good idea to research the pros and cons in your particular circumstances. My sincere apologies if I appeared judgmental because that is not my style Perhaps it's a good idea to see this as an exercise in potential damage limitation and not a prediction of something which should not happen

One good thread on BR was started by Fiscalfool and he updates it from time to time. I think he's at the halfway mark now and all good

http://forums.all-about-debt.co.uk/s...ead.php?t=3683

[jon1965]

Re: Should I go bankrupt?

Hi
I think , and a solicitor did tell me, that she is entitled to half the procedes of the house as it was bought to be our home and she contributed to the running of the house in other ways than actually physically paying the mortgage. ii.e my salary paid mortgage and bills, her money everything else.

Really is all very confusing and not many people know that much about BR, certainly not NDL (they have a leaflet but they don't know the details)

Another thought, and please no one be offended, I feel that everyone is talking about when I am found guilty not IF. It must be a huge IF as I have not done what they say I have. Ok yes I did things wrong and the company know that and sacked me for it, but to say I profitted from anything is not true.
So I would have thought to have a confiscation order they would need to show that I had the money and spent it which I would hope (if there is any justice in this world ) is impossible.
The trust fund which sounds very grand is not really that , it is inheritance planning and as things stand three things need to happen
1) I don't piss my mum off enough to be disinherited
2) She dies (ok i know that will happen but I am seriously hoping not for a very long time)
3) The trustees of the fund (my two sisters) say I can have the money

So I do not think it will ever actually be my money as such if it doesn't have to be

The major questions are the what ifs should I go BR, and I do not want my (ex) to suffer...although we have never divorced and the house was only sold because she has moved into assisted living (council OAP bungalow) and I didn'y want to live there, nor could I afford to.

[PlanB]

Re: Should I go bankrupt?

Yes, they can. It is a legal position.

If the "preference" occurred within 6 months prior to the bankruptcy, or 2 years if you pay off an "associate" (including relatives).

PREFERENCES

Insolvency Act 1986

If necessary, the OT/trustee can apply to the court for an order to return the position to what it was before the preference was made. As such, may be an order requiring to to repay it.

Thank you Rizzle that's really interesting

Do you think an ex-wife would count as a "preference" in the eyes of the OR I wonder whether her legal rights under Family Law would come first. There is something encouraging in that info about not 'restoring the position' (ie taking back the money from Jon's mum or ex-wife) if it would result in hardship for the recipient perhaps making them homeless

[Riz]

Re: Should I go bankrupt?

Is that a legal position ? Say you owe me £5000 and you pay me back when you have other debts which you do not repay and then you go bankrupt, are you saying that the official receiver can come and ask me to give him back the £5000 you gave me ?

Yes, they can. It is a legal position.

If the "preference" occurred within 6 months prior to the bankruptcy, or 2 years if you pay off an "associate" (including relatives).

PREFERENCES

Insolvency Act 1986

If necessary, the OT/trustee can apply to the court for an order to return the position to what it was before the preference was made. As such, may be an order requiring to to repay it.

[kilasuit]

Re: Should I go bankrupt?

Its always better to be vastly over-prepared than to be under prepared.

I always plan for the absolute worst. that way i can only be ready for it.

[PlanB]

Re: Should I go bankrupt?

Hi all and thanks for your help so far.
I am about to investigate the UE route but a question on BR would be about the recent sale of my house.
The house was bought in 1990 just prior to my marraige but in my name only. It was however bought to be our marital home. After I left my wife continued to live there with DWP paying some of the mortgage and I paid the rest. It was always agreed that it was our house with equal interest.
During the sale my mum paid for some work, skip hire, man with van etc which was repaid out of the sale proceeds and I gave my wife (still married although apart for 10 years) 7.5K . If i do go BR could the OR chase either her or my mum for the money?
I am still on a fact finding exercise atm prior to decisions
Ta
Jon

One more thing for your fact finding exercise. You've said in another post that the sale of your house completed on 9th December 2011. If that date was before these legal proceedings were started then I presume the proceeds should be ok since the transaction was all part of seperating from your wife. But why not get proper legal advice on whether the proceeds of that sale (even if they have already been distributed) are safe and sound if the sale was completed after the case started since you've not yet begun divorce proceedings to support your explantion for the sale. Like you say this is simply fact finding and you will probably never need to rely on the answers you get given

[PlanB]

Re: Should I go bankrupt?

It's ironic that some people could be "too poor to go bankrupt" when they haven't got the money to pay the OR fee...

As I understand it people on benefits pay a reduced fee. Going BR can sometimes be a wise investment even if the money to do it is borrowed because Confiscation Orders are draconian and have a longer shelf-life than a CCJ and I believe they don't ever become SB because they relate to criminal proceedings

If the accused/offender has no current assets the court can make a Nominal Order of £1. This means that "if in the future should the defendant come into new assets, all that remains is for the court to seek to increase the Nominal Order to the value of the criminal benefit in the proceedings to which the defendant has already been convicted (or possibly pleaded guilty)."

Jon is due to inherit from a family trust and unless I'm wrong that money could be vulnerable to the long arm of the law should the worst case scenario come about. Let's hope not But I see nothing wrong in getting organised upfront

http://www.cps.gov.uk/westmidlands/c...eeds_of_crime/

Nothing wrong in future proofing

[PlanB]

Re: Should I go bankrupt?

I've been thinking I do that sometimes

Courts have the power to make a Confiscation Order against anyone who is perceived to have made a profit from crime in an attempt to claw back the proceeds. If the money has been subsequently spent the court can chase any assets available at the time or acquired in the future. But if the accused is bankrupt at the time of the hearing then it would be pointless for the court to make such an order

Something for you to think about too