Enforcement without pre 2007 CCA

[julian]

Re: Enforcement without pre 2007 CCA

So being stuffed by DJ on an "Irredeemably unenforceable" agreement, as the CCA is lost and cannot be produced at all, I do not pay forthwith because I cannot.

What can happen?

If the claimant wants to enforce, they need to apply to the court for AoE, CO etc. Is there any legal argument that can fall back to the "Irredeemably unenforceable" agreement when an application for enforcement is made?

[mystery1]

Re: Enforcement without pre 2007 CCA

Why didn't you argue it in court ?

Are you in time to appeal ?

M1

[PriorityOne]

Re: Enforcement without pre 2007 CCA

So being stuffed by DJ on an "Irredeemably unenforceable" agreement, as the CCA is lost and cannot be produced at all, I do not pay forthwith because I cannot.

What can happen?

If the claimant wants to enforce, they need to apply to the court for AoE, CO etc. Is there any legal argument that can fall back to the "Irredeemably unenforceable" agreement when an application for enforcement is made?

How do you know it's "irredeemably unenforceable"? Are you saying that you've already got a CCJ and it's too late to pursue the CCA route? If you already have a CCJ and cannot pay then the CCJ can/will be enforced via a number of options; charging order, attachment of earnings, bailiffs and so on... Are you saying that's the stage you have reached? If so, then the CCA argument will not be valid....no matter how much it pisses you off.

[julian]

Re: Enforcement without pre 2007 CCA

Cym you are spot on.

M1 not only did Claimants' Witness Statement state that the CCA was not available, but the Rent-a-gob solicitor had no papers at all. Even so probability was assumed without a CCA, but the DJ and the sol were acquaintances.

[julian]

Re: Enforcement without pre 2007 CCA

Long time ago, so little point in looking to appeal on the initial judgement, but interested in KNOWING if any further attempts at enforcement would give the opportunity to force the presentation of the pre 2007 CCA, and thereby invalidate any enforcement action.

The thread has confirmed that even when argued the pre 2007 CCA can be disregarded by the claimant refusing to accept a dispute pre formal claim and the judiciary ignoring the requirement to provide and produce prior to and during proceedings.

[PriorityOne]

Re: Enforcement without pre 2007 CCA

The thread has confirmed that even when argued the pre 2007 CCA can be disregarded by the claimant refusing to accept a dispute pre formal claim and the judiciary ignoring the requirement to provide and produce prior to and during proceedings.

This has been going on for years.... Unless a claim is properly defended; both pre-court and afterwards, the claimant will choose to ignore whatever he/she sees fit.

Unfortunately, many people have been caught out this way.

[julian]

Re: Enforcement without pre 2007 CCA

It does not appear to matter about the propriety or power of any defence or rebuttal, but as Cym points out the luck of the draw regarding the DJ's ruling on the case.

From the thread it appears to be that once awarded, a CCJ is permanent and enforcement follows, or not. A new contract is created by the DJ and given to both parties.
As enforcement is separate and court orders are required for enforcement, is there an opportunity to appeal the original award at this point?

A claimant may undertake more than one method of enforcement at the same time, but needs to apply for permission.

[PriorityOne]

Re: Enforcement without pre 2007 CCA

It might be better if we could move away from hypotheticals.... and look at what actually happened in your case Julian; dates, amounts, etc.

[julian]

Re: Enforcement without pre 2007 CCA

It does seem that all info/experience relates to avoiding claims and judgements. Unfortunately, little or nothing relates to enforcement. That is to be expected if avoidance tactics have been used successfully. As a consequence, there iis insufficient knowledge on this specific matter.

So rather than drag this thread on to further navel gazing, I'll keep my fingers crossed and profile low and wait for creditor activity if any. Of course, if I do come across appropriate info I will post.

Thanks all.

[cymruambyth]

Re: Enforcement without pre 2007 CCA

Simple you get a CCJ. 1 you pay within in 1 month to clear, or 2, you make an application for variation to pay an amount per month that you can afford, then 3 creditor tries to get a CO which you defend, 4 if they get a CO usually nothing happens until you sell your house.

[julian]

Re: Enforcement without pre 2007 CCA

Unfortunately 'simple' doesn't answer query.

Take a step forward, as I have obviously confused you all.

Following a CCJ penalty is awarded. eg 1) AoE 2)CO.
1) AoE in force but job is lost so no earnings to cover Order.
2) CO in force but house repossessed or sold with negative equity.

AoE considered enforcement, CO sometimes considered enforcement.

Now creditor has no repayment vehicle. So options are to apply to court for other sanctions or bankruptcy. If there is no money, it may be futile, but an application to a court would be required to take on another enforcement action or start bankruptcy proceedings.

In 1) there has been enforcement
In 2) maybe there has been enforcement

Dors anyone know if the CCA can revisited as part of the further legal action? eg as the original action was intrinsically wrong.

[PriorityOne]

Re: Enforcement without pre 2007 CCA

Dors anyone know if the CCA can revisited as part of the further legal action? eg as the original action was intrinsically wrong.

Not if Judgement has been made some time ago, no...... I do know what you're saying though; that if Judgement was made on the back of a dodgy CCA, for example.... then further legal action should be able to highlight this (in theory anyway). In reality however, a Judgement is a Judgement and you stand to lose a great deal of money in costs by trying to drag it all up for a different outcome further on down the line.