Landlord not paying mortgage on property I am renting

[milliesmadmoth]

Re: Landlord not paying mortgage on property I am renting

Hi MilliesMadMother,

I clarified the tacit relocation issue and underlined the point that your tenancy is not moving onto a ‘month to month’ basis but will relocate for a further six month term. He appeared to grasp this at the end – I think.

etc.....

Hi Case Handler @ Shelter Scotland

Thanks for doing that for me.

I understand that I am still liable to pay rent but should I be paying it to Letting Agent if the lender has not engaged with his agency. Surely there must be a limbo period until all this is sorted out. I will again on Wednesday 22nd make contact with Solicitor to find out the position or really they should be making contact with me, I have given them my contact details along with making contact with The Mortgage Trust.

Unless the current landlord wins the case on 22nd I don't think I should be continuing to pay Letting Agent until I hear that they are acting as the letting agent.

Surly I have a responsibility to make sure that I am paying the rent to the correct person or I could be liable for double payments.

What are your thoughts on this?

MilliesMadMother

[milliesmadmoth]

Re: Landlord not paying mortgage on property I am renting

The letting agent is not grasping tacit relocate, the case handler from Shelter Scotland was good enough to phone Mr Big Boss to explain the law around it and that his tenancy agreement did not include such clause...

Hi MilliesMadMother,

I clarified the tacit relocation issue and underlined the point that your tenancy is not moving onto a ‘month to month’ basis but will relocate for a further six month term. He appeared to grasp this at the end – I think.

He pointed out that in some other cases the lender has actually engaged their agency to collect rent on their behalf after a court decision in their favour and he again said that you would be safe paying rent to him. He said that even in the worst case scenario it was his experience that it would be 2-3 months time before the lender applied successfully to the court for a tenants removal.

He again said he would be willing to help you look for alternatives.

He said he understood your decision to withhold part of the rent till the court date but disagreed that you needed to do this and underlined that you are liable to pay rent whether the lender wins the case or not.

It’s up to you how you proceed from here regarding the rent.

Let’s just wait and see what happens on 22/4/15 and see if the lender gets in touch post court case.

Regards

Shelter Scotland

[milliesmadmoth]

Re: Landlord not paying mortgage on property I am renting

The point with regard to the month to month is straightforward in that after the initial period of the lease ie 6 months or 12 months you may extend on a month to month basis.

The letting agent is not grasping tacit relocate, the case handler from Shelter Scotland was good enough to phone Mr Big Boss to explain the law around it and that his tenancy agreement did not include such clause...

[milliesmadmoth]

Re: Landlord not paying mortgage on property I am renting

Mr Big Boss,

Thank you for your email outlining your points.

As I stated in my previous email it is not my intention to withhold rent payments however I need to ensure that I am paying them to the correct owner of the property. The contract which your letting agent has is with Mrs Landlord however this may change come the court hearing on Wednesday 22nd April I can pay a part payment for the month of April of £315 this will be my rent up to and including 21st April.

When the case calls at court on Wednesday 22nd April it will be determined who the owner of the property will be, the current Mrs Landlord, your letting agent acting on behalf of Mrs Landlord or the lender, Mortgage Trust at which stage I can then continue to make my monthly rental payments to either yourself or the lender direct.

etc.....

Good afternoon MilliesMadMother,

Thank you for your further email, the contents of which have been noted.

We can confirm that we too have written to Solicitor, on two occasions to advise them that a tenant is currently residing at this property.

The point with regard to the month to month is straightforward in that after the initial period of the lease ie 6 months or 12 months you may extend on a month to month basis.

You may certainly ask the question as to how long we have known about the landlords financial difficulty ie 17 weeks - since 17 December 2014.

We have many cases such as this and this is not in the least unusual – extremely common in fact throughout the UK and unfortunately here in Scotland, particularly in the last twelvemonths or so. In some instances the situation is resolved with an agreement being reached between the lender and the borrower as far as payment is concerned and the landlord retains possession of the property. As to the outcome of this particular case I am not in a position to comment as quite simply I do not know!
As to last mortgage payment to the lender being July, this may well be the case but again I cannot comment as this is a matter between the landlord and the lender.

Regards

Mr Big Boss

[nanna58]

Re: Landlord not paying mortgage on property I am renting

That's a great polite and to the point letter imo.

[cymruambyth]

Re: Landlord not paying mortgage on property I am renting

It looks good to me, the right balance between showing knowledge and not being confrontational.

[milliesmadmoth]

Re: Landlord not paying mortgage on property I am renting

I sent this email on to Shelter Scotland and this was my response to help me reply to the letting agent..


I would view this email in a positive light. They are taking a conciliatory tone, offering options, explaining your rights but also rightly pointing out your current contractual obligations re the rent.

I have sent the following to Shelter Scotland for approval before I send it to the letting agent, this is my thoughts and how I feel about this whole mess!!


Hi Shelter Scotland

Thanks for your email.

The tone of the email has definitely changed however I still believe the letter which was put through my door was to try and force me into paying in a threatening kind of manner knowing the position that I am in here with my son.

At the moment I don't want to look at alternative properties as I have spent enough £1k approx on this flat and want to sit it out for as long as my rights give me and I might have the opportunity to purchase it. Also One of your colleagues at Shelter Scotland previously told me that lenders are not in the habit of acting as a letting agent and might not ask me for my monthly rental payments so why should I pay over the money to the letting agent to line their pocket when I have already spent all this money to make it habitable!


Mr Big Boss,

Thank you for your email outlining your points.

As I stated in my previous email it is not my intention to withhold rent payments however I need to ensure that I am paying them to the correct owner of the property. The contract which your letting agent has is with Mrs Landlord however this may change come the court hearing on Wednesday 22nd April I can pay a part payment for the month of April of £315 this will be my rent up to and including 21st April.

When the case calls at court on Wednesday 22nd April it will be determined who the owner of the property will be, the current Mrs Landlord, your letting agent acting on behalf of Mrs Landlord or the lender, Mortgage Trust at which stage I can then continue to make my monthly rental payments to either yourself or the lender direct.

I have been in touch with solicitor and The Mortgage Trust to let them know that I am currently a tenant in this property should the owner of the property change on 22nd April they already have my contact details.

You raised another point about me being on a month to month contract going forward however there is no reference to such a clause in my contract and without such a clause the contract would relocate for a further six month term, could I therefore ask you to explain why you think month to month would be the case as you do not need to 'renew' my lease.

May I ask how long you have been aware of the Mrs Landlords financial difficulty as the last mortgage payment to be made was July and I rented this property on 1st November.

I look forward to hearing from you in due course.

MillieMadMother

[milliesmadmoth]

Re: Landlord not paying mortgage on property I am renting

Dear MillieMadMother

I have tried to speak with you on your mobile this morning without success. Perhaps when you have a moment you call the undersigned number.

In the meantime, following your email, I would advise you of the following in order to clarify any possible misunderstanding

I sent this email on to Shelter Scotland and this was my response to help me reply to the letting agent..


I would view this email in a positive light. They are taking a conciliatory tone, offering options, explaining your rights but also rightly pointing out your current contractual obligations re the rent.

If they are looking at alternatives for you then I would definitely explore this.

As stated previously, withholding rent can be a high risk strategy and I personally don’t see why you wouldn’t pay rent for the month of April as you will be occupying the property for this period come what may. If, for example, you felt in danger of losing your deposit at a later stage then withholding rent further might still be something to consider again. Right now, you are liable for the rent as per your contract - I don’t see a problem releasing this payment now but it’s up to you.

Interesting that they are stating the landlord is aware of the court action and perhaps telling that they are hinting the property could well be repossessed. Indeed, the rental payment might even help the landlord defend the court action – although we don’t know at this stage.

Regarding the assertion that your contract will move onto a “month to month” basis I’m rather puzzled. I have scoured your contract and can see no reference to such a clause and without such a clause the contract would relocate for a further six month term. Perhaps ask them to explain why they think this will be the case – maybe I have missed it. They do not need to ‘renew’ your lease – it does so automatically. It is true that some agents/landlords seek to make what are actually illegal charges for ‘renewing’ contracts.

[milliesmadmoth]

Re: Landlord not paying mortgage on property I am renting

I got an email reply

MilliesMadMother

Thank you for your email which has been passed to Mr Big Boss who will respond when he is back in the office on Monday.

Regards

The letting agent

Dear MillieMadMother

I have tried to speak with you on your mobile this morning without success. Perhaps when you have a moment you call the undersigned number.

In the meantime, following your email, I would advise you of the following in order to clarify any possible misunderstanding-

The purpose of our letter dated 09 April was sent with the intention of advising that due to the current situation we are not able to renew your lease for a further six or twelve months as normally would be the case. Your contract has not ended. There is no need at all for you to vacate the property by 30th April as occupancy for the time being at least can be retained on a month to month basis. This is known as you rightly say by tacit relocation. For the avoidance of doubt we are fully aware of the correct legal procedures which is exactly the way we are proceeding in your case.

The other reason for this letter was to attempt to offer you suitable alternative accommodation at an early date as at some stage this is inevitable.

I would add that regardless of what happens at the court hearing it will be several more months at least before you would require to vacate due to your rights under the Housing Scotland Act, during which time all rent should continue to be paid.

We too are very disappointed that you find yourself in this situation - you are as you say a good tenant and we therefore wish to do all possible to minimise any convenience that this unfortunate situation is causing.

Finally I would advise that the landlord is fully aware of all matters in relation to the court hearing etc etc

Hopefully, all of the above gives you the clarity required - I look forward to hearing from you in due course.

Regards

Mr Big Boss

[milliesmadmoth]

Re: Landlord not paying mortgage on property I am renting

You have definitely covered all bases with this.

Are you going to the hearing on 22nd so you can persuade the Sheriff to involve you in the decision making?

The only people you've not told are The Mortgage Trust who may see an opportunity in your favour that their solicitors may not. I assume Shelter is guiding you so do what they suggest, but is there any harm in letting the lender know your intentions too so they may consider all options? After all they are the ones instructing the solicitor. If the lender wants you to stay they can tell the solicitor how to make that happen. It doesn't have to be repossessed if the Lender doesn't want that. Repossession of a property in negative equity is a loss-maker for a Lender.

Plan B x

PlanB thanks for your other points, I hadn't thought about going to the court.

I have written to mortgage trust with the mail below.


Dear MortgageLender

See below my email which has been sent to your solicitor.

Further to receiving a citation.

I am writing to let you know that I am a tenant with my 12 year old son at the above address, I have attached a copy of my agreement and believe the tenancy was granted with the lender's implied permission through the owner's 'buy-to-let' mortgage.

The mortgage holder is Mrs Landlord, address, postcode.

I maybe interested in buying the property for a reasonable price in the future.

I am willing to start making rent payments to the lender if an order for possession is granted in their favour.

I look forward to hearing from you on the above matter.

Brgds

MilliesMadMother

[milliesmadmoth]

Re: Landlord not paying mortgage on property I am renting

Hi PlanB

With the help of Shelter Scotland I replied with this....



Dear letting agent,

Re: house on the hill.....

Following our conversation of Wednesday 8th April regarding non payment of my rent payment for the month of April. I advised you that on the advice of Shelter Scotland I cancelled my standing order due to the case calling at court on Wednesday 22nd April when it will be determined who the owner of the property will be, the landlord or the lender at which stage I can then continue to make my monthly rental payments. I have placed this money aside and would be happy to pay it should I feel secure that I can continue in occupation of the property. I have no intention of withholding rent unreasonably but while my landlord’s right to grant my tenancy remains in doubt it feel I have no choice.

Today I received a hand delivered letter through my door which states that you are unable to renew my current lease which is due to expire on 30th April 2015.

Shelter Scotland has advised that as the contract was not ended via a valid notice to quit it appears tacit relocation will operate on 30th April 2015, the consent of your agency is not required for tacit relocation to occur. Your agency will not be able to take any action to recover the property without following the correct procedures and any attempt to do so would constitute an illegal eviction and a criminal offence. I have been advised to call the police in this circumstance.

I am very disappointed that I have been dropped into a situation where I have been what I feel a good tenant who has looked after the property.

If you could provide further clarity on this situation and specifically advise me on whether the landlord is aware of the impending court action I would be very grateful.

Yours sincerely

MilliesMadMother


Ps PlanB I bcc you in on the email along with Shelter Scotland

I got an email reply



MilliesMadMother

Thank you for your email which has been passed to Mr Big Boss who will respond when he is back in the office on Monday.

Regards

The letting agent

[PlanB]

Re: Landlord not paying mortgage on property I am renting

You have definitely covered all bases with this.

Are you going to the hearing on 22nd so you can persuade the Sheriff to involve you in the decision making?

I helped a Tenant in a similar situation (in England) and the judge ordered possession of the property to the Lender and the Tenant could remain in the property for a further six months on condition they paid their rent direct to the Lender. He's still there a year later.

Your case is interesting because the amount of rent you pay would clear the Landlord's arrears in a couple of months, which begs the question does the Lender need to repossess it if the rent is paid direct to them?

I need to read your legal papers again, but in the rest of the UK Buy-to-Let properties aren't repossessed they are taken into 'receivership' and managed until either sold by the Receiver (on behalf of the Lender) or returned to the borrower/mortgagee once the arrears have been cleared. The Mortgage Trust returned 80% of the properties they seized in 2012. I know that because I was nearly one of them (as a Landlord whose Tenant stopped paying me rent)..

Another thing to consider is that if the property is sold the buyer may want to keep you as a Tenant.

You've done exactly the right thing by letting everyone involved in the chain of events know of your presence in the property and your future intentions (to maybe purchase it).

The only people you've not told are The Mortgage Trust who may see an opportunity in your favour that their solicitors may not. I assume Shelter is guiding you so do what they suggest, but is there any harm in letting the lender know your intentions too so they may consider all options? After all they are the ones instructing the solicitor. If the lender wants you to stay they can tell the solicitor how to make that happen. It doesn't have to be repossessed if the Lender doesn't want that. Repossession of a property in negative equity is a loss-maker for a Lender.

Plan B x

[milliesmadmoth]

Re: Landlord not paying mortgage on property I am renting

And to finish my day I also sent this letter


Dear Mortgage Lenders Solicitor...

Re: House on the hill.....

Further to receiving a citation.

I am writing to let you know that I am a tenant at the above address, I have attached a copy of my agreement and believe the tenancy was granted with the lender’s implied permission through the owner’s ‘buy-to-let’ mortgage.

I maybe interested in buying the property for a reasonable price in the future.

I am willing to start making rent payments to the lender if an order for possession is granted in their favour.

I look forward to hearing from you on the above matter.

Yours sincerely

MilliesMadMother

[milliesmadmoth]

Re: Landlord not paying mortgage on property I am renting

under Scottish law you don't need to pay rent (for now) and get an automatic six month extension to your tenancy agreement, then I'm damn glad I'm a Landlord in England not Scotland

Plan B xx

PlanB you will be definitely glad you are a landlord in England now lol

[milliesmadmoth]

Re: Landlord not paying mortgage on property I am renting

You need to quantify that soon so I can help you recover that money so maybe best to wait until we've done that before you make your demands.

After that will be the cost of moving (when you do) to be recovered and a bit more for the stress and inconvenience.

Plan B x

I have receipts for the carpets, decorator and the materials. Blinds if I don't have receipts I will just take them with me...

For some reason Shelter Scotland does not think I have any claim on the letting agent for what is happening with this property as they are just collecting the monthly payments for the landlord.