Selling house with a secured loan

[LippyKid]

Re: Selling house with a secured loan

Thanks Again PlanB, I'm quite prepared to do all of that my only concern is the timescales we have to complete by 30th June which should ok if they FP agree straight away but if they argue/contest it and I have to start going down the options you have suggested it will all take much more time, I can imagine our solicitors putting pressure on us to just pay them off even though they know our financial situation will seriously decline.
Do you think it would ok to call and say I'm filling out the form but have to put N/A against the mortgage as there isn't one and then sell it how beneficial it is to them etc and then if they resist write the letter then and follow the route you have suggested? I understand it's not ideal that way its' just lack of time we have.

[PlanB]

Re: Selling house with a secured loan

I see no reason why you shouldn't phone them to tell them to expect a letter and the completed application form from you tomorrow and ask them to give it high priority because you're running out of time. You won't get an answer on the phone but no harm in alerting them to your written request on its way in the post. If you can fax it to them today that would help too.

Then ring them tomorrow to make sure it's been received and ask them to action it asap and get the name of the person dealing with it. Nag, nag, nag is the name of the game.

There is nothing to stop you making a complaint to the FOS after the event if you've missed the boat on timing due to them not making you aware of the situation earlier, but how will you prove that if it's not been done in writing?

If they are found to have been at fault by the FOS then you could ask them to issue you with a new £28k secured loan on the new address but I doubt you'd pass their current criteria (or they would have willingly agreed to port your current loan when you first asked) and they won't budge on that because it'll be seen as "irresponsible lending" under the new MMR rules from the FCA. That's why it's so important to port the existing loan.

[LippyKid]

Re: Selling house with a secured loan

FP have told us they are not 'A first charge company' and also a non trading company as they were bought by Barclays back in 2008 and have not issued a single loan since so legally they cannot accept this process it as such, we can send the forms in but they will be rejected and the FOS would back them becuse they are following all the as legally prodecures.
So in their words the loan cannot be ported so therefore they need the balance of 28k to be paid in full in order for us to sell our house.
So by this logic it looks like its game over for us, personally I'm not so sure but have no idea how to proceed to get what we want.

[PlanB]

Re: Selling house with a secured loan

it looks like its game over for us, personally I'm not so sure but have no idea how to proceed to get what we want.

You write to them like I already suggested last Thursday.

Don't listen to the crap you're being told on the phone. I know you want a quick fix but it doesn't work like that. A phone call is a waste of time. I said don't get into a conversation with them, I said simply tell them you're going to be sending in the form.

Yes FP is a *Closed Book Lender*. So what? This doesn't mean they can ignore what they've already agreed you can do with your secured loan when you took it out in the first place. Why does it say on their website that they port loans if they don't?

How can they possibly tell you what the FOS will say when they investigate. They're not psychic. You're being fobbed off. If you don't ask you don't get.

Forgive me for saying this but if you can't be bothered to write to them then you'll get nowhere.


This is what I said last week:

I would write them a letter explaining the situation in which you express your "disappointment" that you were not made aware of your right to port the loan or given any information how to go about porting it. Tell them you found this quite by chance on their website after seeking advice (no need to say where the advice came from).

Fill out the form and add N/A in the bit about the first mortgage because it's not applicable since there is no first mortgage.

Attach the form to your letter and point out that they will be in an improved position (i.e. have a first charge instead of a second charge) once the loan is ported and they have alternative security. They won't know that unless you point it out to them. Give them the numbers. Tell them the value of the new property and remind them of the small loan (£28k?) and point out that this is only 25% (?) LTV. You're selling yourself to them so that they can't refuse your offer.

I would never do anything over the phone. You will be talking to people who are not the decision makers. You need to get your request in front of the underwriters and/or a manager in Customer Services. In fact most lenders have a specific porting department.

You need a paper trail. Write and ask them for what you want. Wait till they reply that you can't have what you want. Write back and ask them why they have made that decision. When you know *why* you can counter-argue it. Then make a formal complaint that they are being unreasonable and take it to the FOS.

I know some people prefer to get a quick fix over the phone and writing letters is hard work but that's the only way you are going to achieve your aim.

[LippyKid]

Re: Selling house with a secured loan

Yep agree with all that! sorry brains a bit frazzled trying to move with all this on top, anyway will stick to the previous advise and pursue as you said.

Thanks for advice and support it is appreciated.

[PlanB]

Re: Selling house with a secured loan

sorry brains a bit frazzled trying to move with all this on top, anyway will stick to the previous advise and pursue as you said. Thanks for advice and support it is appreciated.

Please don't get me wrong Lippy. I'm not criticising you, although a boot up the arse never did anyone any harm.

I'm seriously competitive (no kidding) and I want you to win this battle with your lender.

[LippyKid]

Re: Selling house with a secured loan

No that's no problem PlanB as said I do appreciate advice you've given, I've been drafting the letter tonight really concious of the time restraints I have so will send Spec Delivery.

[PlanB]

Re: Selling house with a secured loan

I've been drafting the letter tonight really concious of the time restraints I have so will send Spec Delivery.

No need to waste a fiver on Special Delivery. Send it Recorded Delivery which will get there in more-or-less the same time.

I know how stressful it is moving house. My home is on the market right now too

[LippyKid]

Re: Selling house with a secured loan

Been quite lucky with this move! This has is most stressful about it everything else has been relatively straightforward anyway letter is sent unfortunately to muddy the waters a little the day we sent the letter we received a call form our current mortgage co and said there might be a way to port over part of current mortgage to enable FP to have a second charge hopefully resolving this situ only to find out we were mislead again they also added any porting would have to go through a broker we proceeded to contact a broker only to be told after he liaised with the mortgage co that porting isn't possible and it would have to be a new application I mean the inconsistency of relayed information is staggering so we are 'as you were' wasting more time.

I will wait until I hear from FP with most likely the rejection but more importantly the reason for the rejection and then I can go to FOS and hopefully get some resolution in shape or form it looks like its too late though before completion the solicitors have already informed us the completion will be 30th June and they have to legally settle all charges on the current property, anyway just wanted to update and get this off my chest thanks to anyone who read it special thanks to PlanB for all the advice and support and I will continue to update as when more unfolds.

[LippyKid]

Re: Selling house with a secured loan

Update on this, We have moved now but unfortunately we weren't able to port the loan so therefore have suffered quite a bit of embarrassment within the family that we couldn't pay them back the full amount back they loaned us as FP took the excess that was available from the sale bar a few hundred quid.
Anyway that aside as advised before I've got the paper trail going with asking for an explanation of why we were on 2 separate phone calls given conflicting information crucially different enough to affect our decision whether to proceed with the sale or not.
FP have responded with a somewhat predictable and standard tone letter, basically saying they admit no liability to misinformation blah d blah, so presumably I can go forward and get the FOS involved now, is there a preferred way to contact them? Is phone ok or is better to keep it to letters as with everything else?

Many Thanks in advance

[PlanB]

Re: Selling house with a secured loan

FP have responded with a somewhat predictable and standard tone letter, basically saying they admit no liability to misinformation blah d blah, so presumably I can go forward and get the FOS involved now

Your biggest problem was always going to be 'timing'. You didn't raise the issue with FP until you were close to your deadline and they knew they had you over a barrel as the clock was ticking for your house sale to complete. Once the property was sold you lost your bargaining power.

Now that the loan has been redeemed it no longer exists. That money has gone back into the kitty as they wind down their mortgage book. Or if they start to lend again that money will be lent to someone else. Some 'closed book' lenders are re-opening for business.

Did that last letter from them say it was a Final Response? If so you can refer your complaint to the FOS. If not you can refer your complaint to the FOS on Monday 4th August since that will be eight weeks after you raised the complaint with FP.

The big question is what exactly is your complaint and how would the FOS deal with it? If you were still in your old property the FOS may have put pressure on FP to be more 'reasonable' with your request to port the loan. I'm not sure what your complaint is now.

In my experience the FOS tend to respond to these issues with "we cannot interfere with a business' commercial decisions". That means that FP have the right to decide whether they want to take a risk and effectively re-lend to you when the loan was to be ported. It's illogical because if you'd stayed where you were in the old house they couldn't have taken the loan away from you unless you defaulted. I personally think re-underwriting borrowers who port or want to change products (and stay with the lender) stinks. Lenders just use it as an excuse to get rid of some existing customers so they can lend the money to other customers who they prefer.

You can make a complaint about service levels and hope the FOS suggest compensation for that, but the FOS can't make them re-lend to you. What the FOS may also look at is whether you are in fact in a better position financially without the port since you no longer have to pay the loan which frees up your income to do other things. They may also decide that you are better off because your not attracting interest of that £28k loan which would have been quite hefty knowing FP's interest rates.

What the FOS might consider is whether you have been financially disadvantaged by the refusal to port. For example if you were unable to pay one of your other creditors resulting in a Default on your CRA file or some other negative.

I hate being negative but I also don't like to raise false hope either. In this case you've missed the boat with FP because you started the battle too late in the day.

[LippyKid]

Re: Selling house with a secured loan

Hi PlanB thanks for responding again, totally understand your points I realise the loan itself is a dead issue now, what I want to focus on now is the misinformatio from FP it has caused us problems mentally and financially its true from a debt pov we are better off long term because of the all the interest we won't have pay over the years but in terms of capital to be able to make our new home more liveable and most importantly paying back relatives we are not! It has caused us emabaessment and made us look conceited we are lucky of the relationships we have with them other wise it would have been worse.
I know this will have little influence with the FOS but I don't see FP should get away with the shoddy service they have provided in this case, they did not ask relevant questions to ascertain the complete situation we were going to find ourselves in and I want something done about it yes compensation would be nice to what degree I don't know what's possible but an agreement with us re FP not providing clear and precise information is as important to us at least it I can show that to my relatives to show we were proceeding with the house sale in good faith from the outset.

Ooh yes FP stated this is a final response

[LippyKid]

Re: Selling house with a secured loan

I've gone through the complaining to the ombudsman but they have decided not to uphold my complaint about FP, so will go through appeals process.
In the meantime I just wanted to check they said they wouldn't reveal what information they used to make the decision but they did let slip that it wasn't the phone calls between each party! So it seems to me they have just sided with bank because well I don't know the only evidence on show was the phone calls otherwise it's just the words on paper that we have both submitted to them, is that right can they get away with that? If the phone calls were used do I have a right to hear those calls myself?

Any help would be appreciated.

[PlanB]

Re: Selling house with a secured loan

I've gone through the complaining to the ombudsman but they have decided not to uphold my complaint about FP, so will go through appeals process.

Do you mean you've received the Adjudicator's first response and you've been invited to comment and/or submit more information in the next 14 days? Or are you at the stage when you can refer it to an Ombudsman for a Decision?

I'm afraid my view doesn't change. You are better off financially by not porting the loan which your lender wasn't obliged to port unless you passed their current underwriting criteria . You are not financially out of pocket.

You've lost nothing except your dignity when you became unable to pay back family members money which you owed them and you presumably promised them you would pay when you moved house.

I hate saying this but that is not the lender's fault

[LippyKid]

Re: Selling house with a secured loan

Hi Plan B thanks for responding, I understand your view and I agree with you in part namely that we are not financially out of pocket although am in another sense as the debt owed is now a different dynamic I personally feel much more pressure owing family members than with any mortgage co, plus I have to do this to show we were not being deceitful in the first place.

This would have been avoided if FP had asked relevant questions in the first place anyway this going over old ground, I have enjoyed your input all through this thread and to answer your 1st Q yes it went to the adjudicator and it was them who have responded but I'm not clear on the practice they used, I have spoken to them since the post I made above and they have indicated to me that they haven't used the one piece of evidence that would show clearly whether we would be vindicated or that we were in error to make the complaint in the first place.

So I wanted clarification on whether I can legally demand they provide me the information they used to come to their decision.