Need advice with Mortgage problem

[CleverClogs (RIP)]

Re: Need advice with Mortgage problem

They've sent you Ts & Cs from 2012 which are not the same thing as Ts & Cs from when you entered into the contract in 2002. Mortgage Ts & Cs cannot be varied (except by a court) so those Ts & Cs are probably meaningless since they weren't in existence when you signed the original contract.

It is certainly difficult to understand why those Terms and Conditions could be considered part of a contract entered into a decade earlier.

You told me your home has beach access so the summer is an ideal time for marketing as it should have dried out from the autumnal flooding by then.

I've fixed your post for you.

[PlanB]

Re: Need advice with Mortgage problem

To buy and/or to waste time.

Exactly! This isn't about the ICO or the FOS it's about the OP fighting off repossession of his home.

The object of the exercise is to trick the bank into admitting they haven't got the documents which they need to prove that he has to pay off his Reserve Account now that his associated mortgage term has expired. So far so good.

A year messing about at the FOS will give the OP ample time to sell his property which is currently on the market and he is willing to do. Oddly enough the last thing the OP wants is for Barclays to come up with the documents.

Exclus is building a case and laying a paper trail. Barclays is busy digging a big hole for itself, long may it continue

[CleverClogs (RIP)]

Re: Need advice with Mortgage problem

Well if they've accepted your complaint and made an offer why do you want to go to the FOS?

Makes no sense....?

the ICO are powerless to an extent so usually you use their decision to help with the FOS but if the bank admit the fault and offer a payout why bother with FOS?

To buy and/or to waste time.

[CleverClogs (RIP)]

Re: Need advice with Mortgage problem

Just a small point in that the reserve account is not unsecured, as they hold the deeds

But do they?

Apart from the legal charge on the house recorded at the Land Registry, they might retain nothing at all and may well have destroyed the physical deeds.

[Never-In-Doubt]

Re: Need advice with Mortgage problem

Well if they've accepted your complaint and made an offer why do you want to go to the FOS?

Makes no sense....?

the ICO are powerless to an extent so usually you use their decision to help with the FOS but if the bank admit the fault and offer a payout why bother with FOS?

[Exclus]

Re: Need advice with Mortgage problem

Yes, it was their final response, and they did include a leaflet for the FOS. No deadline to accept/reject. I can email you the response if it helps, as I can fully understand it's hard offering advice if you don't know the full story.

[PlanB]

Re: Need advice with Mortgage problem

It was rather more that I had received a reply from the ICO that PlanB was going to get Niddy's thoughts on the reply.

I've sent Niddy a message about this ICO issue.

You may need to send a SAR to discover what the bank have/haven't got.

Did the bank's letter in response to your complaint (which you didn't make) say that it was their "Final Response" with the FOS leaflet included in the envelope? Was there a deadline to accept/reject their offer of compensation?

[Exclus]

Re: Need advice with Mortgage problem

It was rather more that I had received a reply from the ICO that PlanB was going to get Niddy's thoughts on the reply. Also, can anyone offer any thoughts on the reply I have received from the bank (post 57), and copied below:

Received a bundle from the bank containing various documents on when the mortgage was taken out - mostly their internal forms etc. Plus a set of copied T&C's which have no date on them. They say they searched the archives for these. Looking back in my files, I have in fact found our original offer letter - strange this is not included in the bundle they have just sent on.

However there was also a letter about my complaint. They completely agree with my complaint, on every point, and have made an offer of money to apologise. Am I right to smell a rat about this, and are they trying to stop me complaining to the FOS. My problem is that if they agree that the service they have offered is poor etc, and have now offered to compensate, what on earth can I complain to the FOS about.
Any thoughts on this would be appreciated

I have up to now not had any dealings with the FOS, and therefore need advice on the above. The bank have said that they will not stop the collection procedure in the meantime.
.

[PlanB]

Re: Need advice with Mortgage problem

You called.....?

Exclus needs clarity on whether the bank (Barclays) and his mortgage lender (Woolwich subsidiary of Barclays) should have retained the original documents relating to his application for two products which are interlinked and still 'live' now?

He needs to know because his mortgage term has expired and they are pressurizing him to sell his home (threatening repossession) to pay off the balance outstanding on his linked Reserve Account (about £80k) which they say is a term of the original loan i.e. simultaneous closure. If no one has got a copy of the original paperwork they may not be able to prove that he has to pay it off now that the mortgage term has expired.

The mortgage is still 'live' with a debit balance of 0.52p which is hardly the sort of sum a DJ would grant a possession order for. While it's still 'live' it hasn't closed (if you follow me). They could credit it with 0.52p and close it I suppose.

He is keeping up with the interest payments and a little bit more on his Reserve account so it's not defaulted. Without the original documents who is to say that the Reserve account facility can be withdrawn.

I hope that makes sense.

[Never-In-Doubt]

Re: Need advice with Mortgage problem

Have you heard anything from Niddy on the ICO letter as yet?.

You called.....?

[Exclus]

Re: Need advice with Mortgage problem

PlanB - Have you heard anything from Niddy on the ICO letter as yet?

Received a bundle from the bank containing various documents on when the mortgage was taken out - mostly their internal forms etc. Plus a set of copied T&C's which have no date on them. They say they searched the archives for these. Looking back in my files, I have in fact found our original offer letter - strange this is not included in the bundle they have just sent on.

However there was also a letter about my complaint. They completely agree with my complaint, on every point, and have made an offer of money to apologise. Am I right to smell a rat about this, and are they trying to stop me complaining to the FOS. My problem is that if they agree that the service they have offered is poor etc, and have now offered to compensate, what on earth can I complain to the FOS about.
Any thoughts on this would be appreciated.

[Exclus]

Re: Need advice with Mortgage problem

Common sense says that all documentation should be kept until all dealings have been finished. However it seems that this is not Barclays/Woolwich practice.
Just a small point in that the reserve account is not unsecured, as they hold the deeds, and that therefore the mortgage and the reserve account are in their view as one. Albeit that the mortgage is in the name of Woolwich, and the reserve account was transferred from the Woolwich to a Barclays account.

[pompeyfaith]

Re: Need advice with Mortgage problem

You're laying an excellent paper trail. Let's get some more confessions out of them first before you make your complaint to the ICO. It's possible that you don't want to put pressure on them to find the paperwork just like in a CCA request situation.

The bottom line is they've admitted that they haven't got any of the documents they need to rely on if they want to take you to court for the Reserve account. Thank God for that. Let's hope it stays that way. As it stands how can they prove you entered into a contract with them which says an unsecured 'draw down' account facility must be paid off when another product (i.e. your mortgage) is paid off?

They've sent you Ts & Cs from 2012 which are not the same thing as Ts & Cs from when you entered into the contract in 2002. Mortgage Ts & Cs cannot be varied (except by a court) so those Ts & Cs are probably meaningless since they weren't in existence when you signed the original contract. This needs to be double-checked.

Let's think of more question to ask them to buy you time until you get your house under offer. I'd be gobsmacked if they issued possession proceedings for £1.24 arrears. I'll lend you the money if that happens!

You told me your home has beach access so the summer is an ideal time for marketing.

I would argue that both sets of documents for the mortgage and reserve account should have to be kept until both are paid off as one is linked to the other i.e you cannot get a reserve account without a mortgage.

For you they have done themselves a dis-service by not keeping all documents as they will find proof hard to obtain which for them should be a simple process.

[Exclus]

Re: Need advice with Mortgage problem

OK - let's see what thoughts Niddy has on this. Haven't heard anything from the Woolwich as yet, but presumably the ICO will let them know they have 'rejected' my complaint.

[PlanB]

Re: Need advice with Mortgage problem

Have you had a chance to look at the ICO letter as yet?

Yes I have

I'm going to ask Niddy for his opinion because I think she may have missed the point.

She says "the information contained in the Terms & Conditions of the contract would not have been personal data. This is because personal data is data which relates to a living individual who can be identified from that data."

She then says that parts of the Ts & Cs may have contained your personal data but since the bank has no longer kept the documents then there's nothing the ICO can do about it now.

Actually I do sort of see her point in that she can't force the bank to provide you with information which they no longer hold.

But I thought the issue was they shouldn't have destroyed the information. Then she says that it's largely up to the organization to decide how long to retain documents and they are "best placed" to decide how long is "necessary" which is a bit of a cop out. Since your mortgage and bank account are still live I would have thought it "necessary" for the bank to retain all documents until they're closed (and a bit beyond).

She finishes by saying that if you feel the bank should have kept the paperwork then you should complain to the FOS. What she doesn't say is that she will ask the bank to send you everything they have got on these accounts.

Let's see what Niddy has to say about this.