Need advice with Mortgage problem

[PlanB]

Re: Need advice with Mortgage problem

In the last letter of 8th July 2014 they state that £1.24 is still owing, so presumably it's still live and they should have been able to forward on the documents I have asked for ie copy of the mortgage contract etc. In any event the mortgage term ended in 2012 so that means that they still should have kept these records.
Not sure if this has any bearing with respect to the mortgage current account reserve in any way.

You're laying an excellent paper trail. Let's get some more confessions out of them first before you make your complaint to the ICO. It's possible that you don't want to put pressure on them to find the paperwork just like in a CCA request situation.

The bottom line is they've admitted that they haven't got any of the documents they need to rely on if they want to take you to court for the Reserve account. Thank God for that. Let's hope it stays that way. As it stands how can they prove you entered into a contract with them which says an unsecured 'draw down' account facility must be paid off when another product (i.e. your mortgage) is paid off?

They've sent you Ts & Cs from 2012 which are not the same thing as Ts & Cs from when you entered into the contract in 2002. Mortgage Ts & Cs cannot be varied (except by a court) so those Ts & Cs are probably meaningless since they weren't in existence when you signed the original contract. This needs to be double-checked.

Let's think of more question to ask them to buy you time until you get your house under offer. I'd be gobsmacked if they issued possession proceedings for £1.24 arrears. I'll lend you the money if that happens!

You told me your home has beach access so the summer is an ideal time for marketing.

[Never-In-Doubt]

Re: Need advice with Mortgage problem

I'd complain to the ICO and argue the fact that the bank are refusing to send documents on a live product citing they only need to supply the last 6 years which is preposterous because the information I'm after relates to the sale of the product and associated communication at outset and throughout.

Thats the way you'd be arguing with the ICO

[Exclus]

Re: Need advice with Mortgage problem

Going off at a tangent a little, I just want to thank everyone who has taken the time to look at this thread, and offer help and guidance. It's a real breathe of fresh air that others offer help to those who need it without thoughts of any recompense. Where would we all be without this fantastic forum.

[Exclus]

Re: Need advice with Mortgage problem

Thanks Niddy - In the last letter of 8th July 2014 they state that £1.24 is still owing, so presumably it's still live and they should have been able to forward on the documents I have asked for ie copy of the mortgage contract etc. In any event the mortgage term ended in 2012 so that means that they still should have kept these records.
Not sure if this has any bearing with respect to the mortgage current account reserve in any way.

[Never-In-Doubt]

Re: Need advice with Mortgage problem

Received a letter today, the gist is this:

'As per our policy, the maximum period we are required to hold documents relating to the mortgage is 6 years. As the mortgage was issued in 2002, we no longer hold documents relating to your mortgage application or the mortgage offer letter'

They also enclosed the Mortgage Current Account Terms and Conditions (England and Wales 2012 Edition), in which it does state that 'When your Loans are repaid in full any amounts outstanding under the Mortgage Current Account Reserve must be repaid at the same time'.

Any thoughts on how I should reply to this? The house is still on the market - a little interest, but no offers as yet.

is the mortgage live? If so they MUST retain ALL documents.

If it's dead / moved they only keep documents as per HMRC & ICO - so in theory for +6yrs from end of mortgage.

[Never-In-Doubt]

Re: Need advice with Mortgage problem

DPA states that ALL relevant documents must be retained for a period of "no longer than is necessary for the reason for processing". HMRC rules state documents should be retained for at least 6 years after the end of the relationship (for inspection).


So in layman it means that if there's a live account ALL relevant paperwork must be retained. If there's a closed account they must retain any relevant paperwork for as long as necessary but no longer than +6 years. If an account is long dead then only basic details need to be retained such as details of the products / legal stuff / agreements etc.


hmrc -> http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/manuals/chmanual/ch14600.htm

Section 388 Companies Act 2006 contains its own period for which a company’s accounting records, see CH11400, must be retained. A public limited company (plc) must retain its accounting records for 6 years from the date they are made, whilst a private company (not a plc) must retain its accounting records for 3 years from the date they are made. For a private limited company, tax law requires records to be kept for a longer period so the only records they can destroy at the 3 year point are ones that it does not need for the purposes of completing a company tax return.

ico -> http://ico.org.uk/for_organisations/...ds/principle_5

Personal data processed for any purpose or purposes shall not be kept for longer than is necessary for that purpose or those purposes.

[Tuttsi]

Re: Need advice with Mortgage problem

With Mortgages they should keep documents for 10 years. so I cannot see how they have disposed of them.

[Exclus]

Re: Need advice with Mortgage problem

Thanks for your quick response. The letter finishes off - If we can be of any further assistance please do not hesitate to contact us on the above telephone number. No specific time to reply.
In the previous letter from the collections department the balance shown as owing on the mortgage was £1.24. So I suppose in theory the mortgage is still active. In previous letters I have disputed this, as I say it is fully paid, but perhaps it's better that there is a debit balance still owing.

[PlanB]

Re: Need advice with Mortgage problem

'As per our policy, the maximum period we are required to hold documents relating to the mortgage is 6 years. As the mortgage was issued in 2002, we no longer hold documents relating to your mortgage application or the mortgage offer letter'

They also enclosed the Mortgage Current Account Terms and Conditions (England and Wales 2012 Edition), in which it does state that 'When your Loans are repaid in full any amounts outstanding under the Mortgage Current Account Reserve must be repaid at the same time'.

Didn't you say that your mortgage account was still effectively 'live' with a £1.43p negative balance? In which case how can they possibly say they're not obliged to keep all documentation which is older than six years? Let me get someone else to comment on that.

Those Ts & Cs say "when your loans are repaid in full" the Reserve account must be repaid. But if you've got a negative balance on that mortgage iut hasn't been repaid in full has it?

Was there any threat at the end of their letter or did it simply invite your response with no specific deadline?

[Exclus]

Re: Need advice with Mortgage problem

Received a letter today, the gist is this:

'As per our policy, the maximum period we are required to hold documents relating to the mortgage is 6 years. As the mortgage was issued in 2002, we no longer hold documents relating to your mortgage application or the mortgage offer letter'

They also enclosed the Mortgage Current Account Terms and Conditions (England and Wales 2012 Edition), in which it does state that 'When your Loans are repaid in full any amounts outstanding under the Mortgage Current Account Reserve must be repaid at the same time'.

Any thoughts on how I should reply to this? The house is still on the market - a little interest, but no offers as yet.

[Exclus]

Re: Need advice with Mortgage problem

You are probably correct!
Don't think we will hear anything for a few weeks - they usually take 3/4 weeks to reply to anything.
Thanks for your prompt reply, it's nice to know that we can call upon others for advice. I'll update as and when we get something back from them.

[PlanB]

Re: Need advice with Mortgage problem

not as yet sent on any of the documents - copy mortgage agreement, T & C's of the reserve account that we have requested in our recorded delivery letter of a few weeks ago.
Seems strange that they don't just send on what we have asked for.

Maybe that's because they can't find them. They'd be in some difficulty repossessing your home if they can't prove that they have a mortgage and/or reserve account secured by it

They would need to prove a breach of contract so obviously they'd have to produce that contract in court. You've paid off your mortgage so everything will probably hinge on the terms of that reserve account.

[Exclus]

Re: Need advice with Mortgage problem

Update:
Received a letter from the Bank today saying they had tried unsuccessfully to contact us by telephone, so have asked us to phone them. I will reply that everything needs to be in writing, and that they have not as yet sent on any of the documents - copy mortgage agreement, T & C's of the reserve account that we have requested in our recorded delivery letter of a few weeks ago.
Seems strange that they don't just send on what we have asked for.

[Exclus]

Re: Need advice with Mortgage problem

That's right - always paid on time and never missed a payment.

[PlanB]

Re: Need advice with Mortgage problem

We continue to pay an amount to cover the interest and reduce the reserve account, and will do until the house is sold - never missing a payment or being late.

Which presumably means you've never had a default notice because the account has never defaulted.