Need advice with Mortgage problem

[Exclus]

Re: Need advice with Mortgage problem

Thanks for your continued help and support. I'm sure that I'll receive something from the collections department, as they do not seem to read anything that I've ever sent to them, and just continue to send out letters from a pre-written library.not answering any of my points.

[PlanB]

Re: Need advice with Mortgage problem

Thanks for your continued help and support. I'm sure that I'll receive something from the collections department, as they do not seem to read anything that I've ever sent to them, and just continue to send out letters from a pre-written library.not answering any of my points.

I've finally got my dedicated AAD email account up and running (only after I sent Niddy an SOS and he spent nearly three hours sorting it for me this afternoon ).

So I've now got your previous detailed email and I'll read it over the next couple of days to make sure I haven't missed anything.

[Exclus]

Re: Need advice with Mortgage problem

Morning All.
Heard back from Woolwich, about 10 days ago, saying they were investigating my complaint and hoped to be back to me by the 17th August, and also an acknowledgement from ICO that they had received my complaint.
Now I think I have explained that for this 'reserve account' we were issued a cheque book to use as and when we needed to, up to a limit. Obviously we haven't used this account for a couple of years, since the problems began. It's a joint account for myself and my wife, with both of us named on the cheque book. However, yesterday, my wife received two new cheque books for this account with only her name on the account.
It may be nothing but a mistake, but it seems strange that this has occurred just when things are coming to a head. I just don't trust the buggers!

[PlanB]

Re: Need advice with Mortgage problem

That's all good news as far as you're concerned. You wanted to buy yourself time to sell your home and you've got it by making a formal complaint to the Woolwich which you can (and should) take to the FOS. While that's trundling through the system it's unlikely they'll do anything aggressive towards you if you carry on making repayments to cover the interest each month - and a tiny bit more if you can manage it.

If you hear from the Collections Team post up immediately.

If they send you any documents then post up here immediately too so we can scrutinize them.

I think you're in for a long wait

[Exclus]

Re: Need advice with Mortgage problem

I didn't actually make a complaint to the Woolwich - just informed them that I was referring it to the ICO for consideration and advice. The Woolwich took this as a complaint and responded to me as if it were.
Are you saying that if they respond by denying that they have done anything wrong in not keeping the original contract etc , then I have grounds take it to the FOS, which will put everything on hold for some time?
PlanB - Just had the reply from the ICO which I would like to send on to you by email for your thoughts, if that's OK.

[PlanB]

Re: Need advice with Mortgage problem

Send it to my AAD email planb@all-about-debt.co.uk and I'll take a look at it after the weekend

[Exclus]

Re: Need advice with Mortgage problem

Have you had a chance to look at the ICO letter as yet?

[PlanB]

Re: Need advice with Mortgage problem

Have you had a chance to look at the ICO letter as yet?

Yes I have

I'm going to ask Niddy for his opinion because I think she may have missed the point.

She says "the information contained in the Terms & Conditions of the contract would not have been personal data. This is because personal data is data which relates to a living individual who can be identified from that data."

She then says that parts of the Ts & Cs may have contained your personal data but since the bank has no longer kept the documents then there's nothing the ICO can do about it now.

Actually I do sort of see her point in that she can't force the bank to provide you with information which they no longer hold.

But I thought the issue was they shouldn't have destroyed the information. Then she says that it's largely up to the organization to decide how long to retain documents and they are "best placed" to decide how long is "necessary" which is a bit of a cop out. Since your mortgage and bank account are still live I would have thought it "necessary" for the bank to retain all documents until they're closed (and a bit beyond).

She finishes by saying that if you feel the bank should have kept the paperwork then you should complain to the FOS. What she doesn't say is that she will ask the bank to send you everything they have got on these accounts.

Let's see what Niddy has to say about this.

[Exclus]

Re: Need advice with Mortgage problem

OK - let's see what thoughts Niddy has on this. Haven't heard anything from the Woolwich as yet, but presumably the ICO will let them know they have 'rejected' my complaint.

[pompeyfaith]

Re: Need advice with Mortgage problem

You're laying an excellent paper trail. Let's get some more confessions out of them first before you make your complaint to the ICO. It's possible that you don't want to put pressure on them to find the paperwork just like in a CCA request situation.

The bottom line is they've admitted that they haven't got any of the documents they need to rely on if they want to take you to court for the Reserve account. Thank God for that. Let's hope it stays that way. As it stands how can they prove you entered into a contract with them which says an unsecured 'draw down' account facility must be paid off when another product (i.e. your mortgage) is paid off?

They've sent you Ts & Cs from 2012 which are not the same thing as Ts & Cs from when you entered into the contract in 2002. Mortgage Ts & Cs cannot be varied (except by a court) so those Ts & Cs are probably meaningless since they weren't in existence when you signed the original contract. This needs to be double-checked.

Let's think of more question to ask them to buy you time until you get your house under offer. I'd be gobsmacked if they issued possession proceedings for £1.24 arrears. I'll lend you the money if that happens!

You told me your home has beach access so the summer is an ideal time for marketing.

I would argue that both sets of documents for the mortgage and reserve account should have to be kept until both are paid off as one is linked to the other i.e you cannot get a reserve account without a mortgage.

For you they have done themselves a dis-service by not keeping all documents as they will find proof hard to obtain which for them should be a simple process.

[Exclus]

Re: Need advice with Mortgage problem

Common sense says that all documentation should be kept until all dealings have been finished. However it seems that this is not Barclays/Woolwich practice.
Just a small point in that the reserve account is not unsecured, as they hold the deeds, and that therefore the mortgage and the reserve account are in their view as one. Albeit that the mortgage is in the name of Woolwich, and the reserve account was transferred from the Woolwich to a Barclays account.

[Exclus]

Re: Need advice with Mortgage problem

PlanB - Have you heard anything from Niddy on the ICO letter as yet?

Received a bundle from the bank containing various documents on when the mortgage was taken out - mostly their internal forms etc. Plus a set of copied T&C's which have no date on them. They say they searched the archives for these. Looking back in my files, I have in fact found our original offer letter - strange this is not included in the bundle they have just sent on.

However there was also a letter about my complaint. They completely agree with my complaint, on every point, and have made an offer of money to apologise. Am I right to smell a rat about this, and are they trying to stop me complaining to the FOS. My problem is that if they agree that the service they have offered is poor etc, and have now offered to compensate, what on earth can I complain to the FOS about.
Any thoughts on this would be appreciated.

[Never-In-Doubt]

Re: Need advice with Mortgage problem

Have you heard anything from Niddy on the ICO letter as yet?.

You called.....?

[PlanB]

Re: Need advice with Mortgage problem

You called.....?

Exclus needs clarity on whether the bank (Barclays) and his mortgage lender (Woolwich subsidiary of Barclays) should have retained the original documents relating to his application for two products which are interlinked and still 'live' now?

He needs to know because his mortgage term has expired and they are pressurizing him to sell his home (threatening repossession) to pay off the balance outstanding on his linked Reserve Account (about £80k) which they say is a term of the original loan i.e. simultaneous closure. If no one has got a copy of the original paperwork they may not be able to prove that he has to pay it off now that the mortgage term has expired.

The mortgage is still 'live' with a debit balance of 0.52p which is hardly the sort of sum a DJ would grant a possession order for. While it's still 'live' it hasn't closed (if you follow me). They could credit it with 0.52p and close it I suppose.

He is keeping up with the interest payments and a little bit more on his Reserve account so it's not defaulted. Without the original documents who is to say that the Reserve account facility can be withdrawn.

I hope that makes sense.

[Exclus]

Re: Need advice with Mortgage problem

It was rather more that I had received a reply from the ICO that PlanB was going to get Niddy's thoughts on the reply. Also, can anyone offer any thoughts on the reply I have received from the bank (post 57), and copied below:

Received a bundle from the bank containing various documents on when the mortgage was taken out - mostly their internal forms etc. Plus a set of copied T&C's which have no date on them. They say they searched the archives for these. Looking back in my files, I have in fact found our original offer letter - strange this is not included in the bundle they have just sent on.

However there was also a letter about my complaint. They completely agree with my complaint, on every point, and have made an offer of money to apologise. Am I right to smell a rat about this, and are they trying to stop me complaining to the FOS. My problem is that if they agree that the service they have offered is poor etc, and have now offered to compensate, what on earth can I complain to the FOS about.
Any thoughts on this would be appreciated

I have up to now not had any dealings with the FOS, and therefore need advice on the above. The bank have said that they will not stop the collection procedure in the meantime.
.