Selling rented property

[PlanB]

Re: Selling rented property

I have today posted off ( recorded ) the deposit paperwork with an accompanying letter asking them to sign and return in the stamped envelope supplied

Let the dust settle on that before you make your next move. If your Tenants are going to react over your delayed action to place their deposits in a scheme then they'll probably do it straight away.

Next you need to think about why you want to get rid of your Tenant? Is it because of the rent arrears or is it because you want to tart up the flat before selling?

If it's the rent arrears can you tell me why you think she's got into arrears all of a sudden after years of paying on time? Has there been a job loss and can she claim HB? It is possible to sell a property with a Tenant in situ. In fact it's a dream come true for an investor to have a ready-made Tenant (they won't know she doesn't pay her rent on time . . . ) which could be an advantage.

[GlobalC]

Re: Selling rented property

Next you need to think about why you want to get rid of your Tenant? Is it because of the rent arrears or is it because you want to tart up the flat before selling?

The main reason why i have to sell is because of my financial affairs, basically i am worried that someone ( debt collector ) will get a CO on the properties and then everyone loses out. I am planning on leaving the country next year for a period of time and don't want to have to worry about these flats.

If it's the rent arrears can you tell me why you think she's got into arrears all of a sudden after years of paying on time? Has there been a job loss and can she claim HB? It is possible to sell a property with a Tenant in situ. In fact it's a dream come true for an investor to have a ready-made Tenant (they won't know she doesn't pay her rent on time . . . ) which could be an advantage

The tenant got into rent arrears around October last year, at first she just said sorry and that she would pay it off, around January this year the tenant was getting close to being 2 months in arrears so I questioned what was going on, they said they had lost their job but were hopeful that another job was around the corner. Since then they have been paying weekly rather than monthly although the weekly amounts vary and don't quite pay enough to cover that months rent let alone the arrears.

I had the flats valued and the value to sell them as with them in situ was a lot worse than selling on the open market, it is possible that my business partner who unofficially owns one of the flats could buy them from me although he hasn't said yay or nay just to get them valued and get rid of the tenant in arrears.

[PlanB]

Re: Selling rented property

around January this year the tenant was getting close to being 2 months in arrears so I questioned what was going on, they said they had lost their job but were hopeful that another job was around the corner. Since then they have been paying weekly rather than monthly although the weekly amounts vary and don't quite pay enough to cover that months rent let alone the arrears.

I'm glad I asked that question. If she's lost her job she's probably claiming Housing Benefit which is paid every two weeks in arrears but nothing towards previous rent arrears. That could explain why her rent payments are random. If she is currently 8 weeks or more in arrears you can apply to your local council to get the HB paid direct to you as Landlord. That way you'll have the security of payment while you seek possession and evict her which can take 3 - 5 months if she resists.

If she is on HB then the minute you serve that Section 21 Notice she will probably go to Housing Options for advice. They will tell her to sit tight until she's evicted.

If she's on HB then your "goodwill gesture" may not work because if you waive her outstanding rent and she's received HB for any of that period she would either have to pay it back to the Council or risk being accused of benefit fraud (receiving money she's not entitled to because you haven't 'demanded' it). She could argue that the rent arrears were before she signed-on but none of us know if that's true or not until she tells you.

I know I'm sounding all doom and gloom but I think it's best that you're given all the facts and possible scenarios so you can make an informed decision what to do.

I don't know the woman so I can't tell you how to handle this. But if I were in your shoes I would go with a charm offensive because she's going to be on the defensive if you hit her with a Section 21. If I were in your shoes I would make a gentle phone call (next week) to say that you've decided to sell the flat for personal reasons and want to work out the best way to make sure that she has a smooth transition to her next place. I would say that she'll be getting a Section 21 Notice of Possession in a few days time, but not to take it personally. Tell her you have to do that as a professional Landlord but you're willing to be flexible over the outdate to suit her. That way you're working with her not against her.

If the conversation opens up then try to find a way to establish whether she's on Housing Benefit without making her feel patronised. What you have to keep in mind is that she holds all the cards at the moment.

[patchouli]

Re: Selling rented property

But if I were in your shoes I would go with a charm offensive because she's going to be on the defensive if you hit her with a Section 21. If I were in your shoes I would make a gentle phone call (next week) to say that you've decided to sell the flat for personal reasons and want to work out the best way to make sure that she has a smooth transition to her next place. I would say that she'll be getting a Section 21 Notice of Possession in a few days time, but not to take it personally. Tell her you have to do that as a professional Landlord but you're willing to be flexible over the outdate to suit her. That way you're working with her not against her.

If the conversation opens up then try to find a way to establish whether she's on Housing Benefit without making her feel patronised. What you have to keep in mind is that she holds all the cards at the moment.

oohh you made me want to applaud.. you are SO good at this!!!

One thing though... wouldn't the above be better in writing? Or is it intended to be 'off the record'?

[GlobalC]

Re: Selling rented property

It's a tough one, she does seem to be out during the daytime which would indicate she's at work but i guess i will never know for sure unless she tells me.

If the conversation opens up then try to find a way to establish whether she's on Housing Benefit without making her feel patronised. What you have to keep in mind is that she holds all the cards at the moment.

I find this absolutely ridiculous as I'm sure most other landlords do. Yes I didn't do everything by the book but at the end of the day it's my property not there's, you'd have thought giving 2 months notice you want the property back is sufficient time, I appreciate its a pain moving but that's part of life if you don't own your own home! How the courts seem to favour the tenant is beyond me especially if there in arrears!

I will sit tight for a week and hatch some sort of plan

[PlanB]

Re: Selling rented property

oohh you made me want to applaud.. you are SO good at this!!!

You're just saying that

Actually if you want to run my Fan Club send me your CV and I'll look at it favourably

[patchouli]

Re: Selling rented property

You're just saying that

Actually if you want to run my Fan Club send me your CV and I'll look at it favourably

LMAO!!! If I sent you my CV you'd end up having to pay... yuh yuh I'm THAT good...lmao

;-P

[GlobalC]

Re: Selling rented property

Hello all, so to update I have now received back the signed deposit paperwork without any hassles! so I guess I should now send a text or call to the first tenant to let them know I am selling the flats and to expect a section 21 as plan B said?

[GlobalC]

Re: Selling rented property

Hi all, so this week i have spoken with the tenant I want to get out first and explained that I need to sell the flats for personal reasons pretty much as Plan B said. I said that next week she should expect a section 21 notice. How do i do this and is their any special requirements seeing as the tenancy as already on a periodic?

Her initial reaction was not to bad! and asked if i would be selling with them in situ!!! (not likely love seeing as your way behind in payments who wants to take on that sort of tenant )

[GlobalC]

Re: Selling rented property

Section 21 sent off today via recorded delivery

[PlanB]

Re: Selling rented property

Section 21 sent off today via recorded delivery

That's good news. You've got the deposit insured and the associated paperwork signed by the Tenant so now your section 21 Notice will do the job.

What is the next rent due date according to the AST? The s.21 Notice should give a Periodic Tenant 2 months notice that you want to take possession on or after a specific date which must be at least two months after the next rent due date.

I'm not sure what the rent arrears situation is but be prepared for the Tenant to stop paying when they get this notice. Some do especially when they know you've got their deposit and they're scared they won't get it back.

Are you going to give her a call to tell her it's on the way and would she like to discuss a leaving date with you before it expires in return for some leeway on the rent? This is something you definitely don't want to put in writing at this stage in case she goes to a law centre which encourages her to dig her heels in and wait to be evicted (3-5 months). Whatever happens don't sound desperate to get her out because that will make her realize how strong her legal position is.

I note she asked if you were going to sell the flat with her in situ. Have you done the maths to balance the price you would get with her in it and the price you would get once she has gone and you are no longer getting rent and will have splurged out money on upgrading the place?

[GlobalC]

Re: Selling rented property

That's good news. You've got the deposit insured and the associated paperwork signed by the Tenant so now your section 21 Notice will do the job.

What is the next rent due date according to the AST? The s.21 Notice should give a Periodic Tenant 2 months notice that you want to take possession on or after a specific date which must be at least two months after the next rent due date.

I'm not sure what the rent arrears situation is but be prepared for the Tenant to stop paying when they get this notice. Some do especially when they know you've got their deposit and they're scared they won't get it back.

Are you going to give her a call to tell her it's on the way and would she like to discuss a leaving date with you before it expires in return for some leeway on the rent? This is something you definitely don't want to put in writing at this stage in case she goes to a law centre which encourages her to dig her heels in and wait to be evicted (3-5 months). Whatever happens don't sound desperate to get her out because that will make her realize how strong her legal position is.

I note she asked if you were going to sell the flat with her in situ. Have you done the maths to balance the price you would get with her in it and the price you would get once she has gone and you are no longer getting rent and will have splurged out money on upgrading the place?

I will probably look to speak with her in the next week about finding some leeway! however I am prepared to have to wait 5 months if need be the rent from the other flat almost covers both mortgages so its not too bad!

[GlobalC]

Re: Selling rented property

Hello Everyone

Quick update, Today I have accepted a full asking price offer on the ground floor flat with the tenant in situ

The top floor flat has until 25th July to clear off, hasn't made a single payment for awhile now - even though I had a message to say they were now in full time employment and would start to pay off the arrears. The guy who offered on the ground floor could be interested in the top floor as well so all good in the hood!

[PlanB]

Re: Selling rented property

That's excellent news

It could mean that you don't have to shell out any more money on tarting up the other flat if he's interested in buying that one too. I bet you're glad you didn't evict that tenant to carry out expensive refurbishment work. You've served her with a lawful Section 21 Notice so you can claim all the rent arrears through the county court when she goes, or start possession proceedings on 25th July if she doesn't.

Maybe it's a good idea to tell the ground floor flat tenant that you've had an offer from a buyer who wants to keep her. Otherwise she may have been spooked when it was put on the market and decide to give you one month's notice.

[GlobalC]

Re: Selling rented property

That's excellent news

It could mean that you don't have to shell out any more money on tarting up the other flat if he's interested in buying that one too. I bet you're glad you didn't evict that tenant to carry out expensive refurbishment work. You've served her with a lawful Section 21 Notice so you can claim all the rent arrears through the county court when she goes, or start possession proceedings on 25th July if she doesn't.

Maybe it's a good idea to tell the ground floor flat tenant that you've had an offer from a buyer who wants to keep her. Otherwise she may have been spooked when it was put on the market and decide to give you one month's notice.

Thanks Plan B, well chuffed with this result. The tenant in the ground floor already knows I was going to try and sell it with her in situ, I made her aware though that if I didn't get the right offers she may have to leave. Low and behold i got full asking price with the first viewing!

I will still tart the other flat up because it will be presented better, therefore hopefully get another full asking price rather than giving them a bargaining chip #happydays