Rent arrears

[stuffthebanks]

A very good evening to you,
My daughter ended her tenancy with a housing association called Optivo around 4 years ago.
As far as we can remember she handed the keys back and paid in cash the balance owing on the rent.
This was paid in cash at the local office.
We cannot find the receipt.
My daughter left her forwarding address and her mobile phone number has not changed, they had both her number and mine on file as a next of kin contact.
She has just received out of the blue a demand for rent arrears of just over £400.
They noted on the letter dated 26th January they had written recently and received no reply.
This is not true, this is the first contact she has received.
They have given her 7 days to respond or further action will be taken.
My thoughts are to contact them to ask for some documented proof that this money is owed.
We need to contact her bank to obtain bank statements from 4 years ago to show payments were made... hopefully this is still possible with Yorkshire Bank now merged with Virgin bank.
This may take some time, so any advice meanwhile would be much appreciated.
The housing association who are claiming this money is owed is Southern Housing who having looked have awful reviews.
Many thanks in advance All the best
Steve

[Still Waving]

Odd that this demand should come just a few weeks after the two associations merged.

Ask them to prove it, with dates covered by the alleged arrears.

Your daughter's bank statements should still be available regardless of the bank merger.

[stuffthebanks]

Cheers
I wasn't aware the merger was that recent, very helpful to know.
Thanks for the advice.
All the best Steve

[stuffthebanks]

Just a quick follow up on this, would this be worth submitting a SAR.
Or is this me not understanding how rent arrears and demands for arrears work.

Thanks again guys
Steve

[Pat]

The cheapest way to get all statements from that dreadful company called Virgin Money is to send a SAR asking for all bank statements over a x period. You might want to ask for other statements as well.

If you SAR the housing associating I would make sure you include a request for the contract and letters/emails between

[stuffthebanks]

Hi Pat,
Thank you for the advice, it is much appreciated, its great to see this is still a brilliant place to find some calm among the madness in the world.
Many thanks
Steve

[The Tech Clerk]

Enter Date


Dear Sirs,


Reference:


Subject Access Request - S.7 Data Protection Act 1998


Under the Data Protection Act 1984 and 1998 also 2018 in particular to “Article 15 of the UK GDPR 2021.


Please supply me with a copy of all information your company hold on me including a list of accounts and details of payments along with copies of statements.


Under the Data Protection Act 1984 and 1998, and including the right of subject access under these acts, I hereby request that you supply me with any and all historical data in your possession which relates to me and that I am entitled to under section 7(1) of the Act.


If you store any of the older records on microfiche, please be aware that the Information Commissioner deems this to be a relevant filing system under the Act. As such, any microfiche data must be sent to me in fully legible and comprehensible form. To include any Microfilch records.

This is to include a request for the contract and letters/emails between parties hereto involved.

Additionally, where there has been any event in my account history over this period which has required manual intervention by any member of your staff, or any other person, I require disclosure of any indication or notes which have either caused or resulted in that manual intervention, or other evidence of that manual intervention in relation to my business with you.


If you are unable to supply this data because there has been no such manual intervention, then please be so kind as to confirm this in your response.


You have 30 days in which to comply.



Yours faithfully.


NOTE:- send and get free proof of posting update diary and keep copies on file. There is no charge for the DSAR request.

[stuffthebanks]

Brilliant,
Thanks for the update TC,
Much appreciated as always.
Steve

[Pat]

Hi
I have been thinking and just a few observations.

What will a SAR from VM show if the rent was paid in cash? If you are looking for a cash withdrawal, I guess this might be persuasive but not proof.

Then , when the contract and statements arrive, was there a notice period and did your daughter give that notice? Was you daughter in receipt of HB which is paid in arrears so maybe she received it and forgot this needed passing on. Did she go on to live in another HA property? Why did she leave, were their arrears. I know all these are difficult questions but may help work out why they think there is money owed. More than likely just a cock up.

[Still Waving]

Hi
I have been thinking and just a few observations.

What will a SAR from VM show if the rent was paid in cash? If you are looking for a cash withdrawal, I guess this might be persuasive but not proof.

Then , when the contract and statements arrive, was there a notice period and did your daughter give that notice? Was you daughter in receipt of HB which is paid in arrears so maybe she received it and forgot this needed passing on. Did she go on to live in another HA property? Why did she leave, were their arrears. I know all these are difficult questions but may help work out why they think there is money owed. More than likely just a cock up.

He only said the balance owing when the keys were handed back was paid in cash.

Some pertinent questions regarding the nature of the tenancy and clauses in the agreement.

Another pertinent question is why it took them 4 years to decide that she 'owed' some rent? If she paid what she was told was due on vacating then, 4 years later, I would suggest that it's hard luck to the HA.

Edit: Another question - Was there a tenancy deposit, and if so, did she get it back?

[stuffthebanks]

Hello Pat, SW,
Well, from memory, and a lot has happened in 4 years.
My daughter had the offer of a house with a different housing association.
As far as i can remember when she first obtained the tenancy from the flat, we paid a deposit, cant remember how much but think it was one month in advance.,
When this tenancy ended it was as per the agreement and timescale.
To be completely honest the service from Optivo was slapdash and very poor.
At the end of the tenancy, we were told to drop the keys off in a makeshift office in the local town, and pay £100 which was the amount outstanding on the rent.
As far as the deposit goes, that actually paid for the 1st month in advance.
Optivo said they would inspect the flat after she vacated and would be in touch if they were not happy with the condition of the property.
We knew that would not be an issue because we decorated the entire flat, it wasn't in need of, but we did this anyway.
My stance is as mentioned, its taken 4 years to highlight this....does this indicate just how poor Optivo were, or are Southern trying it on due to poor record keeping from the previous HA.
I have requested the SAR, and will look through that and update if that is ok.
Its difficult because this happened 4 years ago, my daughter has 2 children a broken relationship, and lots of paperwork has been destroyed over the years.
But fight on we will.

Thanks again you guys for the invaluable input.
Thanks
Steve

[Still Waving]

Thanks for the update Steve.

HAs may operate differently, but usually landlords require an up front deposit, against any possible cost of making good damage by the tenant. You say it was the first month rent in advance, which suggests that the rent continued to be payable monthly in advance. I may be assuming incorrectly as, if that was the case, there would not normally be a substantial sum (£100) payable on termination by the tenant?

EDIT.

I was just having a quick look on Rightmove at one of Southern Housing's (not Optivo, I know) flats for rent. The listing says "You will need to pay a deposit equal to one month's rent and pay one month's rent in advance of signing your tenancy agreement."

As I said, this is pretty standard for lettings. Something to look out for when you get your SAR info.

[Still Waving]

Further to previous post - on their website Optivo indicate that they do apply a deposit, and they use the Deposit Protection Scheme (DPS) whokeep deposit monies safe for letting agents, landlords and tenants.

[stuffthebanks]

Afternoon all,
Just a quick update response from Southern on rent arrears request / DEMAND.

They are advising this is a complex request due to the volume of data.
They will send data with 6 weeks of the date requested.

Nothing on the letter received from them yesterday confirming the demand for payment within 7 days has been put on hold.

Many thanks again
Steve

[The Tech Clerk]

How long do you have to comply with a subject access request? You must provide the information requested without delay and at the latest within one calendar month, from the first day after the request was received.


Failure of which a complaint to be lodged with the Information Commissioners Office., some complex matter have to be notified to the DSAR requester.


NOTE:- complex; or. you have received a number of requests from the individual – this can include other types of requests relating to individuals' rights. For example, if an individual has made a SAR, a request for erasure and a request for data portability simultaneous.

?You must comply with a SAR without undue delay and at the latest within one month of receiving the request. You can extend the time to respond by a further two months if the request is complex or you have received a number of requests from the individual, eg other types of requests relating to individuals' rights.

If after 30 days + 5 then go on line complain to ICO. anyway!