Cancelled Xmas Work Do - Venue being unreasonable

[SaltnVinegar]

Re: Cancelled Xmas Work Do - Venue being unreasonable

I also used to work in the hospitality industry, was a fellow member of the British Institute of Innkeeping (until I made the decision I was getting too old to be working 100 hour weeks!) and managed a pub with a t/o in excess of 3million a year. So I know the truth in the whole supply chain argument and it just isn't valid in this case.

The venue would not have placed an order with the brewery at this stage for beer/spirits etc. Most cellars simply aren't big enough to hold stock for weeks on end (and if they can then they can't be that busy).

The breweries deliver once/twice a week, and (for a cost) can make 'special deliveries' providing the order is a sufficient size. On the odd opportunities I got caught out I could make a trip to the local brewery and buy barrels direct (as can any licensee).

As far as other catering goes (food), I doubt the venue is paying any penalties to a supplier at this early stage. Even if they were this would be the ONLY valid loss I should think the venue could demonstrate.

Regards hiring extra staff. This would have been achieved by getting agency staff in. No venue would hire temp staff through an agency 3 months in advance. This would be something that would be done anything between 2-4 weeks before the event.

As for 40% based on drinks consumed the year before?!

ACTUALLY this is standard practice in hospitality ...

It may be standard practice at some venues and chains. It was also standard practice for banks to apply charges, mis-sell PPI, breach lending regulations, fix the LIBOR rate etc.

Unfortunately just because its standard practice, does not make it good practice, or even legal. I think there is room here at the very least for negotiation with the venue. Especially if they have ANY concern about reputation or repeat business (would you book this venue again after being treated so shoddily?)

Nov Dec is the BUSIEST times of year and people book over a year in advance

And many people don't. I was never short of people ringing up trying to organize last minute Christmas Parties. The venue manager, (if they are any good), should have taken details of any potential customer and could be ringing round seeing if they are still looking for a venue.

Check your contract you will probably see there are cancellation fees.

This is the only potential sticking point. However, this still doesn't prevent a consumer being protected by their statutory and legal rights.

40% of drinks is wrong. I have never seen a place do that...

Its more than wrong, its absolutely outrageous and is taking the warm smelly stuff! This on its own would be enough for me to never use this venue again.

Plus they could probably prove loss of earnings as they have booked a busy weekend day.??

Right - but they would have to prove an actual loss of earnings from the cancellation. What would happen, if, after the cancellation, their takings on the day of the booking are actually more than would be expected that time of year? Could there be a counterclaim against the venue that the cancellation actually was to their net benefit?

It'd be more prudent to allow the staff to continue with the booking themselves, with the business still footing 40% so the staff only pay the remainder 60% and still get their party and/or tell the venue they're sub-letting the party and then sell the booking themselves. The venue's terms will not usually account for such eventualities....

If, and I mean if, the venue are now willing to be reasonable on this then this is definately a way forward. If the company are trying to save money, then paying anything for nothing seems a little counter intuitive. Thats if everyone at the company is willing to pay the remainder 60%.

If there is no uplift or deposit required for the bar, I would be tempted to encourage staff to just use the venue for the meal, and then go somewhere else for drinks.

This is an interesting debate!!!!

Personally, I think if the venue manager has any concern at all about their reputation and future business, they should be taking a different approach here and looking at some sort of compromise that encourages future business.

If the company concerned has used the venue for many years I would be pointing this out, and the fact that they will not be using it again, and will also be telling other business owners in the area about their bad experience, ESPECIALLY over the 40% charge on drinks thing. Everyone in the hospitality industry is aware of the 10/1 rule on complaints!

Best
SnV

[SaltnVinegar]

Re: Cancelled Xmas Work Do - Venue being unreasonable

I will just add a caveat to above ^^^^

SXGuy - how many people was the Christmas Party for?

If its a couple of hundred then I would say everything thats been said by everyone is valid.

If it was for a couple of thousand then this may give the venue some more weight.

Best
SnV

[PlanB]

Re: Cancelled Xmas Work Do - Venue being unreasonable

Her work were planning a xmas do in November, and had hired the same place as last year.

Some of the directors thought it wasnt fair to spend money on a party when most of the staff wont be getting a wage increase this year, so they set to cancel it.

So they ring the venue that they had booked and said they would be cancelling.

.

Are these the same directors who now think it's fair to spend money on not having a party

If these directors are not giving the staff a wage increase this year then they've got a strange attitude to company morale if they cancel the Christmas party You don't buy staff loyalty that way

[jen_br]

Re: Cancelled Xmas Work Do - Venue being unreasonable

No chance. I'd never pay as its unlawful and unfair terms would protect me unless THEY provided proof of financial loss.
Sorry Jen you're on AAD hence you're going against the very thing we fight for - consumer rights

No legal right to charge it and the bank would honour a full chargeback on any deposit paid as well. The law is on our side here fortunately. I know you work in that industry but come on, this is a bog standard Xmas party - not like a wedding or specialised event - dont confuse the two!

No additional expense or bespoke items are necessary nor would the venue be a penny out of pocket at this stage.

ps Hilton cancellation policy:

That is for rooms Niddy... that is not for events. Trust me I was a chef there.

I am not going against what we stand for, but if you book something and cancel there is a cost.. I don't agree with the breakdown of the OP but I do agree some cost is due. The venue had to hold this date and missed out on other bookings. Xmas time is a caterings bread and butter.

Hey, it may not be right in your eyes but when you sign up for the TnC's of that venue you agree to them.

And number of people would be an indicator as well if this was an event for 300 or 10 it would be a big difference. 10 people are easily gobbled up but 300 people on a busy Saturday night during the Xmas rush... I would understand a cancellation fee.

[kilasuit]

Re: Cancelled Xmas Work Do - Venue being unreasonable

Also this is probably not a consumer issue as such, as the booking was made by a business, presumably a company rather than a sole trader... In which case regulations intended for consumer protection against unfair terms, etc. may not be applicable.

although in this case the business would still be a consumer so quite clearly would still be applicable

[Never-In-Doubt]

Re: Cancelled Xmas Work Do - Venue being unreasonable

If the intention was to save money, it would hardly make sense to THROW AWAY 40% of the estimated value of the Xmas Do in exchange for... zero, zip, zilch, nada! Under the circumstances, it would make more sense to go ahead with the party and at least get *something* for the money being spent.

As I suggested back in post 13!

[Never-In-Doubt]

Re: Cancelled Xmas Work Do - Venue being unreasonable

although in this case the business would still be a consumer so quite clearly would still be applicable

Exactly.

The key is really based on the following 2 questions;

1. How was it booked?
Phone, Internet, in person....

2. Was a deposit paid?
If so was it a personal or company card....

The answers to the above is all we need as everything else, going from numbers to dates becomes irrelevant.

Let's assume this was done over the phone by a manager/pa whatever using their own credit card. They'd simply cancel. No terms would have been provided and nothing signed. The venue loses - simples. They don't have a leg to stand on legally or otherwise.

Let's assume it was done in person or over the phone using a business card (very unlikely) - the same applies unless the venue provided terms and a cancellation clause.

Either way. The venue loses.

That's the facts. I don't care if it's normal or otherwise. The law is there for a reason.

[PlanB]

Re: Cancelled Xmas Work Do - Venue being unreasonable

Exactly.

The key is really based on the following 2 questions;

1. How was it booked?
Phone, Internet, in person....

2. Was a deposit paid?
If so was it a personal or company card....

The answers to the above is all we need as everything else, going from numbers to dates becomes irrelevant.

Let's assume this was done over the phone by a manager/pa whatever using their own credit card. They'd simply cancel. No terms would have been provided and nothing signed. The venue loses - simples. They don't have a leg to stand on legally or otherwise.

Let's assume it was done in person or over the phone using a business card (very unlikely) - the same applies unless the venue provided terms and a cancellation clause.

Either way. The venue loses.

That's the facts. I don't care if it's normal or otherwise. The law is there for a reason.

If it was booked over the phone would the Distance Selling Regulations 2000 come into play where you only have a limited time to cancel of 7 or 14 days? This is different for Business-2-Busness and consumers.

If a deposit was paid on a personal debit or credit card then would section 75 of the CCA kick in if the owner of the card has a subsequent dispute over a potential breach of contract they may have entered into?

http://forums.all-about-debt.co.uk/s...9&postcount=32


I think the company should simply go ahead with the Christmas party instead of turning litigious, because it's the poor overworked and underpaid staff that are the real losers not the venue or the directors - although they do sound like a bunch of losers to me

[PlanB]

Re: Cancelled Xmas Work Do - Venue being unreasonable

And if the staff have any sense they'll take their own half-bottles of vodka in their handbags to down in the ladies loo instead of paying the high prices at the venue's bar

Not that Plan B has ever done anything like that to get through a Christmas office party

[SXGuy]

Re: Cancelled Xmas Work Do - Venue being unreasonable

very good debate here, never knew it would gain this kind of reaction

As far as my wife is aware, the booking was made over the phone and a company card was used to pay a deposit.

Personally, i dont see how cancelling it, paying a 40% cancellation fee, is fair for those who arnt getting a wage rise this year, its like, heres more money we are throwing away.

But then, this is the same company who seems to think year end bonuses are gained by doing things such as, bringing bread and milk in to work everyday and not by saving the company money or making it more streamlined to free up time for other work.


Yeah i know, they have a real weird view of things. My wife is there management accountant, since she started there some years ago, shes streamlined the way they do their accounts, auditers spend around a week there now instead of 3 weeks because of the mess they used to leave things in.

the company owns about 20 care homes, shes put them all on the same energy provider, saving them money overall.

Shes calculated that she has saved her company hours of time, and money, but yet they dont believe shes entitled to a bonus, because she doesnt, bring in the milk, bread, sweep the snow from the car park etc lol

But wait, they are still paying the actual care home staff a wage rise, because they didnt want them to worry about the state of the company.

You work it out!

[jen_br]

Re: Cancelled Xmas Work Do - Venue being unreasonable

If that is the case, find out the balance, i bet its about 20.00 a person if that.

Most Xmas parties run 19-35 a head pending on the meal, disco etc if its shared.